Long Beach Construction (Planned, Proposed, & Current) - Page 41

ChrisLA · #**801** Posted **Aug 7, 2007, 11:58 AM**

Come on guys, there is a couple things good about the Pike. I'm glad at least we have a movie theater with stadium seating, and I love the Borders Book store. The merry go round, well its okay. I can at least take my 5 year old great niece to ride it when she visiting from out of town. She enjoys it and for me I love the views of the ocean and the city.

I also like the concrete steps when a lot of the patrons hang out and eat ice cream. Game Works, well that's another story. My family seems to like visiting it every so often, to bowl, and play games. Since I'm not much into video games, its doesn't appeal to me. Besides two of my nephews work there, one is an assistant manager and I hate the way the treat him (I keep telling him to find another job, like ESPN at LA LIVE when they open

).

I do realize the design isn't the best, and they need to make some improvements. I think the grass area along shoreline should have retail fronting it. They somehow need to figure out how the blend the complex with Pine Avenue, to have a continuous flow going in this section of downtown LB. Sure its not the best, but its also not the worse either. They just need a few adjustments in the design and bring in some better retail.

One problem I read too is retail looks a the far reaching radius population. They see downtown Long Beach as being isolated. There is nothing but the port to the west of us. San Pedro, and Palos Verdes although 10 mins away (across the bridge) the residents there seem to head west over to the south bay cities for entertainment, and shopping. To these folks LBC is a distance away, and don't see it as a much of a place to visit. They certainly don't have any beaches (although beautiful IMO) most will visit since we have the breakwater that prevents any waves hitting our shores. There are many factors that affect our city. Some also has to do with the poor neighborhoods to the north of downtown. I suspect that is a big factor why some retail won't set up shop.

lbguymetro · #**802** Posted **Aug 7, 2007, 5:21 PM**

the pike either needs to be torn down or have its exterior design changed..more plants....water fountain..etc....i think they should find out what made the grove in LA very successful....im sure its not the chain stores but the ambiance......pike needs a lot of improvement compared to the pine....its dead most of the time!

sopas ej · #**803** Posted **Aug 7, 2007, 6:42 PM**

Regarding the Pike, a friend of mine who moved to Long Beach a few years ago says that he avoids the Pike, his reason being that when he went to the cinemas there after they opened, he and his friend were put off by all the cholos that were there, he told me it was like going to the LA County Fair. The last time I was in that part of Long Beach was when I took my sister's little kids to the Aquarium a few years ago, which was an enjoyable experience, but I'm wondering about the Pike? Is it still a cholofest? Would anyone else rather see movies elsewhere?

Old Town Pasadena also used to have a gang element, during the early 1990s. Old Town at that point was already becoming nicer, but on Friday and Saturday nights you still saw the lowered cars with the cholos and the loud "boom-boom-boom" cruising down the Boulevard. By the late 90s, though, better policing, a crackdown on cruising and I guess the overall more upscale stores and restaurants that started opening up in Old Town Pasadena probably drove that demographic away, there obviously wasn't a reason for them to come to Old Town anymore. If the Pike is still all cholo'd out, I'm wondering if that will change anytime soon...

lbguymetro · #**804** Posted **Aug 7, 2007, 10:05 PM**

let us give long beach credit for having been chosen as one of the top ten downtown turnarounds in the nation...as i would see long beach now, it definitely has improved a lot ...i moved out from long beach and lived in LA for three years...i actually had bought a unit in north hollywood but when i visited downtown long beach one time, i was amazed by the aqua towers that i changed my mind immediately and settled for a one bedroom unit instead of a supposedly three bedroom townhouse in north hollywood...this is all because of location and where in the world can we still find beach properties as affordable as long beach? ....my friends become surprised how beautiful long beach is when they go to the marina...ocean boulevard has also class on its own...and restaurants at pine avenue should never be underestimated..i often mention to them how i once thought of buying a condo unit in downtown LA or hollywood....and without hesitation, they would convince me that long beach is a great and wiser investment.....just a little more time and when long beach transforms itself into a busy shopping and recreational district, it will even be comparable to san diego! at this time, its definitely already a place where you can bring visiting friends from out-of-state..at least it looks way, way, way better than the stretch of hollywood boulevard and downtown LA

, or even other beach places in the vicinity...

LAMetroGuy · #**805** Posted **Aug 7, 2007, 11:18 PM**

I have never seen a cholo at the pike. Maybe on the day your friend went to the movies, they had a cholo convention at the convention center and he just happened to run into them. Either way, is your friend okay? Was he attacked? Crazy!

ChrisLA · #**806** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 3:32 AM**

Me too, I've never seen a cholo fest there either, and I although I haven't been to the movies in a few months at the Pike, its usually where I go 95% of the time since its just a few blocks from my condo. I actually hate going over to the Long Beach Towne center for movies. I feel like I'm vising Disneyland or something, and the maze parking lot along with finding a spot at the crowded center drive me nuts. Over at the Pike I can walk to it or take the free Passport bus over to it.

drisee · #**807** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 3:49 AM**

uhhh...they don't call it gangworks for nothing guys.

sopas ej, you give a great description of why people don't seem to visit downtown long beach in general. people really do have a bad impression and rightfully so. but, it is getting better with time but the city needs to just keep raising the bar. that way like pasadena we can keep sending a new message and get people to rethink the downtown. definitely not impossible...with a few great projects and some good pr it can happen as it has with a ton of other cities around the world that used to be crap.

for the pike if they're going to keep it they should at least fill in the cross streets. what other outdoor type mall has something like that where cars run through. it's the worst piece of architectural planning i've seen in a long time and it's very LA to bend over backwards for the car. irvine spectrum, the block, fashion island, which one of these developments has cars driving through it?! at least start with that, if not then go with my other solution of blowing it up and starting over

i do like the movies though. big blockbusters are never sold out on opening nights due to most people being scared to go there...i rarely have a bad experience there and see movies there every couple of weeks.

LAMetroGuy · #**808** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 6:07 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drisee

uhhh...they don't call it gangworks for nothing guys.

sopas ej, you give a great description of why people don't seem to visit downtown long beach in general. people really do have a bad impression and rightfully so.

I disagree 100%. I frequently visit the pike and I never see anything close to what sopas ej describes. I agree that the design is horrible (it was developed by a developer who only develops in suburban developments not urban developments). Just because people that visit this establishment are not all white doesn't make it "gangworks". That is a very ignorant thing to say... peoples style of dress, urban or whatever, doesn't automatically make them gangsters (i.e. cholos). You have to remember that Long Beach is a very diverse city and its gathering places will reflect that. If you don't like it move to one of the square states to the East. One thing is that the Blue line brings in lots of out of towners. Once LA Live is built, many of what you call "thugs" will use the Blue Line to travel North rather than South to the Pike. This way, the Pike area will stay clensed of diversity and cholo free!

ChrisLA · #**809** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 6:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAMetroGuy

I disagree 100%. I frequently visit the pike and I never see anything close to what sopas ej describes. I Just because people that visit this establishment are not all white doesn't make it "gangworks". That is a very ignorant thing to say... peoples style of dress, urban or whatever, doesn't automatically make them gangsters (i.e. cholos). You have to remember that Long Beach is a very diverse city and its gathering places will reflect that.

BINGO!

I don't have a problem with those who visit, and I visit GameWorks occassionaly since I have young nieces and nephews. Besides I have two that work there. Since I'm not into video games, its not really my cup of tea. What I do like is the bowling alley sometimes. But overall I've never had a problem over there. Granted its an establishment that has two bars, and any place where there is alcohol served you're bound to have problems every now and then. Now since my one of my nephews worked at GameWorks since it opened a few years back, I talk with him about those things. There hasn't been anything major happend, other than some drunk being kicked out for fighting at the bar.

drisee · #**810** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 6:35 AM**

LAMetroGuy...are you serious when you say you've never seen anything close to what sopas ej describes?? With all due respect you're either just getting lucky with the times/days you go or you're blind to it.

About a week ago somebody got shot right across from the Pike in front of the convention center and yes it was due to gang violence. I've personally witnessed gang disputes go down during broad daylight right on Pine. Walking back from the movies i've seen guys throw bottles at other cars and threaten violence. It would be ignorant of me NOT to recognize this as related to gangs. I didn't give it the name of Gangworks but it in my eyes it sure does fit most of the time. Hell, talk to a local cop next time you see one and ask them about it. They're constantly checking tats/gang affiliations.

The fact is there just aren't a lot of what i'll call "classy" people strolling around downtown long beach on any given night, especially the weekends. Sure, they're not all gangsters but you certainly don't get a friendly feeling. That's why i talk about raising the bar. Don't get me wrong i love the diversity, but the diversity can also be classy and right now it's not.

LAMetroGuy · #**811** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 2:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drisee

LAMetroGuy...are you serious when you say you've never seen anything close to what sopas ej describes?? With all due respect you're either just getting lucky with the times/days you go or you're blind to it.

I think it is the otherway around... you have been UNLUCKY. I am VERY serious... I just went to see the simpsons this weekend and then had ice cream at cold stone and there was no sign of any type of gang activity. I think you are just paranoid. Everyday, i ride my bike through that area and I see nothing as you describe. You yourself said that you only visit every couple of weeks. I'm there almost every day.

drisee · #**812** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 3:57 PM**

Sure, i'm paranoid.
http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_6439...ce=most_viewed

Sure it's only one incident but i've been witness to quite a few more. I think you're just in denial or do PR for the city. I feel like i'm listening to Bush as he argues about the war going well.

The least you could do is not misquote me. I said i go to the movies there every couple of weeks but i'm in the area almost every day.

If we want to agree to disagree that's fine by me but facts are facts.

LB Life07 · #**813** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 5:33 PM**

I have to agree with LAMG I've lived in Long Beach for a while now, started off living near PCH and LB Blvd. and now Live near Redondo and 6th, I've seen a fair share of gang element in my old hood, nothing that goes down at the pike resembles that to me!! You may sometimes get young people who get a little drunk when it's party time! it's typical of the youth these days especially when there's alcohol around!! I've seen it in everyone from black,white, hispanic, and asian!! I think it's unfair to categorize all young ethnic groups who happen to be acting a little roudy as a gang! sometimes they are just a group of friends behaving in an ignorant manner!! Im not justifying either groups actions......I just hate the fact that sometimes it comes off as every young group of black or hispanics are viewed as a gang.....young groups of whites arn't really ever looked at like that....there just a group of youths having fun and it sometimes get out of hand!! Sure you have occaisonal gang members pass through!! hey....we live in the LA area, you can't stop it....I've seen these types at the Santa Monica pier!! I think it's also good to remember that not everyone who fires a gun at another person is a member of a gang!! Sometimes it's just a person with a gun who got angry for what ever reason and decided to shoot it!! anyway even if there are occaisonal gangs that pass through....these youths arn't going out with the intensions to just always start trouble and ruin your night....a lot of times there out just trying to have fun like you!! I go to the movie theatre all the time and don't feel in danger, I go to borders and walk down pine avenue!! That area of LB to me is a safe area especially with the police presence thats around. You can't leave your house and expect not to have an occaisonal bad experience, it shouldn't prevent you from traveling to specific areas because you miss out on the good things these places have to offer!!! You just have to be able to recognize when things are getting out of hand and remove yourself from these situations while you can!!

LAMetroGuy · #**814** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 7:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drisee

Sure, i'm paranoid.
http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_6439...ce=most_viewed

Sure it's only one incident.

You've got that right!

And you did say you went to the movies every couple of weeks, that is not a missquote... what i didn't say is that you go everyday... to which I don't know unless you state it (I can't read minds) anyway, that is way off topic. One incident is just that... ONE... and that is a fact!

To say that the pike is gang infested is redicoulous, like LB Life07 said, some youths who are in urban drag will act up every now and then, does that make them gangsters??? I don't think so.

LAMetroGuy · #**815** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 7:24 PM**

Not sure about this:

Photo Credit: Brett-Livingstone Strong (www.blsart.com)

sopas ej · #**816** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 8:10 PM**

Oops double post.

sopas ej · #**817** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 8:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by drisee

LAMetroGuy...are you serious when you say you've never seen anything close to what sopas ej describes?? With all due respect you're either just getting lucky with the times/days you go or you're blind to it.

About a week ago somebody got shot right across from the Pike in front of the convention center and yes it was due to gang violence. I've personally witnessed gang disputes go down during broad daylight right on Pine. Walking back from the movies i've seen guys throw bottles at other cars and threaten violence. It would be ignorant of me NOT to recognize this as related to gangs. I didn't give it the name of Gangworks but it in my eyes it sure does fit most of the time. Hell, talk to a local cop next time you see one and ask them about it. They're constantly checking tats/gang affiliations.

The fact is there just aren't a lot of what i'll call "classy" people strolling around downtown long beach on any given night, especially the weekends. Sure, they're not all gangsters but you certainly don't get a friendly feeling. That's why i talk about raising the bar. Don't get me wrong i love the diversity, but the diversity can also be classy and right now it's not.

I will concur with drisee, that regardless of whether my friend saw real cholos/gangbangers or just people that looked like them, the bottom line is, there's an unpleasant element that downtown Long Beach has yet to completely shake. Downtown LB has certainly improved a lot since the early 1990s; I'm an alum of CSULB class of '94 and downtown LB back then left plenty more to be desired. I think something needs to be done so that downtown Long Beach will also attract the locals of Long Beach who would otherwise shop in Lakewood or Cerritos or Orange County or hang out elsewhere. For many people in Los Angeles, Long Beach is considered out of the way. Yes, it'd be great to attract people from other parts of the metro area into Long Beach the way people go into Santa Monica, Pasadena, etc., but if even some Long Beach residents avoid downtown, then how can you expect others to sing Long Beach's praises? Don't get me wrong, when I was going to school in LB, I always thought Long Beach was one of the LA area's undiscovered secrets.

Regarding LB Life07's comment about seeing gangbanger types at the Santa Monica Pier, well, that's been going on for decades now. I learned in my teen-years that the Santa Monica Pier at night was the place to avoid, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's improved now. The Santa Monica Beach can also be full of those types.

LAMetroGuy · #**818** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 8:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej

regardless of whether my friend saw real cholos/gangbangers or just people that looked like them, the bottom line is, there's an unpleasant element that downtown Long Beach has yet to completely shake.

That is one sad satement, I feel sorry for you. Ever heard of the Bill of Rights? So if someone just "looked like them" they should be banned from the Pike? WTF??? Enough of this, I'm over you and drisee generalizing based and profiling and complaining about living in an urban downtown yet complaining with urban grit. Move to Cerritos, ohh wait... there are Vietnamese gangs at the Cerritos Mall (or do they just look like them) maybe Montana would be best?

LB Life07 · #**819** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 10:14 PM**

getting back on subject here!! The Statue of Freedom.......is this supposed to be something similar to the Statue of Liberty!! If so why would we put something like that up....it has no such meaning as the Statue of Liberty as in the fact that it was a gift from another country....I dont think we need something like this, I don't think that it will add anything to the city!!

sopas ej · #**820** Posted **Aug 8, 2007, 10:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAMetroGuy

That is one sad satement, I feel sorry for you. Ever heard of the Bill of Rights? So if someone just "looked like them" they should be banned from the Pike? WTF??? Enough of this, I'm over you and drisee generalizing based and profiling and complaining about living in an urban downtown yet complaining with urban grit. Move to Cerritos, ohh wait... there are Vietnamese gangs at the Cerritos Mall (or do they just look like them) maybe Montana would be best?

I don't know why you're getting your panties all up in a bunch. I never said anything about banning anyone from anywhere. Living in an urban environment doesn't and shouldn't necessarily mean having to put up with, in your words, urban grit, however you define that. And you're missing the point; not all Hispanics are cholos, nor do all Hispanics LOOK like cholos. But don't you see how if you see a bunch of people who look like cholos or gangbangers or whatever, that might put some people off? And if these people who look like that are just like everyone else, why don't you see people who look like that, in Belmont Shore?