Predict the result of the 2019 federal election

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

An underlying truth is that most Canadians think dairy prices are ridiculously high in Canada, no matter their political leanings.

Dairy and wireless service prices are ridiculously high in Canada.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by khabibulin

Dairy and wireless service prices are ridiculously high in Canada.

The CBC was reporting on a poll that asked something like "do you support supply management?", with 70% or so being somewhat or strongly in favour.

This is like asking: "do you want more services?" "yes" and "do you want lower taxes?" "also yes".

I bet if you asked most Canadians if they want dairy supply management OR cheaper prices they would go with the cheaper prices. There is a question of quality too but the fact is we pay more for a given quality of product. Dairy is cheap in many European countries that have good quality products.

The only reason for the current system seems to be the classic case of concentrated benefits and diffuse costs. The people who stand to lose a substantial percent of their income will lobby for special treatment, but it is much harder to coordinate the wider public to lobby against one of hundreds of similar minor policies that drive up the cost of living a little bit.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

There a large Italian community in Vancouver (ever been to Commercial Drive or East Van?) and I grew up in the same city you live in.

Vancouver does not have a "large" Italian community.

[samne]

Dairy and wireless service prices are ridiculously high in Canada.

Dairy...does not make that huge of a dent. Maybe save $5-$10 a month for real milk consumers.

Wireless rates are absolutely insane. I don't think most Canadians realize how high they are compared to other places in the world. They just accept that this is the cost.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by Docere

Vancouver does not have a "large" Italian community.

By population, it's the third largest Italian community in Canada, after Montreal and Toronto. There are areas of Burnaby and East Van where it has had a significant impact. Percentage-wise it is smaller than other places in Canada. We can get into semantics here about the definition of "large" but that's not relevant to my original point.

On a side note, this has led me to discover that the Sault and Thunder Bay have the highest numbers per capita. Odd that they chose to settle there, but in line with my experiences growing up in that area.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by samne

Dairy...does not make that huge of a dent. Maybe save $5-$10 a month for real milk consumers.

Wireless rates are absolutely insane. I don't think most Canadians realize how high they are compared to other places in the world. They just accept that this is the cost.

True, but the price of dairy, especially cheese, is a common gripe. I would buy more if it cost less.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

On a side note, this has led me to discover that Sudbury and Thunder Bay have the highest numbers per capita. Odd that they chose to settle there, but in line with my experiences growing up in that area.

Presumably people settled where there were jobs for them, which were plentiful in the mills and mines of northern Ontario.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

True, but the price of dairy, especially cheese, is a common gripe. I would buy more if it cost less.

As you suggest it is a lot more than just milk. It impacts anything containing milk fat. It also goes beyond grocery stores; if you go out for a restaurant meal or order a pizza you are paying these higher prices too.

Canada's dairy industry produces around $15B of products annually that are mostly consumed domestically, so around $400 per person per year. There are probably lots of families out there buy $1,000 in dairy products a year and get by on $60,000 total. To them, saving $300 or $500 a year would be significant.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by someone123

The only reason for the current system seems to be the classic case of concentrated benefits and diffuse costs. The people who stand to lose a substantial percent of their income will lobby for special treatment.

The reason for continuing supply management is same as the reason for maintaining the Taxi medallion system.

The current owners of license/permit/whatever paid many times more in the secondary market. For farmers, the Dairy supply license is their retirement nest egg. Losing the ability to sell this license on the secondary market will result in thousands of dollars lost to the farmers net worth.

The question is actually how much the government should cover/insure the farmers losses as a result of additional Dairy quota/product being allowed into the market.

Some would say the government owes nothing to the farmers because the secondary market is to blame. But this doesn't make for good politicking.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Cage

The reason for continuing supply management is same as the reason for maintaining the Taxi medallion system.

The current owners of license/permit/whatever paid many times more in the secondary market. For farmers, the Dairy supply license is their retirement nest egg. Losing the ability to sell this license on the secondary market will result in thousands of dollars lost to the farmers net worth.

The question is actually how much the government should cover/insure the farmers losses as a result of additional Dairy quota/product being allowed into the market.

Some would say the government owes nothing to the farmers because the secondary market is to blame. But this doesn't make for good politicking.

I'd say food security is a little more important than a taxi ride. If people are OK with Canada not having its own source of dairy products then get rid of supply management. We also protect poultry, are you OK with not having a Canadian source for that too? Hopefully we can survive on canola and non-durum wheat.

[The Macallan]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'd say food security is a little more important than a taxi ride. If people are OK with Canada not having its own source of dairy products then get rid of supply management. We also protect poultry, are you OK with not having a Canadian source for that too? Hopefully we can survive on canola and non-durum wheat.

Your argument is very similar to Trump’s justification for a tariff on steel imports. Is it “insulting “ to, say, Wisconsin?

And are Canadian farmers so inefficient that they will be wiped out by imports?

I can certainly remember lots of folks claiming the Canadian wine industry would be done in by US imports, in the debates prior to the NAFTA agreement. It doesn’t seem to have happened.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by The Macallan

Your argument is very similar to Trump’s justification for a tariff on steel imports. Is it “insulting “ to, say, Wisconsin?

And are Canadian farmers so inefficient that they will be wiped out by imports?

I can certainly remember lots of folks claiming the Canadian wine industry would be done in by US imports, in the debates prior to the NAFTA agreement. It doesn’t seem to have happened.

Bad example, the wine industry is super-protected.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by whatnext

I'd say food security is a little more important than a taxi ride. If people are OK with Canada not having its own source of dairy products then get rid of supply management. We also protect poultry, are you OK with not having a Canadian source for that too? Hopefully we can survive on canola and non-durum wheat.

Why not supply manage every thing then? Communism for all!

It cannot be said enough, anyone who supports supply management is economically illiterate.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Why not supply manage every thing then? Communism for all!

It cannot be said enough, anyone who supports supply management is economically illiterate.

Depends on how they cost out the externalities.

[vid]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

There a large Italian community in Vancouver (ever been to Commercial Drive or East Van?) and I grew up in the same city you live in.

Depends on where you lived. I grew up across the street from the Bova family (of Lucky Sevens and Bova Auto fame), they were stereotypical southern Italians. I never saw their furniture but I'm sure it was covered in plastic. They had lots of gold chains. Not particularly wealthy (I grew up in social housing) but not poor. Jumbo Gardens has a lot of well off Italians and Ukrainians. They decorated the shit out of their yard at Christmastime.

1/6th of Thunder Bay's city council speaks Italian as a first language.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Depends on how they cost out the externalities.

I'd be OK with tariffs on American products to counter their own poor subsidy practises, and applying the same quality standards on them as Canadian products (obviously). But supply management is absolutely not the correct way to deal with the 'problem' and anyone claiming otherwise is either ignorant or under the thumb of the dairy farmers (or a dairy farmer themselves).

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Depends on how they cost out the externalities.

It depends on who you want providing your milk, chicken and eggs, and how you want your food produced.

Personally, I would take family farms and reasonably humane agricultural practices over nameless corporate farming conglomerates 1000% of the time........

[travis3000]

I could care less about the cost of milk, I dont consume dairy at all. With that said, is there a quality difference between US milk and Canadian milk?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I'd be OK with tariffs on American products to counter their own poor subsidy practises, and applying the same quality standards on them as Canadian products (obviously). But supply management is absolutely not the correct way to deal with the 'problem' and anyone claiming otherwise is either ignorant or under the thumb of the dairy farmers (or a dairy farmer themselves).

What do you want? Government cheese like they have in the US, a butter mountain like they have in Europe, let a 15 billion dollar industry go under, taxpayer subsidies like they have in most countries? Almost every sector of the economy is subsidized or protected somehow. It isn't a perfect system, but any replacement should be more thoughtfully done then trying to respond to Baby Don's every tantrum.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by travis3000

I could care less about the cost of milk, I dont consume dairy at all. With that said, is there a quality difference between US milk and Canadian milk?

Anything coming in to Canada from the USA or elswhere would need to meet Canadian standards.