TriMet/Metro Southwest Corridor Planning (Portland to Bridgeport Village)

[hat]

I very much hope you're right. I don't know enough about the politics in Washington Co. What evidence do you have to support this claim?

[bvpcvm]

I work over there, so I see these streets every day; I would LOVE having the option of taking MAX to work.

It would require some serious grade separation, but PCC Sylvania has something like 50,000 students and would be a huge draw for ridership. Unfortunately, like OHSU, it's on top of a hill, so some tunneling would be necessary. But even if you skip that section and come south from Barbur, 68th would only require one bridge to even out the terrain; 72nd would require two, and is further from the string of office buildings going in in that area (but also closer to Costco and the new Walmart - but they're probably not much of a draw for MAX riders).

On the other hand, I'm sure PCC will pushing more and more toward online classes, so investing another half-billion or so in a tunnel might not be worth it. And now that I think of it, even Barbur has some pretty steep sections. Oh, fuck it, just tunnel the whole thing.

[hat]

If LRT is not ruled out these next couple years due to BRT talk, I hope that a tunnel through the hill to OHSU is decided against for a few reasons. Aside from the expense, first, it may prove unnecessary. A stop near the Gibbs ped. bridge would be equally effective (and allow OHSU to expand further along the waterfront).

Second, any future expansion of the transit system after the SW line will need to start considering other alignments downtown. Congestion along the transit mall and steel br. is already causing headaches. See:

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/...apology_t.html

If the SW line runs down Barbur and Naito, there is a potential to combine the lines from the South into one below grade. Any further local travel downtown, i.e. to PSU or the Pearl can be achieved through streetcars along existing alignments including the 5th and 6th ave malls. Note: I've purposely left out stops in hopes of others developing this idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/10680740534/

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by hat

If LRT is not ruled out these next couple years due to BRT talk, I hope that a tunnel through the hill to OHSU is decided against for a few reasons. Aside from the expense, first, it may prove unnecessary. A stop near the Gibbs ped. bridge would be equally effective (and allow OHSU to expand further along the waterfront).

Second, any future expansion of the transit system after the SW line will need to start considering other alignments downtown. Congestion along the transit mall and steel br. is already causing headaches. See:

http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/...apology_t.html

If the SW line runs down Barbur and Naito, there is a potential to combine the lines from the South into one below grade. Any further local travel downtown, i.e. to PSU or the Pearl can be achieved through streetcars along existing alignments including the 5th and 6th ave malls. Note: I've purposely left out stops in hopes of others developing this idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/101004589@N07/10680740534/

I don't think the line will run down Naito. For one, there is an existing viaduct that is probably not seismically up to code, nor is it designed to handle trains.

Actually, there really isn't any room in the South Portland n'hood to run the MAX. Don't forget, it has to branch off from 5th/6th avenue, although they built a giant solar panel array in the way. So who knows what will happen? It would very difficult, to say the least, if they tried to branch off from South Waterfront, as the line would have to steeply climb up a steep hill that is heavily developed.

It will be a very challenging line to design, methinks. No doubt about it!

[NJD]

^ however Naito (around NCNM) has been on Portland's rebuild list for decades now... they want to completely reroute Ross Island traffic and return to a neighborhood street grid. MAX could be part of a larger rebuild effort, or at least a catalyst for it. As far as a subway, on the other hand, I don't see that happening...

[bvpcvm]

I really think it would make far more sense to branch off the Orange line in SOWA at the new OHSU building. Keep going south, with a short tunnel under the Ross Island bridge to get the line up to Macadam (underground from Woods to Curry or so), then south on Macadam, underground again at Bancroft to cross under I-5 and swing west toward Barbur, coming above ground on Barbur just south of Hamilton. That allows the grade from Macadam to Barbur to be more gentle and avoids wiping out a bunch of development. South of there, just rebuild Barbur to accommodate LRT. The road probably ought to be rebuilt for seismic reasons anyway. Even rebuilding Barbur along with those two short tunnels (but no need for any underground stations) should be cheaper than tunneling all the way from Burlingame to OHSU. And having the southwest line merge with the Orange in SOWA brings other advantages: gets people from SW closer to the tram, expands access to SOWA, less disruption downtown when connecting the SW line.

But, this being Portland, they'll probably build it all at grade, with multiple single track segments (saving $$$!) and connect with the Orange in such a way that there are multiple sharp turns and crossovers.

[bvpcvm]

Tigard transit initiative touches a nerve

Traffic and congestion are the top concerns of Tigard residents according to municipal surveys. But next March city voters will be asked to stop the solution being prepared by regional leaders, a new high-capacity transit corridor between Portland and Tualatin. It is supported by the Multnomah County Commission and the city of Portland.

Ballot Measure 34-210 opposes new high-capacity corridor projects in Tigard. It was placed on the March 11 special election ballot by activists opposed to Metro’s Southwest Corridor Project. They do not believe that either transit option being studied — a new light-rail line or a bus rapid-transit line with dedicated lanes — would reduce congestion. Instead, they think it will be used to increase density throughout the corridor.

full article here

[philopdx]

"The most recent survey found that 59 percent of Tigard residents think high-capacity transit would reduce congestion. That was not the most popular remedy, however. In the survey released last week, 22 percent of respondents favored widening roads and adding more lanes. Only 3 percent favored more bus service and public transportation. And only 1 percent favored light rail."

This is a perfect summation of the cognitive dissonance in the suburban brain - [We think 'high capacity transit' will reduce traffic, but we don't want 'Light Rail' or 'Buses'.]

It's a little bit like people supporting the 'Affordable Care Act' but detesting 'Obamacare!". Or, people not wanting 'government' interfering with their 'Medicare'.

Danger Will Robinson - Does Not Compute!

[pdxstreetcar]

Its hard to have a rational conversation about traffic and development with people who are a complete slave to their sacred almighty car. What causes congestion is 100 people making 100 trips in 100 cars (each taking about 250 sq ft min), not 100 people combining their trips into a SINGLE vehicle. Prioritizing high occupant vehicles gives people an incentive to take the most space efficient mode and to not clog up the road with everyone in their own road wasting car. This shouldn't be difficult to understand but apparently it is to people who cant comprehend any other way of moving or living.

Welcome to the suburban mentality where everyone ELSE is making traffic and parking worse (nevermind those "other people" are living exactly just like them), but oh no, they themselves can't possibly be contributing to traffic and parking problems with their sacred car and lifestyle.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by philopdx

"The most recent survey found that 59 percent of Tigard residents think high-capacity transit would reduce congestion. That was not the most popular remedy, however. In the survey released last week, 22 percent of respondents favored widening roads and adding more lanes. Only 3 percent favored more bus service and public transportation. And only 1 percent favored light rail."

This is a perfect summation of the cognitive dissonance in the suburban brain - [We think 'high capacity transit' will reduce traffic, but we don't want 'Light Rail' or 'Buses'.]

It's a little bit like people supporting the 'Affordable Care Act' but detesting 'Obamacare!". Or, people not wanting 'government' interfering with their 'Medicare'.

Danger Will Robinson - Does Not Compute!

I think you misread the article. 59% are in favor of high capacity transit, but the opponents don't seem to believe that study is accurate. I have a feeling the Tigard measure will crash and burn because the vast majority of people I know who live there, including many who have said they won't commute by HCT because it doesn't go where they need, still want it.

My old boss has told me he wants MAX out there not to commute, but because it would make it easier for he and his wife to access nightlife in downtown Portland without needing to take cabs every weekend. His wife has mentioned she'd like it not to use for her daily commute, but to use on the days she has meetings in downtown Portland so that she doesn't need to drive into the city.

They still live far enough from any proposed downtown Tigard station that they'd probably use it as a park and ride more than anything, but they're not the types that I'd have expected to support MAX or BRT coming to their neighborhood until they offered their (surprisingly positive) opinions of having the option available.

They're not the only Tigard residents I've talked to about it, but 2/3 of people I know in Tigard seem to look at it as a positive for their city and their property values.

[bvpcvm]

Washington County rapid transit forum scheduled amid Tigard ballot measure battle

An upcoming vote in Tigard has the potential to derail years of planning for beefed-up public transportation in southeast Washington County.

Amid this backdrop, Washington County Democrats are hosting a rapid transit forum with elected officials and activists in King City Wed. Jan. 8. The forum will be held 7 p.m. at the King City Club House, 15245 SW 116th Ave..

Under the ongoing Southwest Corridor Plan, elected officials have narrowed down the future of public transportation from southwest Portland to Tigard and Tualatin. The choices are between a light rail line and bus rapid transit system, with uses dedicated lanes and fewer stops than a typical bus route.

The next phase of this plan involves identifying where high-capacity transit would go through. That comes down to Naito Parkway or Barbur Boulevard on the Portland side and Hall Boulevard or SW 72nd Avenue on the Tigard/Tualatin side. It also involves choosing station stops and identifying ways to fund this project.

I know it's early, but those route alternatives look practically engineered to be slow. WTF, Metro???

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

I know it's early, but those route alternatives look practically engineered to be slow. WTF, Metro???

No kidding. What's that big deviation in the route? Washington Square Mall? Don't know the area all that well.

Although... is that straight line south of downtown a tunnel under OHSU?

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

No kidding. What's that big deviation in the route? Washington Square Mall? Don't know the area all that well.

No, that's only "downtown" Tigard. I think Metro is purposely depicting that as a major deviation to their preferred alignment (through the Tigard Triangle) so as to eliminate it early on in the process. There's very little there to warrant such a major detour from the higher densities along I-5.

Washington Square is further north and apparently not an option for this alignment, but could be better served by upgrading WES into an extension of the MAX Red Line. That also would improve service to "downtown" Tigard without turning the SW Corridor into a pretzel.

[tworivers]

Depressing. More suburban regressive idiocy, this time courtesy of just over half of the 36% of Tigard voters who participated in the election.

Officials cautious about Tigard vote results
Created on Wednesday, 12 March 2014 12:22 | Written by Jim Redden |

Elected officials in the region reacted cautiously to the apparent passage of a Tigard ballot measure that could block the Southwest Corridor Plan on Tuesday.

By Wednesday morning, Ballot Measure 34-210 was leading by 193 votes out of the 9,803 that had been counted. It would put Tigard on record against a new high capacity transit line — a key feature of the plan — and require another public vote before one could be built.

Rest of story here.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by tworivers

Depressing. More suburban regressive idiocy, this time courtesy of just over half of the 36% of Tigard voters who participated in the election.

Officials cautious about Tigard vote results
Created on Wednesday, 12 March 2014 12:22 | Written by Jim Redden |

Elected officials in the region reacted cautiously to the apparent passage of a Tigard ballot measure that could block the Southwest Corridor Plan on Tuesday.

By Wednesday morning, Ballot Measure 34-210 was leading by 193 votes out of the 9,803 that had been counted. It would put Tigard on record against a new high capacity transit line — a key feature of the plan — and require another public vote before one could be built.

Rest of story here.

It's as if the people in Tigard think no one commutes to downtown and that there is no traffic issue with I-5.

[hat]

I think it requires a vote before even an assessment can be made, i.e. no money can be spent evaluating future transit. Please correct with more detail if this is wrong.

A MAX to the Barbur TC would still be possible regardless of a vote in Tigard. That would be unfortunate.

[65MAX]

It would be very easy to bypass Tigard altogether by staying on the east side of I-5 after a PCC station. Just go directly to Kruse Way then jog over to the west side of the freeway at Lower Boones Ferry (Tualatin).

That said, if a MAX funding vote was on the ballot in Tigard, there's a very good chance it would pass anyway. They just need to vote on it during a REAL election (November in an even-numbered year), not these off-season elections that draw out a disproportionately high number of anti-progress whack jobs. A majority of Tigarders still favor bringing MAX to their city.

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by hat

I think it requires a vote before even an assessment can be made, i.e. no money can be spent evaluating future transit. Please correct with more detail if this is wrong.

A MAX to the Barbur TC would still be possible regardless of a vote in Tigard. That would be unfortunate.

A problem is that as I understand it the measure also requires annual letters to various agencies remind them Tigard is opposed to any new HCT.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by davehogan

A problem is that as I understand it the measure also requires annual letters to various agencies remind them Tigard is opposed to any new HCT.

That's just meaningless, because anybody who knows ANYTHING about Tigard knows that the city is EXTREMELY pro-light rail. They've been waiting for their turn to hook up to MAX for years, and in fact, they've already identified 7 distinct potential HCT station areas within the city and done a significant amount of planning around those stations. Metro knows this and they could plan a route through Tigard without Tigard's "official" approval, regardless of some idiotic letter the city is coerced into mailing out. I guarantee you, when the time comes for a vote to fund MAX through Tigard, it will pass.

[dubu]

theres already a subway that goes threw the hill just have wes light rail and have the line skip the sunshine tc because that slows it down a lot. maybe just get rid of that tc.