The "me-too" movement

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Interesting comment. Thanks for proving my point.

You didn't address the point I was making either, in effect proving my point. Yes, he quotes all these papers and books and then he proceeds to misquote these works. And when he is called on it, he insists that we read the book front to cover as if he had bothered to read the whole book himself. He may have read the book, but judging by how he misquotes the book and then will defend his misquoting, it seems that he doesn't actually remember reading the book.

Rather, I think he may have read the books, but he is intentionally misquoting books because he needs to weave a story into his sermons.

[Delusio Cogno]

Peterson defends the right of individual choice as the highest good. Social justice believes the choice of the individual is second to the effect those choices have on others. The baking of a cake falls under social justice as no one has a right to deny services in their business unless there is proof that providing services would be damaging to the person requesting the service. Bars have the right to refuse service to minors. As Peterson does not recognize that social justice will ever supersede the right of individual choice, by extension of his logic, I expect he considers bars banning minors as a transgression against the individual.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Delusio Cogno

Peterson defends the right of individual choice as the highest good. Social justice believes the choice of the individual is second to the effect those choices have on others. The baking of a cake falls under social justice as no one has a right to deny services in their business unless there is proof that providing services would be damaging to the person requesting the service. Bars have the right to refuse service to minors. As Peterson does not recognize that social justice will ever supersede the right of individual choice, by extension of his logic, I expect he considers bars banning minors as a transgression against the individual.

By extension of that same logic an individual riding the train should be able to watch porn on their phone in spite of those around them including children.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Since we’ve had so many discussions about him I thought it worth sharing this rare moment when Jordan Peterson admits there is no difference between refusing to bake a wedding cake for a black couple and refusing to bake a cake for a gay couple.

It's a cold hard fact that there is no difference between refusing to bake a wedding cake for [people of legally-protected Category A] and refusing to bake a cake for [people of legally-protected Category B].

In both cases, your only option is to invoke the artist's prerogative to refuse to be commissioned for trivial, personal, "I don't feel that one" reasons, and argue that every one of your cakes is a custom-made creation.

If on the other hand it's a standardized good or service that you're offering, they're you're totally out of luck if you want to discriminate: it's illegal.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

It's a cold hard fact that there is no difference between refusing to bake a wedding cake for [people of legally-protected Category A] and refusing to bake a cake for [people of legally-protected Category B].

In both cases, your only option is to invoke the artist's prerogative to refuse to be commissioned for trivial, personal, "I don't feel that one" reasons, and argue that every one of your cakes is a custom-made creation.

If on the other hand it's a standardized good or service that you're offering, they're you're totally out of luck if you want to discriminate: it's illegal.

Tell that to the free speech martyrs like Jordan Peterson. Everything can be defended by invoking free speech. No one’s allowed to tell him what to say or do.

[Corndogger]

This is from a Verified YouTuber with 184K subscribers.

Black Guy's Experience At A Jordan B Peterson Event in Nashville

• Video Link

Anthony Brian Logan
Published on Jun 18, 2018

I recently attended a Jordan B. Peterson event in Nashville Tennessee. Obviously, I’m a black guy and my girlfriend who came with me is also black. Some people think it’s strange for us to attend an event featuring him and also the very popular YouTuber Dave Rubin. Allegations of racism and misogyny seem to follow Peterson wherever he goes. That’s not the person I concluded he was from what I saw and read about him before making the trip to Nashville to see him live, nor is it what I took away from the event. Also, I was told that Peterson’s “supporters” are weird, beta-males who hate different races of people and women. But many people in the crowd were married. I would go as far to say that most of the crowd was married. The crowd was majority white, yes, but not one time did I feel uncomfortable or out of place. Skin color was irrelevant at the Ryman Auditorium that night. It was all about a gathering of people of like-minds coming to see a person they admire for one reason or another deliver an awesome lecture. I would most certainly go again and if you’re on the fence, I advise you do the same!

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Corndogger

This is from a Verified YouTuber with 184K subscribers.

Black Guy's Experience At A Jordan B Peterson Event in Nashville

• Video Link

Anthony Brian Logan
Published on Jun 18, 2018

I recently attended a Jordan B. Peterson event in Nashville Tennessee. Obviously, I’m a black guy and my girlfriend who came with me is also black. Some people think it’s strange for us to attend an event featuring him and also the very popular YouTuber Dave Rubin. Allegations of racism and misogyny seem to follow Peterson wherever he goes. That’s not the person I concluded he was from what I saw and read about him before making the trip to Nashville to see him live, nor is it what I took away from the event. Also, I was told that Peterson’s “supporters” are weird, beta-males who hate different races of people and women. But many people in the crowd were married. I would go as far to say that most of the crowd was married. The crowd was majority white, yes, but not one time did I feel uncomfortable or out of place. Skin color was irrelevant at the Ryman Auditorium that night. It was all about a gathering of people of like-minds coming to see a person they admire for one reason or another deliver an awesome lecture. I would most certainly go again and if you’re on the fence, I advise you do the same!

Look everyone! He can't be a bigot because a black guy likes him!

There is no surer sign that you are a bigot than when these words are spoken.

Edit: And that's before we even get to the fact he is wearing a MAGA hat.

[mousquet]

Some "niggers" in the US are awful bigots.
Some converted to Islam. They thought they would find some better fate in there.
I swear I read some others claiming they should follow the "white race" that's supposedly better, according to themselves.
Incredible. It's truly appalling. You'll never hear a French Black person speak like that, and I'm proud about it.

I never said a thing to these people, cause I don't have words to help them, and I'm nothing much anyway, although I've got an idea of the sickness they've been suffering from.

I just hope people talk to each other, then things get better in the end.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Look everyone! He can't be a bigot because a black guy likes him!

There is no surer sign that you are a bigot than when these words are spoken.

Edit: And that's before we even get to the fact he is wearing a MAGA hat.

I knew that would be your reaction. You didn't even watch the video nor did you read the caption to his video. You went into instantaneous attack mode because your view of the world is being shown to be incorrect. Piss all over Peterson all you want if it makes you happy but it still won't make you right.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Look everyone! He can't be a bigot because a black guy likes him!

There is no surer sign that you are a bigot than when these words are spoken.

Peterson says some very astute things on certain issues, and he says some patently idiotic things on other issues. He's a creepy, opportunistic ideologue who, most notably, has managed to convince a generation of alt-right fanboy acolytes that SJWs portend the second coming of the Stalinist gulags instead of what they actually are, which is a leftist identitarian overreach currently in the process of a slow collapse both under the weight of its own absurdity and due to the natural, healthy pushback of, yes, initially the hard right, but now more and more, the mushy middle.

Oh, he also has 35,000 hours of videos about the Old Testament. Or something. Apparently certain of his disciples find them inspiring, and claim that they now have a better outlook on life.

This makes him a self-help guru as well. Which is fair enough. But the one thing he definitely isn't, though, is a bigot. Refusing to be compelled to call a person by an arbitrarily self-chosen third-person pronoun far beyond the bounds of holistically evolved grammatical convention, i.e. to have one's speech radically prescribed (instead of merely proscribed--obviously not the same thing--Peterson is 100% right about this) isn't bigotry or hatred.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Peterson says some very astute things on certain issues, and he says some patently idiotic things on other issues. He's a creepy, opportunistic ideologue who, most notably, has managed to convince a generation of alt-right fanboy acolytes that SJWs portend the second coming of the Stalinist gulags instead of what they actually are, which is a leftist identitarian overreach currently in the process of a slow collapse both under the weight of its own absurdity and due to the natural, healthy pushback of, yes, initially the hard right, but now more and more, the mushy middle.

Oh, he also has 35,000 hours of videos about the Old Testament. Or something. Apparently certain of his disciples find them inspiring, and claim that they now have a better outlook on life.

This makes him a self-help guru as well. Which is fair enough. But the one thing he definitely isn't, though, is a bigot. Refusing to be compelled to call a person by an arbitrarily self-chosen third-person pronoun far beyond the bounds of holistically evolved grammatical convention, i.e. to have one's speech radically prescribed (instead of merely proscribed--obviously not the same thing--Peterson is 100% right about this) isn't bigotry or hatred.

Would you settle for asshole then? Because honestly he comes across as a huge asshole. Who cares if someone prefers to go by a different title / name than their birth certificate says.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Would you settle for asshole then? Because honestly he comes across as a huge asshole. Who cares if someone prefers to go by a different title / name than their birth certificate says.

He's made it very clear (repeatedly) that he couldn't care less what people call themselves. His argument is that he doesn't want to be compelled (by law) to use those words. You could argue that he overreacted, sure, but he lives in the world of academia. If you're a reasonable liberal or centrist or a conservative, you feel like you're surrounded by idiocy and ideology. Bill C-16 was last straw, it seems.

By the way, your virtue signal point total is ridiculous right now - you're like the Harlem Globetrotters. What's it like to be so righteous?

[Delusio Cogno]

Even a psychologist can be right 19 times out of 20.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

He's made it very clear (repeatedly) that he couldn't care less what people call themselves. His argument is that he doesn't want to be compelled (by law) to use those words. You could argue that he overreacted, sure, but he lives in the world of academia. If you're a reasonable liberal or centrist or a conservative, you feel like you're surrounded by idiocy and ideology. Bill C-16 was last straw, it seems.

By the way, your virtue signal point total is ridiculous right now - you're like the Harlem Globetrotters. What's it like to be so righteous?

I enjoy how empathy and morality have now become rightwing pejorative terms like ‘virtue signaling’. Caring about shit is so uncool. Compassion is weakness.

Go back to your hunting in the woods masculinity classes.



Fuck ya!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

I enjoy how empathy and morality have now become rightwing pejorative terms like ‘virtue signalling’. Caring about shit is so uncool. Compassion is weakness.

Go back to your hunting in the woods masculinity classes.



Fuck ya!

I like you. You're smart and well-intentioned.

But it seems like you're getting way too influenced and riled up by the rhetoric and hysteria south of the border. I was going to post something like this earlier today in the ugly thread but deleted it.

I mean this is the most amical way possible BTW.

[porkmedallions]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Peterson says some very astute things on certain issues, and he says some patently idiotic things on other issues. He's a creepy, opportunistic ideologue who, most notably, has managed to convince a generation of alt-right fanboy acolytes that SJWs portend the second coming of the Stalinist gulags instead of what they actually are, which is a leftist identitarian overreach currently in the process of a slow collapse both under the weight of its own absurdity and due to the natural, healthy pushback of, yes, initially the hard right, but now more and more, the mushy middle.

Oh, he also has 35,000 hours of videos about the Old Testament. Or something. Apparently certain of his disciples find them inspiring, and claim that they now have a better outlook on life.

This makes him a self-help guru as well. Which is fair enough. But the one thing he definitely isn't, though, is a bigot. Refusing to be compelled to call a person by an arbitrarily self-chosen third-person pronoun far beyond the bounds of holistically evolved grammatical convention, i.e. to have one's speech radically prescribed (instead of merely proscribed--obviously not the same thing--Peterson is 100% right about this) isn't bigotry or hatred.

I wholeheartedly agree. From what I have read, it is the very notion of prescribed speech that he is against. Its just happenstance that the issue has to do with the trans community, and he would be just as fervent is his position if it involved anyone else.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Who cares if someone prefers to go by a different title / name than their birth certificate says.

So you agree with "His Majesty" too? It's the exact same idea.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I like you. You're smart and well-intentioned.

But it seems like you're getting way too influenced and riled up by the rhetoric and hysteria south of the border. I was going to post something like this earlier today in the ugly thread but deleted it.

I mean this is the most amical way possible BTW.

I am riled up. Everywhere I turn I am being gaslighted by people who want me to ignore what I’m seeing. I’m watching our most important ally and trading partner, that also happens to be the only remaining superpower, descend into the early stages of fascism. There are so many red flags it’s hard to keep track of them all.

And then there’s SSP which has become overrun by right wing Peterson fanboy trolls who shit on everything and attack me for everything from coming forward about my abuse to voicing my outrage over Trump’s child parent separations. Let me tell you as someone who had their childhood ripped away at an early age, it scars you for life. What’s happening under this administration is an atrocity.

No wonder Molson quit SSP.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

So you agree with "His Majesty" too? It's the exact same idea.

No it’s not.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

No it’s not.

Explain the difference then...?