NEW YORK | 125 Greenwich Street | 912 FT | 70 FLOORS

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by NYguy

This guy has a lot to say about it.



http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...urely-radical/

Viñoly’s design for 22 Thames bests the original proposal by Selldorf: Architecture Review
The newer blueprint for the Fisher Brothers and Witkoff tower is ‘purely’ radical

Vinoly is pretty badass. He did the Pittsburgh Convention Center:

[FMIII]

Originally Posted by M. Incandenza

Because it's boring. Because it lacks anything to draw one's attention in. Because the materials (assuming a glass curtain wall and maybe steek mullions or whatever) lack the sort of heft and depth that lend a building a sense of solidity and dignity. Because sticking a vertical spine on the back doesn't change the fact that's it's essentially just another modernist box. Because I don't like modernist boxes. Because the design does not engage the imagination. Because there is no delicacy or decoration or sense of interaction between the mundane and the ethereal that marks great skyscrapers. Because minimalism is depressing.

Well that's a lot of reasons not to like it.
It is difficult to argue about taste and I won't. I also don't like boxes except when they are tall and thin which is the case with this tower. I also like its monolithic slab in the back and the way it stands in the sky. From what I red, I know that we have one thing in common: we particularly appreciate postmodernism. However, I also believe that contrast is important to get a vigorous and vibrant skyline. What is your favorite NY skyscraper built in last two decades?

[M. Incandenza]

Originally Posted by FMIII

Well that's a lot of reasons not to like it.
It is difficult to argue about taste and I won't. I also don't like boxes except when they are tall and thin which is the case with this tower. I also like its monolithic slab in the back and the way it stands in the sky. From what I red, I know that we have one thing in common: we particularly appreciate postmodernism. However, I also believe that contrast is important to get a vigorous and vibrant skyline. What is your favorite NY skyscraper built in last two decades?

Hmm, interesting question! I like the Gehry tower, with qualifications (don't like the base at all, but love its presence on the skyline). I think the Bank of America tower is okay. But the pickings are slim. Of course if you go back 25 years that takes you into the golden age of postmodernism and I'd be able to add a bunch more to the list.

I do like several buildings that are going up now, though: 56 Leonard, 111 57th Street, the Robert Stern buildings (with qualifications). Certainly I think that we're about to see the best buildings built in the city since the early 90s.

[mistermetAJ]

Originally Posted by FMIII

Well that's a lot of reasons not to like it.
It is difficult to argue about taste and I won't. I also don't like boxes except when they are tall and thin which is the case with this tower. I also like its monolithic slab in the back and the way it stands in the sky. From what I red, I know that we have one thing in common: we particularly appreciate postmodernism. However, I also believe that contrast is important to get a vigorous and vibrant skyline. What is your favorite NY skyscraper built in last two decades?

I think Larry Silverstein's Silver Towers shows that with proper massing (i.e. setbacks) and a semi-decorative crown, a building with an all glass curtain wall can fit seamlessly into the NYC skyline. It is not my favorite of the last 2 decades, but I think it speaks volumes about good architecture without ornamentation.

[FMIII]

Originally Posted by M. Incandenza

Hmm, interesting question! I like the Gehry tower, with qualifications (don't like the base at all, but love its presence on the skyline). I think the Bank of America tower is okay. But the pickings are slim. Of course if you go back 25 years that takes you into the golden age of postmodernism and I'd be able to add a bunch more to the list.

I do like several buildings that are going up now, though: 56 Leonard, 111 57th Street, the Robert Stern buildings (with qualifications). Certainly I think that we're about to see the best buildings built in the city since the early 90s.

Yes, you are right, there was a mistake in my question and to go back two decades ago is not enough to find the best skyscrapers built recently in NYC. Although, like MistermetAJ, I do like the Silverstein towers. So, if we go back a little further in the past, my top three would be (by order of appearance) : Cityspire, the Four seasons hotel and Trump palace. They represent NY at its best, flamboyant and exuberant like the city used to be in the 30's. That is why I have high hopes concerning the two forthcoming Stern's towers.

Paradoxically, I am not sure that I would love those towers that much if some bland boxy towers had not fulfilled the skyline between those two eras. That is why I believe that some diversity is always needed to appreciate what we love at its true value.

Therefore, I believe that 22 Thames, because it is a simple box (but a tall, thin and elegant one) will enhance this neighborhood. The contrast it will bring with existing gems like 70 Pine street or 40 Wall street will do more good to the area than (for instance) a failed postmodernist tower like 60 Wall street.

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by hunser

http://fisherbrothers.the42.com/properties/22-thames

I really like the board on the side. Makes it stand out more and in a way, reminds me of the old twin towers..

Anywho is there a construction update?

[Danielson27]

I'm curious about that east side, I hope it's not a blank wall considering it will have some prime views of the financial district; Since its Vinoly and I think 432 Park, messing around with ideas i'll give it this look ... Just no blank wall!!!!

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by RobertWalpole

It appears that the only building coming down is a very attractive one on Greenwich and Thames. The bland lowrise on Trinity and Thames, which is adjacent to this, houses a high school for hoodlums. It and another (even uglier) high school next door (on the other side of Thames) were bought by a developer a few years ago subject to a lease by the NYC Dep't of Ed which runs until about 2020. (If someone Googles 90 Trinity, they will find the details.)

If they waited several years to acquire the high school then we might have had a bolder design. Also the developers would have repaved the sidewalk (on Trinity and the alleyway) as they were completely dirty and uneven last time I was there.

[Hypothalamus]

Here we are:

NEW YORK | 22 Thames (78 Trinity Place) | 960 FT | 70 FLOORS

Source: Vertical_Gotham on SSC



That's elevation, so 972.38 feet at the top and the curb at 12.1 feet is a 960' tower!

More docs via VG:

[Perklol]

Originally Posted by Hypothalamus

That's elevation, so 972.38 feet at the top and the curb at 12.1 feet is a 960' tower!

Almost as tall as 4 WTC

[scalziand]

So close....

But still pretty good height.

I hope the facade is as good as the render makes it out to be.

[Crawford]

If the façade is good then this near-supertall could be pretty unique.

Mods should change official height to 960 ft. Those docs above are DOB filings.

[NYguy]

Almost equal in height to 4 WTC, making it one of the tallest Downtown. The design is the same as the renders. Keep'em comin New York!

[JayPro]

So if I'm not mistaken after looking at these sketches, am I understanding correctly that roughly half of the east-facing white slab will receive some kind of facade treatment, if not the same as the rest of the tower?

[UTEPman]

Crazy design. I mean, who just puts a (sort of) thin slab up the side of a glass tower and makes the slab higher than the tower portion?

I like it though. It should look unique when complete.

[chris08876]

This would make 5 x 900+ ft's Downtown. 22 Thames, WTC1, WTC4, 40 Wall St., and 70 Pine. If we count WTC2, and 3, its 7. Amazing height for such a small area of land.

[yankeesfan1000]

^ Don't forget 99 Church.

[Hypothalamus]

New York Post:

Michael Shvo to buy site at 22 Thames
By Lois WeissJune 10, 2014 | 10:42pm


Developer and condo marketer Michael Shvo
Photo: Getty Images

The ever effervescent Michael Shvo is planning a big and tall tower for downtown.

Locals tell us the developer and condo marketer is in contract to buy a site at 22 Thames (aka 125 Greenwich) from Fisher Bros. and Steven Witkoff for around $180 million.

The broker is Andrew Scandalios of HFF, who did not return requests for comment.

Witkoff and the Fishers simply could not turn down the price that is roughly $90 million more than the $87.5 million they paid in September 2012.

As first revealed by New York Yimby, they had plans to build a 359,130 square-foot, 956 foot-tall project designed by Rafael Vinoly, with 70 floors of 6,489 square feet geared to rental units.

But Shvo will likely redesign the tower with smaller floor plates for grand, full and half-floor luxury condos.

Add a sprinkling of street retail plus a hotel base and the residential views will tower over the World Trade Center, Statue of Liberty and New York Harbor.

There is no height limit, and for a visionary like Shvo, there are no limits.

The former marketeer for others before the 2007 bubble burst resurfaced last year with his own developments, and now has two shorter ones planned with different partners at 239 Tenth Ave. and 100 Varick, but this one would be a dramatic signature skyline statement.

Shvo did not return requests for comment. Stay tuned.

This guy is loaded...

[antinimby]

Good, I didn't like that Vinoly design with that ugly blank wall anyway.

[Crawford]

If he's building with smaller floorplates then this tower will be, at bare minimum, a supertall, because it was already 960 ft. with the previous larger floorplates.

I expect something very tall, and kind of flashy, given that Shvo is known for being theatrical.