Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking
because smaller developments build better urban neighbourhoods than megaproject office towers.
60 small residential projects getting a half million dollar TIF each would transform the downtown far more than $30m to one developer.
just my own bias...I am totally over the megaproject thing....the future is a downtown neighbourhood.
If we think about what will build the conditions that make urban living attractive so the market will become self-sustaining and we can get rid of subsidies, will that be $30m plaza and commercial skywalks on an office tower, or several dozen low-rise street oriented residential projects?
I'm a big supporter of true north square and these developers, and I think they should get a TIF. I just worry the scale and optics of their take will kill the program completely. I'm with you...i'm good with TIF...big believer...but our government is not....and the optics of these huge single payouts are part of the reason.
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I agree, mostly
First off, there is really only one office tower, and the rest are residential... but still qualifies as megaproject, no doubt.
I also think that we have to seize the opportunity to put in a couple megaprojects (or "normal projects" as they're called in other cities
) while we can. While not incorrect at all, the point that more low-rise fosters a better neighbourhood is an argument that comes up more often in response to tower overbuilding, and we're nowhere near that. If these large projects do not sour public opinion of TIF, we should add a few more towers.
But we might be near the end of funding for projects, like you said.
30M is a metric fuckton of money, and that plaza does not cost $9M. I absolutely think the City should pitch in for the park as it serves a public purpose but the amount is off-putting. I also believe that they should chip in for skywalks because it's integral to the connectivity of our downtown and an attractive feature for people who may want to live near work, thus populating this place. But that's a LOT of money.
At minimum, there was a more delicate way to handle this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban recluse
Have "60 small residential projects" been denied? You cannot give money to non-existent developments. There is not enough will in the development community to truly transform the downtown. As we all know, there are so many lots and derelict buildings downtown, so there is no shortage of development possibilities. We do not see enough developers stepping up to the plate.
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Well, this is a broad stroke, but not everyone can do what TNS does... and a number of people have been bitten by attempts to make something happen and everyone took notice.
...and due to the price tag of these lots and cost of construction, you make your money through scale and eclipsing the land costs... That's why SkyCity is so big... if that land was reasonably priced it would not have exceeded 35-38 stories. Maybe less.
The idea downtown development, financially, is the one that achieves the greatest density for the developer. Any mid-size developer mulling over anything larger than a 4 storey wood structure would try to find a partner allowing them to push for 20+ storeys. However, then you run into the next question: can I fill that space?
All that is in regard to new construction, anyway. The forks lands and east of P+M are good locations for new developments under 10 storeys, IMO.
As far as warehouse renovations, I don't know why more aren't underway, provided they aren't heritage designated. Heritage requires a ton of dedication and money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueviking
About 15 were turned down...half of those heritage building redevelopment...who knows how many more would come forward over time. If no program exists because government has been soured on TIF because of the optics of huge payouts to megaprojects, we will never know.
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But why have these been turned down? Just to allocate money to TNS and 300M?
Or are the proposals not up to the standard sought by the city?
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