Roads Fantasy Thread

[Millennium2002]

Yeah, it's unusual for me to post something like that right? Especially when I post transit fantasies on the other thread and often consistently show a pro-transit viewpoint. =P

But to be reasonable, I guess some connections need some improvements... there's no point denying that there are some congested roads out there. Of course I still wish transit to solve most of the problem... but inevitably we'll have to upgrade anyway (booming popluation, aging infrastructure, natural disaster).

[Political_R]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Metro Vancouver Highway Concepts

I acknowledge that this stretches the boundaries of what is considered relevant for this topic. It does include highway 99 though. Anyway, this is just some ideas regarding new highways and connections. Thoughts?

Just curious, what do the colours stand for with each of the routes?

And just curious, how do you make these maps?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Metro Vancouver Highway Concepts

I acknowledge that this stretches the boundaries of what is considered relevant for this topic. It does include highway 99 though. Anyway, this is just some ideas regarding new highways and connections. Thoughts?

Allan, I always enjoy your map concepts, be they transit or road. This one is good, too. However, it needs more detail, naming, and showing existing roads contrasted with future ones, as well as future and existing bridges / tunnels, etc.

Give it some more detail. I think it's an interesting piece of work.

[Millennium2002]

Hmm... yeah... the other idea was sort of rushed wasn't it? =P

Here's a much more improved version:

Metro Vancouver Highway Reorganization V2

There's a legend now that should make things easier to understand... =)

A few things I forgot to mention:
Grey lines represent existing road networks that will be demoted.
Dotted lines represent new tunnels.

[Mininari]

Nice concept!
The tunnels would cost a fortune, but I like all of your designations. You didn't go nuts with full freeways in the valley, and stuck with more realistic expressways. Good. The Lions Gate Bridge is supposed to be car-free by when? 2031? Timeline seems right for a massive tunnelling project.

[Zassk]

Regarding the Nelson Road interchange on Hwy 91, which is now underway, an additional $13.2 million was put forth last week to widen three roads related to this interchange.

Note, this probably puts the final nail in the coffin of the oft-proposed Hwy 99 Blundell interchange (at least for several years).

I could see the Blundell interchange being revived in the future as a way to relieve congestion at the Steveston Hwy interchange. With all of the new condos being built by Steveston interchange, it will get far worse within a few years. It already backs onto the highway in both directions on a lot of days... I doubt it can wait as-is until the H99 mega-project.

Trio of road-widening projects planned for Hwy. 91 interchange

(snip) The projects include the widening of Westminster Highway from Nelson Road to McMillan Way to four lanes from the current two. Nelson Road would also be widened to four lanes from Blundell Road to Westminster Highway.

A third project involves widening northbound No. 6 Road, from Wireless Way to Highway 91, to two lanes from one. (snip)

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_.../99142269.html

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Hmm... yeah... the other idea was sort of rushed wasn't it? =P

Here's a much more improved version:

Metro Vancouver Highway Reorganization V2

There's a legend now that should make things easier to understand... =)

A few things I forgot to mention:
Grey lines represent existing road networks that will be demoted.
Dotted lines represent new tunnels.

Great, global concept. Unlike others on this forum, you don't have "tunnel-phobia," either, which expedites things enormously. The whole schema has a kind of "organic whole" aspect to it, and in a way integrates the road system in Vancouver, but I think it's too ambitious and sophisticated for the granola-munchers.

(ooops, sorry, munchers. Brown sugar, bananas, or freeze-dried organic raspberries with that?)

[Pennywise604]

I don't know how many of you have traveled into White Rock or the States lately, but there is a ton of construction South of Fraser along Hwy 99/99A. They are putting in the cable barrier divider until 91 I think, and they are constructing a brand new NB bus only lane (probably HOV also) from King George in Crescent, right until the Massey Tunnel. I don't travel NB 99 for my job, but I do know, that it is a very slow crawl from 32nd av. in South Surrey all the way to Vancouver. Not like Hwy 1, but still heavy traffic. Having a NB bus lane will probably get a lot of White Rock residents to park at the Park and Ride. The buses will be able to fly past traffic from King George until Bridgeport.
Also they are 4 laning King George from Hwy 99 until Colebrook down on the flats. Which is good for me, since big trucks move slowly through that area. But there is far too much traffic to safely pass them.

[dubsH]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Great, global concept. Unlike others on this forum, you don't have "tunnel-phobia," either, which expedites things enormously. The whole schema has a kind of "organic whole" aspect to it, and in a way integrates the road system in Vancouver, but I think it's too ambitious and sophisticated for the granola-munchers.

(ooops, sorry, munchers. Brown sugar, bananas, or freeze-dried organic raspberries with that?)

LOL ... yes ... a network of tunnels will surely put Vancouver on the map for those who are sophisticated (and are not granola-munchers). In fact, there's so much infrastructure money lying around that for any future road projects, they should just all be tunneled. Regardless of whether it actually is necessary. Because that won't be lacking "tunnel vision"... right?

Since it's been said before, I won't go on and elaborate on how a tunnel to the North Shore from Granville is necessary or not (I mean, honestly, do we really need it? And also... trucks carrying dangerous substances aren't allowed in tunnels right?).

I drove on Hwy 99 thru Delta a few days ago, and it was super quiet (even with one lane, since the "fast" lane was closed for construction of the barrier). Granted, it wasn't during rush hour, but the real problem that I see is really around the Steveston/tunnel area. I can't wait until that piece of Hwy 99 finally gets upgraded around there.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by dubsH

LOL ... yes ... a network of tunnels will surely put Vancouver on the map for those who are sophisticated (and are not granola-munchers). In fact, there's so much infrastructure money lying around that for any future road projects, they should just all be tunneled. Regardless of whether it actually is necessary. Because that won't be lacking "tunnel vision"... right?

Since it's been said before, I won't go on and elaborate on how a tunnel to the North Shore from Granville is necessary or not (I mean, honestly, do we really need it? And also... trucks carrying dangerous substances aren't allowed in tunnels right?).

I drove on Hwy 99 thru Delta a few days ago, and it was super quiet (even with one lane, since the "fast" lane was closed for construction of the barrier). Granted, it wasn't during rush hour, but the real problem that I see is really around the Steveston/tunnel area. I can't wait until that piece of Hwy 99 finally gets upgraded around there.

Ooooops!! Pardon my supercilious pretentiousness, please. Mmmmmmmm .... this granola is delicious ... blueberries and pizza sauce!!!
... with apples-and-shoe polish ice cream as dessert.

[Millennium2002]

how did granola bars suddenly get into a highway discussion? xD

Anyway... an updated version of the proposal:

Metro Vancouver Road Reorganization

Also, a detailed plan of the fantasy First Narrows Tunnels:

First Narrows Tunnels Plan

Finally, not related to H99, but a plan to upgrade the dangerous North Shore interchanges on Highway 1.

North Shore Interchanges Reconfiguration

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

how did granola bars suddenly get into a highway discussion? xD

Anyway... an updated version of the proposal:

Metro Vancouver Road Reorganization

Also, a detailed plan of the fantasy First Narrows Tunnels:

First Narrows Tunnels Plan

Finally, not related to H99, but a plan to upgrade the dangerous North Shore interchanges on Highway 1.

North Shore Interchanges Reconfiguration

Again, great ideas, Allan. However (again) a legend would be in order, especially for the North Shore tunnel plans. Also (not ,your fault) it is almost impossible to discern the background. Maybe have another go, with more details, in a LEGEND format, and a more visible background?
Go to it, please!! It's really interesting (even if cost-prohibitive)!!

[Pennywise604]

Originally Posted by dubsH

I drove on Hwy 99 thru Delta a few days ago, and it was super quiet (even with one lane, since the "fast" lane was closed for construction of the barrier). Granted, it wasn't during rush hour, but the real problem that I see is really around the Steveston/tunnel area. I can't wait until that piece of Hwy 99 finally gets upgraded around there.

It completely depends on what time of day you hit Hwy 99. During rush hour it's heavy but does move SB in the afternoon. AM NB is a much slower pace. During the middle of the day it flows great, the fast lanes travel easily at 110km/h, but you do get lots of semi trucks and dump trucks though. When they pass another semi, expect a lengthy wait. Best time for Hwy 99 is anytime after 9pm, both directions easily cruise at 130km/h or higher. I've been passed doing 170km/h before at 1am, and not only that, he absolutely flew by me. He was doing well over 250km/h. (Only me and him on the entire highway, so it really does move, unlike Hwy 1)

For SB in the afternoon once the counterflow goes in, 99 flows at a good clip, Steveston really doesn't though. The one thing that scares me when I leave Richmond, is the left turn from Steveston Hwy WB onto 99 SB. It has an advanced arrow, but cars coming the other way on Steveston to Hwy 99 don't have to yield?
I would love to see it 4 laned, with proper on/off ramps. I'd say fly-over ramps for the SB to EB exit, and the NB to WB exits. (Each getting it's own lane, 4 laning it that way) That way the lights could be taken out. Seems very unlikely that it will ever happen though.

[Millennium2002]

Are you sure that the background map is hard to see? It's been set at 60% of its original opacity ever since I started creating these maps... =O Increasing the opacity for me creates clutter since the text of the road names start to become more evident.

I'll make it darker though.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Are you sure that the background map is hard to see? It's been set at 60% of its original opacity ever since I started creating these maps... =O Increasing the opacity for me creates clutter since the text of the road names start to become more evident.

I'll make it darker though.

There must be a difference between your rendering as you make it, and the rendering after it gets posted. The roads were almost invisible, and the boundaries between land and ocean could be seen - if you peered right up to the computer screen. Weird. Looking forward to seeing the new, improved version, Allan.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

There must be a difference between your rendering as you make it, and the rendering after it gets posted. The roads were almost invisible, and the boundaries between land and ocean could be seen - if you peered right up to the computer screen. Weird. Looking forward to seeing the new, improved version, Allan.

Very interesting. Try checking your settings in your computer screen because I find the maps to be generally legible here... even with 40% contrast and brightness. ^^;

First Narrows Tunnels Proposal or Fantasy

Opacity of the background has been increased to 72% from 60%. I'm hesitant in increasing it any more due to clutter caused by the text of the background map being more visible. If you have a problem with it still, again try adjusting your monitor setting. It's really hard for me to imagine how this problem could be occurring.

Also, I was a little confused when you said add a legend because it doesn't really need one like the other map did. However, I did add more arrows and labels just in case. Note that all of the network in black is supposed to be underground; where it ends, that's an entrance to or exit from the surface. Overlapping areas generally mean interchanges as you can't have traffic lights in freeways.

Highway 1 North Shore Interchanges Reconfiguration

I also updated this map slightly with opacity also now set at 72%. Bridge and tunnel symbols are in place although I forgot to do that at the Mountain Highway overpass. At any other location where networks meet there's a surface connection (either entrance or exit ramp or intersection)..

Finally, an updated region map that eliminates the original First Narrows Tunnels:

Metro Vancouver Road Reorganization

[jsbertram]

Quite interested in your ideas for future roads & tunnels.

I was throwing some ideas around for the Highway 99 - 1st Narrows Tunnels last year:



(Red line is the main tunnels, Blue and Green lines are connector ramps/portals to the main tunnel)

My first thoughts on your idea is that the main tunnels are too 'twisty', since the only need for alignment with the street grid is at the ramps/portals to the tunnels, and these ramps/portals can be as short as a half block in length. Once your 50, 75, or 100 feet into the solid earth using modern TBM equipment, the tunnels don't need to follow the grid pattern of the streets above as they were laid out in late 1800s.

You might be able to get straight-line tunnels from Oak St to Taylor Way, and let the other major streets have their own ramps/portals to the main tunnels.

I would also consider having Pacific Blvd and Denman St have some connection to this tunnel.

Super ideas, though!

[trofirhen]

(Hey, it must be my computer, because on the second diagram, the Noth Shore Interchanges Reconfiguration, the map was squished over to the left side of the screen. Also, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to do there.)

The original Metro Road Reorganization Map is still great, but differs from the massive tunnel project in that (as far as I can tell) the road traffic still goes over the Lions Gate.
**************************************************************
Now ..... for the First Narrows Tunnel or Fantasy .... this is where our thinking lines up!! Too bad we don't have money like the United Arab Emirates, because this project (which I would do as eight lanes in the main tunnel) is totally magnificent, in my point view.

There will be the "boo-ers and hiss-ers" who'll come up with any and all reasons against it, but I love that project idea, and I'm saying so here.

It would take the flow of crosstown traffic, much of it going to Hoseshoe Bay or Whistler and back, and clear it off the main streets, unclogging downtown.

The size and scope is magnificent, and it allows entry and exit from downtown, and midtown (the Broadway area). I'd love to see it become a reality. The biggest block against it would, as I said before, be the mega-mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ price tag.

But It's a super concept. Oh ... and this time I was able to see the outlines OK. (I just don't know how to adjust the opacity on my PC) Funny, because most other things come through perfectly OK .... but that's not the topic of this lesson....

Super imagination. Super work. Yay!

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

(Hey, it must be my computer, because on the second diagram, the Noth Shore Interchanges Reconfiguration, the map was squished over to the left side of the screen. Also, I didn't quite understand what you were trying to do there.)

The original Metro Road Reorganization Map is still great, but differs from the massive tunnel project in that (as far as I can tell) the road traffic still goes over the Lions Gate.
**************************************************************
Now ..... for the First Narrows Tunnel or Fantasy .... this is where our thinking lines up!! Too bad we don't have money like the United Arab Emirates, because this project (which I would do as eight lanes in the main tunnel) is totally magnificent, in my point view.

There will be the "boo-ers and hiss-ers" who'll come up with any and all reasons against it, but I love that project idea, and I'm saying so here.

It would take the flow of crosstown traffic, much of it going to Hoseshoe Bay or Whistler and back, and clear it off the main streets, unclogging downtown.

The size and scope is magnificent, and it allows entry and exit from downtown, and midtown (the Broadway area). I'd love to see it become a reality. The biggest block against it would, as I said before, be the mega-mega $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ price tag.

But It's a super concept. Oh ... and this time I was able to see the outlines OK. (I just don't know how to adjust the opacity on my PC) Funny, because most other things come through perfectly OK .... but that's not the topic of this lesson....

Super imagination. Super work. Yay!

A simple fix for our money woes:
Off Shore Drilling.

We could be the new 'blue-eyed arabs' of North America, although Alberta wouldn't willingly give up this title - some still use this as their rallying cry against 'those eastern bums and creeps'

Of course with all that money sloshing around, we'd also be able to build Maglev trains between Whistler and Chilliwack too (via Downtown Vancouver of course).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

A simple fix for our money woes:
Off Shore Drilling.

We could be the new 'blue-eyed arabs' of North America, although Alberta wouldn't willingly give up this title - some still use this as their rallying cry against 'those eastern bums and creeps'

Of course with all that money sloshing around, we'd also be able to build Maglev trains between Whistler and Chilliwack too (via Downtown Vancouver of course).

I wonder if there in fact ARE marketable reserves off the BC coast? Wouldn' that be a hoot? (although, unless rent controls were put in, we'd be like Calgary where it's totally Libertarian, and a handicapped person's rent can shoot up from $450 / month to $800 / month with no warning)

But hey, yeah!! Let's look for oil! (I'm not being facetious, j.b; I think you have the right idea)