Algonquin College Centrepointe | Proposed

[waterloowarrior]

myutopian flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/myutopian/4564290641/

[c_speed3108]

Is it just me or has there been a major uptick in steel construction lately?

I wonder if the US economy has made steel cheaper or something...

[blackjagger]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

Is it just me or has there been a major uptick in steel construction lately?

I wonder if the US economy has made steel cheaper or something...

Steel construction has always been cheaper then concrete. Why we are seeing more steel is more to due with the type of structure being built and the requirements that the tenants need. Steel construction is not used when space is an issue, so for condos you want to shrink the slab to slab dimension as much as possible and the floor slab above can be the ceiling to below with minimal work, (ie some sealing, painting, a little speckle or even some furred out gypsum board). Steel on the other hand will have a thinner slab of concrete but the joist size and steel cross members increase the total height required to get a standard 8' or 9' ceiling. Over 10 storeys you can make up an additional floor of space so the additional cost of concrete negates the loss of an entire floor of units.

For institutional or commercial where height isn’t a constraint and you require large ceiling spaces for mechanical systems you will see alot more steel structures, such as EAP or The Bow in Calgary, or locally most schools or community centers.

Cheers,
Josh

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

myutopian flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/myutopian/4564290641/

That building is actually very prominent as you drive south on Woodroffe from the 417. Woodroffe jogs to the east near Baseline so the building will be almost centred in people's view as they approach from the north. Very nice. I just hope it looks as good as the renders.

[Admiral Nelson]

Took this photo last week (04/20/2010). Apologies for that intrusive pole

[Dado]

Thanks for the photo, even with the post.

I've known what the scale of this was going to be in terms of numbers but to see it just reinforces what a waste this is. It's about twice the width of the stations at Westboro and Tunney's Pasture.

Do you happen to know what the "indent(s)" are in the trench roughly in line with the north end of the building? (I think there's one on the west side but I'm only sure of the one on the east side near the building). Is that maybe where a road will go over this thing? That theory would be fine were it not for the problem that it seems to lead straight into the side of the building...

[Richard Eade]

The indents on the sides (yes, both sides) are for the emergency exit stairs. It turns out that the tunnel is just long enough to require emergency exits so they were put in the middle.

Yes, the tunnel is HUGE. It cut looks to be about 34m wide and the finished tunnel will be (including the two structures at each end) about 300m in length. Since there is to be a central platform for the rail in the middle, it is possible (but I'm not guarantying) that there will be central columns supporting the span. Alternatively, there are to be walls between the rails and the buses (presumably to prevent gassing the rail passengers with bus emissions) so these could be uses as supports breaking the width into three, further reducing the free-spans and thus the cost. The City engineer in charge (Elizabeth Murphy) is actually a structures person and even she thinks it is big.

When I asked (at Councilor Chiarelli’s Open House) why the train was in the middle, I was told that it seemed like as good a spot as any since there were no clear plans yet for the configuration north or south of the Baseline Station Tunnel. Yes there are general ideas for the southern section to Tallwood, but because the designers (MRC) haven’t been able to even confirm whether there will or will not be a building over the station, no real design effort has gone into an over-all layout. When I pointed out that the current plan seems to be for buses to go west and for the train to go downtown, so having the train in the middle means that the north-bound buses would need to cross the tracks, I was told that nothing north of Baseline was worked out yet. Although, when I pushed a bit further, the current thinking came out. The description was that east-side ramps at the 417 (the existing east-bound to south ramp in the south-east quadrant and a new north-bound to west one, as per the Roman Ave. plan) would allow the buses to cross the tracks. Although the studies haven’t been conducted yet, I think the conclusions of the Pinecrest to S-W Transitway and Bayview to Baseline Studied have already been pointed to.

Just as an example of the depth of thought that has gone into the Baseline Tunnel and Bus Station; someone at the Open House asked where in the 300m tunnel the train would actually stop and he was told “In the middle.” When I pointed out that all of the buses would be at the south end, the MRC representative then said “We might need to review this and move where the train stops.” From the preliminary artwork on display, all of the buses stopping at the Baseline Station will be doing so on the upper level, above the southern extreme of the rail platform. The current estimate is for about 4,000 transfers from bus to train in the peak hour.

[Admiral Nelson]

^There will be a pedestrian bridge there by September.

[Richard Eade]

I didn't get them posted fast enough, obviously, but here are a couple of pics from Thursday, May 20, 2010 from the other side of the construction.

The Algonquin Building:



There is concrete on all floors, I think. A few pieces of the glazing have been test fitted.

The Trench:



The crossed piles in the background are to support the piers of the new Navaho Bridge structure. There are two rows; the visible one, and the harder to see row to the right of the 'dozer where only a few short piles are still showing. It appears they are cutting them off just below gravel level and I expect later they'll cast a foundation for the piers on them. Remember, the trains are in the center and the buses are on the outsides so they need a wide central passage and narrower ones on the sides.

That bunch of left-over piles are being used along the sides for the tunnel walls which will support the tunnel's roof. The roof will not need to span the width of the trench because there will be a row of columns along the center of the tunnel (in the middle of the rail platform) supporting a large central beam which will support the roof, mid way.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

The roof will not need to span the width of the trench because there will be a row of columns along the center of the tunnel (in the middle of the rail platform) supporting a large central beam which will support the roof, mid way.

Rail platform! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hoo ha ha ho ho hoo ha! Hoo!

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Rail platform! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hoo ha ha ho ho hoo ha! Hoo!

(I hope you didn't hurt yourself with all that laughing Just take a few deep breaths.)

A rail platform at Baseline Station might never be needed, but your tax dollars are being used to build one right now. I suppose it is better to laugh than to cry.

[Admiral Nelson]

A few weeks ago the College Ave. road connection to Baseline was torn up to make way for more digging. It will eventually be re-established in the form of an overpass.

The Algonquin building itself is progressing rather rapidly. Perhaps it's time to change the thread name from Proposed to U/C

Photo from 6/11/2010

[Richard Eade]

Can I suggest that the title be changed from Proposed to Under Construction?

[Richard Eade]

Well, it looks as if the pedestrian bridge installation will be delayed a couple of weeks so Woodroffe will not be closed this week-end.

Does anyone else wonder why it is going to take so long to install the new bridge?

Seriously, there will be lane reductions on the Saturday from noon until 19h00 and then Woodroffe will be completely shut-down between Meadowlands and Baseline for the next 17 hours!

For reference, the Rapid Bridge Replacement used for the Island Park Bridges took only 17 hours in total. And the larger Clyde Bridges took only 15 hours! This involved removing the two existing bridge structures, reconditioning any bearing surfaces, moving the new bridge structures into place and then paving the whole works.

I expect that the new pedestrian bridge will arrive by truck in pre-fabricated sections which will need to be lifted onto the already built piers. How is this going to take 24 hours of roadway disruption, including 17 hours of total closure?

I also see that the $5M cap has stretched to $5.4M for this bridge alone. I wonder how much more we will be spending on the second bridge which crosses over College Ave. to the Transitway station and the other bridge which joins this Algonquin building to the next one across the plaza, over the buried Transitway?

[Richard Eade]

OOPS sorry I only read the postponement notice. According to Neco Cockburn of the Citizen, the actual road/lane closures for Woodroffe are:

The work is expected to cause some road closures:

- Between 12 p.m. and 7 p.m. Saturday, traffic along Woodroffe will be
reduced to one lane in each direction between Navaho Drive and College
Avenue.

- Between 7 p.m. Saturday and 12 p.m. Sunday, Woodroffe will be closed
from Meadowlands Drive to Baseline Road. Local traffic and OC Transpo
buses will be allowed on Woodroffe northbound at Meadowlands. Detours will
be in effect.

- Between 12 p.m. and 6 p.m. Sunday, traffic along Woodroffe will again be
down to one lane in each direction between Navaho and College.

OC Transpo is expected to provide its regular Saturday and Sunday service.

So I was wrong, and I admit it. There will not be 24 hours of disruptions as I stated in my previous post, it is actually 30 hours. What are they planning to do? All I can think of is that they are planning to do all of the glazing from the ground as well.

How was the Kanata pedestrian 417 overpass installed? I don't remember any big shut-down of the 417.

Am I crazy, or should it really take 30 hours to lift a pre-fab pedestrian bridge into place? This bridge isn't planned to be open until after March 2011; isn't it possible to spend some of the time until then finishing it from within the structure - perhaps at night?

[Richard Eade]

Am I the only one who is totally confused by this???? First the Press assures us that the closures of Woodroffe had been delayed because the bridge was stuck in Quebec awaiting permission for transportation.

New pedestrian bridge for Ottawa street held up in Quebec
The Ottawa Citizen August 6, 2010 4:08 PM

OTTAWA — Ottawa drivers won't have to worry about one road closure this weekend — for the installation of a new $5.4-million pedestrian bridge across Woodroffe Avenue at Algonquin College.

City spokesman Mouktar Abdillahi said the Quebec government has not provided a permit to transport the bridge to Ottawa but he did not know why.

Abdillahi said the bridge has been stopped in Varennes, Que., and would likely be moved to Ottawa next week if the Quebec Ministry of Transport issues a highway permit.

The bridge is intended to link the new college trades building and a future underground transit station on the west side of Woodroffe with the rest of the college and neighbourhoods on the east side of the street. The city will pay for the bridge, while the college provides funding for maintenance.

Woodroffe was to have been reduced to one lane in each direction between Navaho Drive and College Avenue between 12 p.m. and 7 p.m. on Saturday. Woodroffe was also to have been closed between 7 p.m. Saturday and 12 p.m. Sunday from Meadowlands Drive to Baseline Road.
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Then I find that there were lane closures on Woodroffe.

From CFRA's Web site:

Lane Reductions on Woodroffe
Josh Pringle
Sunday, August 8, 2010

Motorists are being advised to expect some lane reductions on Woodroffe Avenue near Algonquin College again today.

Ottawa Police say there will be lane reductions between Meadowlands/Tallwood and Baseline Road between 7 am and 1 pm today as part of work on a new pedestrian overpass.

The city had initially said the installation of a pedestrian overpass was postponed this weekend due to delays in the delivery of the bridge's components.

The city will announce plans for future lane reductions and road closures as soon as possible, with work expected to resume next weekend.

I vote that ALL CITY PLANNING STAFF be fired immediately. Followed by the Staff responsible for informing the media and public as to what is going on with the City.

I'll bet that there will still be 30 hours required to install the bridge when it gets here.

[TransitZilla]

Richard, can I suggest Valium?

[Richard Eade]

Thanks. Took 2. Feeling better now.

I just think it is a marvelous example of the City's right hand not knowing what its left hand is doing, or foot, or mouth for that matter.

On Thursday we are going to get road closures to install a bridge, then on Friday we have no bridge so there are no road closures, then on Saturday and Sunday, they close the road anyway - even though we don't have the bridge that was to be installed.

OK, I'll take another one.

[blackjagger]

I can't tell you how many times for city projects, the client (ie the City of Ottawa) has a hard time getting a permit from the City of Ottawa. I don't know if this is a universal problem, but Building Inpectors and permit staff don't like the designs done by the City's design staff. I have a really hard time wrapping my head around that.

Oh well delay claims and change orders make my day go over well.

Cheers,
Josh

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Thanks. Took 2. Feeling better now.

I just think it is a marvelous example of the City's right hand not knowing what its left hand is doing, or foot, or mouth for that matter.

On Thursday we are going to get road closures to install a bridge, then on Friday we have no bridge so there are no road closures, then on Saturday and Sunday, they close the road anyway - even though we don't have the bridge that was to be installed.

OK, I'll take another one.

Woodroofe was not closed on Sunday- I drove down it myself. The city issues a news release on Friday saying that the road closures would not occur (http://ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/pressco.pl?...6224&lang=en); I suspect the CFRA story you quoted was based on stale information.

Regarding the time; I'm not an engineer, but I'll accept that it takes some time for an operation like this. I don't think a road closure for 17 hours on a Saturday night is something to freak out about.