99 Fifth Ave | 22.5m | 7f | U/C

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

Six stories can be human scale, but I would be careful about making blanket statements. The scale of a street is based on a combination of height and width. Right now, there isn't enough width in the pedestrian realm, so the scale would be out of whack with a six-storey streetwall and traffic whizzing by two feet away on the other side.

The Parisian ideal depends on design elements that are not typically present on new Ottawa condo buildings, and much wider sidewalks.

The width of the sidewalk, and the height of the facade as it emerges from that sidewalk, are two completely unrelated measurements.

And just as with Ottawa streets, the idea that Ottawa sidewalks are "too narrow", is kinda not true. Compare:

https://goo.gl/maps/unkArXhEfst

Which is the more interesting urban place? This very narrow street with 5-6 storey facades on either side, or Fifth Avenue at Bank in the Glebe, which is more than twice the width?

One of the best things Canadian cities could do to start building for our environment and climate is to embrace tighter, more intimate, and narrower built forms, but holy hell, you put a twenty-foot wide lane somewhere in Ottawa with five-storey buildings tight to the property line, and the Usual Suspects would be complaining about the "wind tunnel".

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I think I understand what phil is saying. The current proposal, keeping the historic 2 story retail and building 8 floors behind is a better alternative than what we will end up with if NIMBYs win, that is a 6 story lot-line to lot-line box. If NIMBYs were to win, it would be better to have a 6 floor mid-rise on top of a 2 story podium that fronts the street. While we're at it, a little set back (1 or 2 meters) for benches, a bus shelter and maybe a patio should be considered.

A setback on which street? Bank? How do you set back a building front that's already there?

The tightness of Bank Street in the Glebe is a feature, not a bug. We tamper with that at great peril. One of the things I don't like about the new lansdowne is that that sense of intimacy could have been enhanced along the Bank Street frontage, but wasn't. Yes, you need more sidewalk space there, given the crowds, but the built environment and the transit infrastructure could have been done a lot better and in line with hygge principles.

Same thing happened in the Westboro Loblaws case. All the usual negative nellies wanted a big generous setback. They got it. It's awful.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A setback on which street? Bank? How do you set back a building front that's already there?

The tightness of Bank Street in the Glebe is a feature, not a bug. We tamper with that at great peril. One of the things I don't like about the new lansdowne is that that sense of intimacy could have been enhanced along the Bank Street frontage, but wasn't. Yes, you need more sidewalk space there, given the crowds, but the built environment and the transit infrastructure could have been done a lot better and in line with hygge principles.

Same thing happened in the Westboro Loblaws case. All the usual negative nellies wanted a big generous setback. They got it. It's awful.

I think they're saying that it would be ideal to have a step-back at floor 3 or 4... not that the existing building should be moved back. A step-back of maybe 2-3 meters at floor 3 / 4 would provide a bit more light without compromising on urban character. Bank Street is a great width, and the wide section around Landsdowne is super out-of-character.

[Arcologist]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

I do have a problem with losing the Fifth Avenue Court complex as we've known it. Underappreciated, it is...

I didn't even know this existed, to be honest. Too bad, it looks nice!

[roger1818]

To put things in perspective, I think the plans look pretty good compared to what was recently built across the street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

To put things in perspective, I think the plans look pretty good compared to what was recently built across the street.

Yeah, too bad that the burnt-out building couldn't have been replaced with at least a two-floor jobby, and with that micro parking lot eliminated.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yeah, too bad that the burnt-out building couldn't have been replaced with at least a two-floor jobby, and with that micro parking lot eliminated.

As I understand it, the owner wanted to do that, but it caused problems with his insurance company, so he went with an exact facsimile of the previous structure.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And just as with Ottawa streets, the idea that Ottawa sidewalks are "too narrow", is kinda not true. Compare:

https://goo.gl/maps/unkArXhEfst

Which is the more interesting urban place? This very narrow street with 5-6 storey facades on either side, or Fifth Avenue at Bank in the Glebe, which is more than twice the width?

Sure, I can see that in a pedestrianized street. I am more thinking of something like this, which is a closer equivalent to the dimensions of Bank & Fifth.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.91081...7i13312!8i6656

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

Sure, I can see that in a pedestrianized street. I am more thinking of something like this, which is a closer equivalent to the dimensions of Bank & Fifth.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.91081...7i13312!8i6656

I might be wrong, but I don't think those are comparable. Those sidewalks in Chicago seem to only be about 5' wide, where as on Bank at 5th, they are closer to 8' wide. Still narrow, but that extra 3' makes a big difference.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I might be wrong, but I don't think those are comparable. Those sidewalks in Chicago seem to only be about 5' wide, where as on Bank at 5th, they are closer to 8' wide. Still narrow, but that extra 3' makes a big difference.

Could be, but the ones on Bank have poles in them, so the usable width can't be much more. It was the closest image I could find, with a series of six-storey buildings coming right up to a narrow sidewalk without set back at the top.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by phil235

Could be, but the ones on Bank have poles in them, so the usable width can't be much more. It was the closest image I could find, with a series of six-storey buildings coming right up to a narrow sidewalk without set back at the top.

The Chicago picture also has posts as well as planters on the sidewalk, also making the usable width even less.

[rocketphish]

Glebe development latest to leave councillor's head hurting over planning

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: June 26, 2018



Coun. David Chernushenko has a headache from developers getting more than what the city’s planning rules allow.

“I feel like I’ve run up a wall enough times that my head hurts,” Chernushenko said Tuesday during a planning committee meeting, which approved a seven-storey building in the Glebe.

“I don’t think the problem is my head. I think it’s the wall.”

Minto Communities is proposing the building at 99 Fifth Ave. as an addition to the historic two-storey commercial strip along Bank Street. The new building would replace a two-storey addition and interior courtyard built in the 1980s.

Current zoning only permits five storeys, but city planners say the seven-storey proposal is compatible with the community.

Chernushenko, who represents the area and believes development should be capped between four and six storeys along the main street, said more residents are giving up fighting city hall over planning applications they don’t support. They just assume the applications will be approved regardless of opposition, he said.

Some Glebe residents addressed the committee to register their disappointment.

Coun. Jeff Leiper was the only committee member who voted against Minto’s application. (Chernushenko isn’t on the committee).

There was one small bright spot for Chernushenko. The planning department agreed to look into the possibility of a modified community design plan to identify the appropriate height and density of buildings along Bank Street between Highway 417 and the Rideau Canal.

Council will vote on the application July 11.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-over-planning

[kwoldtimer]

Am I correct in thinking this has lost a storey and added some red brick since the original proposal?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Am I correct in thinking this has lost a storey and added some red brick since the original proposal?

Yep, and gained some articulation on the sides.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Glebe development latest to leave councillor's head hurting over planning

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Updated: June 26, 2018



Coun. David Chernushenko has a headache from developers getting more than what the city’s planning rules allow.

“I feel like I’ve run up a wall enough times that my head hurts,” Chernushenko said Tuesday during a planning committee meeting, which approved a seven-storey building in the Glebe.

“I don’t think the problem is my head. I think it’s the wall.”

Minto Communities is proposing the building at 99 Fifth Ave. as an addition to the historic two-storey commercial strip along Bank Street. The new building would replace a two-storey addition and interior courtyard built in the 1980s.

Current zoning only permits five storeys, but city planners say the seven-storey proposal is compatible with the community.

Chernushenko, who represents the area and believes development should be capped between four and six storeys along the main street, said more residents are giving up fighting city hall over planning applications they don’t support. They just assume the applications will be approved regardless of opposition, he said.

Some Glebe residents addressed the committee to register their disappointment.

Coun. Jeff Leiper was the only committee member who voted against Minto’s application. (Chernushenko isn’t on the committee).

There was one small bright spot for Chernushenko. The planning department agreed to look into the possibility of a modified community design plan to identify the appropriate height and density of buildings along Bank Street between Highway 417 and the Rideau Canal.

Council will vote on the application July 11.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-over-planning

Are we sure that Chernushenko is running again? He does seem just fed up with the process and likely some of his fellow councillors. He seems too nice of a guy to be dealing with some of the critters that are in the development racket.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Am I correct in thinking this has lost a storey and added some red brick since the original proposal?

Exactly right. And being Minto the building should turn out looking pretty close to the renderings.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Proof Sheet

Are we sure that Chernushenko is running again? He does seem just fed up with the process and likely some of his fellow councillors. He seems too nice of a guy to be dealing with some of the critters that are in the development racket.

I deal with him quite regularly. He has said he is running again. And I'm not sure about the "nice guy" characterization. That hasn't been my experience.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Am I correct in thinking this has lost a storey and added some red brick since the original proposal?

I still don't think it fits in very well with the area.

[FutureWickedCity]

First Macdonalds, now this! That corner is going to hell! Actually I'm not opposed to this development. With Landsdowne being what it is now, this won't be out of place.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by phil235

I deal with him quite regularly. He has said he is running again. And I'm not sure about the "nice guy" characterization. That hasn't been my experience.

Well he didn't get lobbied directly

http://ottwatch.ca/lobbying/files/2000