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  #41  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 2:44 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Six stories can be human scale, but I would be careful about making blanket statements. The scale of a street is based on a combination of height and width. Right now, there isn't enough width in the pedestrian realm, so the scale would be out of whack with a six-storey streetwall and traffic whizzing by two feet away on the other side.

The Parisian ideal depends on design elements that are not typically present on new Ottawa condo buildings, and much wider sidewalks.
The width of the sidewalk, and the height of the facade as it emerges from that sidewalk, are two completely unrelated measurements.

And just as with Ottawa streets, the idea that Ottawa sidewalks are "too narrow", is kinda not true. Compare:

https://goo.gl/maps/unkArXhEfst

Which is the more interesting urban place? This very narrow street with 5-6 storey facades on either side, or Fifth Avenue at Bank in the Glebe, which is more than twice the width?

One of the best things Canadian cities could do to start building for our environment and climate is to embrace tighter, more intimate, and narrower built forms, but holy hell, you put a twenty-foot wide lane somewhere in Ottawa with five-storey buildings tight to the property line, and the Usual Suspects would be complaining about the "wind tunnel".
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  #42  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 2:48 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I think I understand what phil is saying. The current proposal, keeping the historic 2 story retail and building 8 floors behind is a better alternative than what we will end up with if NIMBYs win, that is a 6 story lot-line to lot-line box. If NIMBYs were to win, it would be better to have a 6 floor mid-rise on top of a 2 story podium that fronts the street. While we're at it, a little set back (1 or 2 meters) for benches, a bus shelter and maybe a patio should be considered.
A setback on which street? Bank? How do you set back a building front that's already there?

The tightness of Bank Street in the Glebe is a feature, not a bug. We tamper with that at great peril. One of the things I don't like about the new lansdowne is that that sense of intimacy could have been enhanced along the Bank Street frontage, but wasn't. Yes, you need more sidewalk space there, given the crowds, but the built environment and the transit infrastructure could have been done a lot better and in line with hygge principles.

Same thing happened in the Westboro Loblaws case. All the usual negative nellies wanted a big generous setback. They got it. It's awful.
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  #43  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 3:19 PM
Multi-modal Multi-modal is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
A setback on which street? Bank? How do you set back a building front that's already there?

The tightness of Bank Street in the Glebe is a feature, not a bug. We tamper with that at great peril. One of the things I don't like about the new lansdowne is that that sense of intimacy could have been enhanced along the Bank Street frontage, but wasn't. Yes, you need more sidewalk space there, given the crowds, but the built environment and the transit infrastructure could have been done a lot better and in line with hygge principles.

Same thing happened in the Westboro Loblaws case. All the usual negative nellies wanted a big generous setback. They got it. It's awful.
I think they're saying that it would be ideal to have a step-back at floor 3 or 4... not that the existing building should be moved back. A step-back of maybe 2-3 meters at floor 3 / 4 would provide a bit more light without compromising on urban character. Bank Street is a great width, and the wide section around Landsdowne is super out-of-character.
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  #44  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DEWLine View Post
I do have a problem with losing the Fifth Avenue Court complex as we've known it. Underappreciated, it is...
I didn't even know this existed, to be honest. Too bad, it looks nice!
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  #45  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 3:46 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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To put things in perspective, I think the plans look pretty good compared to what was recently built across the street.

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  #46  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 4:57 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
To put things in perspective, I think the plans look pretty good compared to what was recently built across the street.
Yeah, too bad that the burnt-out building couldn't have been replaced with at least a two-floor jobby, and with that micro parking lot eliminated.
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  #47  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 5:20 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Yeah, too bad that the burnt-out building couldn't have been replaced with at least a two-floor jobby, and with that micro parking lot eliminated.
As I understand it, the owner wanted to do that, but it caused problems with his insurance company, so he went with an exact facsimile of the previous structure.
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  #48  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 5:28 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
And just as with Ottawa streets, the idea that Ottawa sidewalks are "too narrow", is kinda not true. Compare:

https://goo.gl/maps/unkArXhEfst

Which is the more interesting urban place? This very narrow street with 5-6 storey facades on either side, or Fifth Avenue at Bank in the Glebe, which is more than twice the width?
Sure, I can see that in a pedestrianized street. I am more thinking of something like this, which is a closer equivalent to the dimensions of Bank & Fifth.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.91081...7i13312!8i6656
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  #49  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 8:35 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Sure, I can see that in a pedestrianized street. I am more thinking of something like this, which is a closer equivalent to the dimensions of Bank & Fifth.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@41.91081...7i13312!8i6656
I might be wrong, but I don't think those are comparable. Those sidewalks in Chicago seem to only be about 5' wide, where as on Bank at 5th, they are closer to 8' wide. Still narrow, but that extra 3' makes a big difference.
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  #50  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 9:42 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
I might be wrong, but I don't think those are comparable. Those sidewalks in Chicago seem to only be about 5' wide, where as on Bank at 5th, they are closer to 8' wide. Still narrow, but that extra 3' makes a big difference.
Could be, but the ones on Bank have poles in them, so the usable width can't be much more. It was the closest image I could find, with a series of six-storey buildings coming right up to a narrow sidewalk without set back at the top.
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  #51  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2018, 9:58 PM
roger1818 roger1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Could be, but the ones on Bank have poles in them, so the usable width can't be much more. It was the closest image I could find, with a series of six-storey buildings coming right up to a narrow sidewalk without set back at the top.
The Chicago picture also has posts as well as planters on the sidewalk, also making the usable width even less.
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