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  #261  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
The original design with the stadium looks 100X better. I wish they would take the pyramid looking building from the original, and stick in the place of the tall building in the new proposal.
That's just the concept for the entire Hudson Yards rezoning. The railyards development itself - while the largest in the city - is only a portion of that. And from those original conceps, only a couple of towers over the railyards are visible. The cancellation of the stadium is what led to the larger railyard development.


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Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
I'm certainly in the minority here, but if they do actually look like what's in the more detailed renders I'll be reasonably happy. They're not the best designs in the world, but it's been said before that Related is relatively conservative, and in this economy where not many large scale projects are moving forward, I'm happy that this one is.

And when this project is done in say, 7-10 years, these towers are going to have a lot of company, Girasole, Sheerwood Equities, MW, 15 Penn, the rest of the railyard, so there's still plenty to look forward to.
Well stated, and that's where I am at this point. I think Related will do whatever it takes to get these towers built, because like Larry Silverstein with the WTC, and Vornado with the Port Authority Bus Terminal tower, there's a lot more at stake in it for them, and time is a major factor here. All of these things are moving forward now because they are basically being pushed.
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  #262  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 2:41 PM
RobertWalpole RobertWalpole is offline
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Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork View Post
what tower are you talking about? it cant be this one,right?
Heron

     
     
  #263  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 5:07 PM
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Oh my. What ugly buildings.

Last edited by 599GTO; Mar 27, 2011 at 6:22 PM.
     
     
  #264  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyscrapersOfNewYork View Post
15 Penn Plaza is awaiting a tenant to start construction, Manhattan West is starting construction within a year, Girasole is in site prep and awaiting the 7 lines construction,something tall will rise indefinitely at the World Product Centre site and the Sherwood Equities tower is still only proposed.
Proof or I don't believe it. How many times has Manhattan West been planning to "start construction within a year"?

Out of all the West Side proposals, Manhattan West is by far the most beautiful. Followed by 15 Penn. Manhattan West puts this 1970s turd from Related to shame.
     
     
  #265  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 5:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 599GTO View Post
Oh please. Of the slew of new skyscrapers that have popped up, what, besides Ghery is a showstopper? Absolutely none. 1 WTC? Not up and doesn't count. 2 and 3 World Trade Centers wont be topped out for like 10 years (even though they all should have been up years ago ). Sad, that a terrorist attack is the only way to bring about new, soaring , stunning towers in this city when nothing on that caliber would ever be built in this city otherwise. MoMA? What even happened to that sad, decapitated tower? Carnegie 57? Nice, but that's not enough. I'm not sure why people in the "Greatest City in the World!" are so accepting of mediocrity -- it's truly shocking!

These Related/Hudson buildings are so UGLY and I hope something bad happens and they're canceled. So tacky and they absolutely ruin the NYC skyline. What was the point of building three tacky boxes? Why couldn't one soaring tower (that actually looks half decent) be put up instead?

UGH.


The reason why one soaring tower wasn't built is that it is probably safer, cheaper and more profitable to build 3 shorter towers. The developers build to maximize profits in NY. This isn't Dubai, China where buildings are built to create prestige and a new city destination on the world's tourism and business map. NY developers are not interested in raising eyebrows with amazing expensive innovative towers if its going to be overly risky and debt ridden venture and doesn't help their bottom line.

There is no 'greatest city' because everyone has a difference of opinion.

I agree with you, these towers are a let down for one of the last major development sites in Manhattan. We all hope that these towers are cancelled but not likely.. One extremely tall mixed use building here would have fit the bill nicely instead of that stump of a 3rd building. However, we all know that NY is a profit focused town.

Oh, and the Heron tower isn't anything special.. I never was into it. Has some nice facade work in parts, but I can't believe people were 'creaming' over it.

Last edited by aquablue; Mar 27, 2011 at 5:41 PM.
     
     
  #266  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post


The reason why one soaring tower wasn't built is that it is probably safer, cheaper and more profitable to build 3 shorter towers. The developers build to maximize profits in NY. This isn't Dubai, China where buildings are built to create prestige and a new city destination on the world's tourism and business map. NY developers are not interested in raising eyebrows with amazing expensive innovative towers if its going to be overly risky and debt ridden venture and doesn't help their bottom line.
How about Paris or London?

Quote:
There is no 'greatest city' because everyone has a difference of opinion.
I don't mean "greatest city" in that way of personal opinion, but on paper New York City is the "greatest city" in the way that it remains the world's most powerful and successful. New York has by far the most wealth of any city in the world and arguably the most economic activity and IMO a city as great as New York should take it up a notch when it comes to building design. Especially in such prominent section of the city as this which could very much ruin the skyline.

If these buildings were built somewhere else in Manhattan, I wouldn't really care. But here? No!! The railyards should be an area of architectural excessive, not another bland Battery Park City (as pretty as BPC looks on street level).

Quote:
I agree with you, these towers are a let down for one of the last major development sites in Manhattan. We all hope that these towers are cancelled but not likely.. One extremely tall mixed use building here would have fit the bill nicely instead of that stump of a 3rd building. However, we all know that NY is a profit focused town.
I would rather them be canceled than see this mess go up. Hopefully someone with taste takes control of this site and builds something spectacular.
     
     
  #267  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 8:30 PM
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I think those London towers are financed with Arab money. Anyway, London has odd shaped plots (no grid) and strict zoning & design reviews. They have to design their towers to minimize obstruction of view corridors, etc. Developers get an easy ride over here and have few design reviews, etc.

Paris...well, well I've been waiting for those proposals to start and I have yet to see it. La Defense has many bland boxes. Unless I see those twins built or the other organic tower, it is just vapor ware.

In general, it is harder to get something tall built in Europe. Design is a huge factor in approvals b/c public opinion of tall towers in Paris/London has been looked on with a suspicious eye in the recent past after some atrocious examples were built. In NY, its just another skyscraper to add to the jungle and you can get away with bland boxes over and over again. Not many people are willing to stop economic development b/c of design issues.

Until the public and thus the politicians start demanding better designs, you are at the mercy of the developer. You have to hope you get a well financed developer with good taste and an interest in design.

I can't imagine these towers would be cancelled now. Related seem to want to build them and the economic situation is slowly rebounding. I guess we could hope for a re-design.
     
     
  #268  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 9:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 599GTO View Post
Proof or I don't believe it. How many times has Manhattan West been planning to "start construction within a year"?

Out of all the West Side proposals, Manhattan West is by far the most beautiful. Followed by 15 Penn. Manhattan West puts this 1970s turd from Related to shame.

PROOF


Quote:
By DANA RUBINSTEIN
February 28, 2011

Brookfield Properties is optimistic that it will start construction within a year on a long-planned, two-tower office development to be built on a platform over the railyards at Ninth Avenue and 33rd Street.

"We are actively wrapping up our planning and will be in a position to begin deck construction late this year or early next," Ric Clark, Brookfield's chief executive, said in an email.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...737840000.html
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  #269  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 10:19 PM
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Well this has been said many times before, but I'm hoping its factual this time.

If thats' the case, I can concede that NYC is indeed getting many of beautiful towers: WTC (hopefully 2 and 3 are actually built...in my lifetime), Manhattan West, Girasole, 15 Penn Plaza, Carnegie 57 and hopefully 56 Leonard Street and the Nouvel building.

Still can't stand this looks of this project though.

Last edited by 599GTO; Mar 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM.
     
     
  #270  
Old Posted Mar 27, 2011, 10:27 PM
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The cladding quality could make or break it. Don't write it off just yet.

Anyway, there are many other buildings to come on the rail yards that may have superior designs and mask these towers if they turn out to be awful.
     
     
  #271  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2011, 2:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 599GTO View Post
Well this has been said many times before, but I'm hoping its factual this time.

If thats' the case, I can concede that NYC is indeed getting many of beautiful towers: WTC (hopefully 2 and 3 are actually built...in my lifetime)
2 & 3 WTC will happen before a lot of these other proposals will. First, because Three WTC only needs a 400,000 sqft to secure financing. Second, because almost a third of the cost (the foundations) were paid for with public money and built by the Port Authority. Third, they have larger floorplates, though 15 Penn and the taller of the Manhattan West building are roughly the footprint of 3WTC. Fourth, construction has actually started. Nothing gives people more confidence in your ability to built their space like a tower crane already on-site.
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  #272  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2011, 2:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 599GTO View Post
(hopefully 2 and 3 are actually built...in my lifetime).

Unless you're 90 years old or get hit by a bus tomorrow then yes they will be.
     
     
  #273  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2011, 5:33 AM
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furthermore, Manhattan West might begin construction next year supposedly, within the next decade, the NY skyline will be transformed completely
     
     
  #274  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2011, 6:29 AM
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Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
The cladding quality could make or break it. Don't write it off just yet.

Anyway, there are many other buildings to come on the rail yards that may have superior designs and mask these towers if they turn out to be awful.
I really hope the other buildings cover up these ones. Although, I'm hoping the cladding saves them from being completely terrible. I'm not holding my breath though because overall, their design is way old and terribly bland.
     
     
  #275  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2011, 2:25 PM
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Proof or I don't believe it. How many times has Manhattan West been planning to "start construction within a year"?
Actually, they only planned to begin construction once before things went south. Like the railyards here, a platform will be built first.
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  #276  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2011, 1:32 PM
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Probably the biggest reason Related needs to get the site underway...the MTA will expect payments relatively soon...



http://www.cityhallnews.com/newyork/...ered-fare.html
Would putting the MTA’s 8,881 properties on the market help plug the budget gap?

By Laura Nahmias
March 29, 2011

Quote:
At a recent meeting of the joint transportation conference committee in Albany, State Sen. Andrew Lanza called for a criminal investigation into the finances of the Metropolitan Transit Authority, claiming the debt-ridden agency might be cooking its books.

"We all know the MTA has long been stingy with financial disclosure, they keep every single year the numbers very close to the vest, until at the very last moment they claim catastrophe," Lanza said.

But the MTA's finances are already under investigation, and state comptroller's office says the beleaguered authority ($900 million operating deficit, $2.1 billion projected deficit over next three years, $31 billion in capital debts) needs to find ways to generate revenue.

Last summer Comptroller Tom DiNapoli's office audited the MTA's real estate department, which is in charge of finding ways to market and sell the agency's holdings. Di- Napoli determined the agency should find a way to unload many of its buildings, offices, easements and air rights to offset the tremendous debt.

...In 770 properties under ownership of the MTA, Long Island Rail Road and New York Transit Authority listed in the city's tax records, only 152 had information on their current assessed value, and that value was $320 million. That number represents just 2 percent of the properties the MTA holds.

Both the comptroller's office and the MTA say it is inaccurate to extrapolate values for the properties from those numbers, given the diversity of holdings listed as property in the database.

But some of the MTA's more visible holdings, like its headquarters on Madison Avenue, have drawn fire from critics who say the agency, deeply in debt, cannot afford the tony address, despite its proximity to Grand Central Station.

The MTA says work is underway to determine what can be sold.

"We are in contract to sell the development rights over Hudson Yards and Atlantic Yards, two of our biggest and certainly most valuable properties," said Aaron Donovan, a spokesperson for the MTA. "In addition, we are in the midst of a systematic investigation of our office space needs. We've issued a request for proposals to solicit the help of brokers who may be able to help us identify the sales potential of some of our office sites."
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  #277  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Ugh, just go bankrupt already!

Maybe the mass scrapping of their entire fleet and the replacement of NTT's was the cause? Or maybe it was the 75 year-old Second Avenue Subway project? who knows. But I could use a lot less of these excuses right about now.

Anywho, back to Hudson Yards. It's a good thing nothing will get built until they start landing some tenants. That means that they have plenty of time to change the designs(unless this was the final design, which I highly doubt).
     
     
  #278  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2011, 5:01 AM
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Anywho, back to Hudson Yards. It's a good thing nothing will get built until they start landing some tenants. That means that they have plenty of time to change the designs(unless this was the final design, which I highly doubt).
They'll get their tenant. The first tower is expected to begin construction early next year, and they're already talking to many potential tenants. But even without one, they may have to begin sooner than they would like.


Quote:
The company is under pressure to get moving, given its agreement with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which owns the 26-acre rail yards. The agreement calls for the developer to begin paying hefty rental payments once an improving office market hits an 11% availability rate. It is currently 12.6%, down from 15% a year ago.

"The efforts we are undertaking ensure we are ramped up and ready to go because it's hard to predict exactly when you are going to hit on your first and second tenant deals," says Mr. Cross. "This market is very diverse when it comes to large users, and the market seems to be very resilient."

Related is focusing its planning on starting a 1.4 million-square-foot building on the southeast corner of the rail yards that would have up to 1 million square feet of office space, topped with 25 floors of apartments, according to Mr. Cross.

This 800-foot-plus tower would sit on firm ground, while the rest of the site requires an expensive roof to first be built over the tracks.

Like many developers, Related plans to effectively give away the office space at cost to a major tenant—asking for rents of about $70 a foot—while it would look to make its money on the residential above

More on the development...

Quote:
By Steve Cuozzo

Stephen M. Ross's Related Cos. has a leathery catch on the line for its planned Hudson Yards development project -- New York-based luxury goods maker Coach, Inc.

Sources told us booming Coach is prowling for up to 600,000 square feet of office space on the West Side for a new corporate home. "Coach has been exchanging paper" with Related regarding Hudson Yards as well as with other landlords in the area, the sources said.

The company owns its 265,000-square-foot headquarters building at 516 W. 34th St., which it once used for manufacturing and where it still maintains a small factory to produce samples.

It also has a few hundred thousand square feet at 450 W. 33rd St. and at a smaller building on 34th Street. "Now, they've outgrown their premises," a source explained.

There's no letter of intent for Hudson Yards, at least not yet. But a source described the Related talks as "still a work in progress but very serious." Financially strong Coach currently has around $1 billion in cash on its balance sheet to play with.

The 26-acre Hudson Yards site bounded by 10th and 12th avenues between West 30th-33rd Streets -- most of it above the West Side rail yard -- is to be developed by Related and OMERS, the Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System. Last May, Related signed a deal with the MTA to lease the site for 99 years, with the partners putting in a $21.75 million deposit.

The project is eventually to include 21 million square feet of development. The master plan calls for three corporate headquarters sites, 5,000 apartments in nine buildings, "destination" retail, a luxury hotel, a new public school, cultural facilities and 12 acres of public open space.

It was understood last night that Coach and Related weren't focused only on one of the office sites, but were exploring "options" at all three.

The third tower is the one on the western yards.



From globest.com
http://www.globest.com/news/1812_181.../305414-1.html

Quote:
Related Cos. and Oxford Properties Group said Thursday they’re beginning preparatory work.

The first step will be the demolition of the circa-1930s Metals Purchasing Building, a process that a Related spokeswoman tells GlobeSt.com will cost $2 million and take around four months. Tishman Construction Corp. is managing the deconstruction.

Jay Cross, president of Related Oxford Hudson Yards, tells GlobeSt.com the terra firma segment of the 26-acre development site would likely represent the best option for delivering a building “for a tenant that wants to be in by a certain time. Since it’s the site that could be delivered the most quickly, we felt it was the site that should be prepared the earliest.”

Additionally, Cross says the 60,000-square-foot Metals Purchasing Building straddles Hudson Yards and the next segment of the High Line, the elevated park being built on disused railroad right of way. The terra firma segment of the Hudson Yards site had also been used until recently as a staging area for the New York City Department of Environmental Protection’s ongoing Water Tunnel No. 3 project. “They’ve finished their work, they’ve cleared out and now we can move in and use it as a staging area,” he says.

Much of the site will be built on a platform over the LIRR’s tracks, which are in daily use by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, from which Related Oxford is leasing the site. With factors such as ventilation and life safety issues being taken into account, “we feel the platform design is really starting to come together, and our intention is to go back into the construction marketplace early in 2011 to test our assumptions,” says Cross.

The idea is to finalize the platform design during the course of next year, he adds, so that construction on the platform could begin as early as 2012.
“That’s predicated on the assumption that we would reach our first major tenant deal” next year and therefore be in a position to have to start work in ’12.

To date, that first major tenant hasn’t materialized, although the New York Post reported last month that luxury goods maker Coach Inc. is considering the site. “First and foremost, our challenge is in getting the word out that the Yards are ready to go,” says Cross.

He notes that the Number 7 subway line extension to the Far West Side is on schedule to be completed by 2014, and as for Hudson Yards itself, “all of our agreements are in place with the MTA and all of our approvals are in place with the city. Really, there’s nothing contingent on our starting except securing tenants. That’s news to a lot of people.” Once it’s more generally known, Cross predicts it will get tenant momentum going.

“In particular, the large user market is realizing that there aren’t great chunks of space available,” he says. “And for these large users, the lead times are considerable, because they’re moving a lot of employees. For anyone looking at a lease expiry in 2015, 2016 or 2017, all of a sudden we’ve become a pretty viable option.”

Related Oxford will not be obligated to close on the deal with the MTA, and start paying its 99-year lease, until Midtown’s office availability rate declines to 11%, apartment sale prices reach an average $1,200 per square foot and the AIA Architectural Billings Index hits 50. The latter two of those triggers have already been met, as Cross noted during a RealShare New York panel discussion in October. As for Midtown’s availability rate reaching the contractual threshold, Cross says it’s reasonable to expect that to happen “during the next nine to 15 months.”
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Last edited by NYguy; Mar 31, 2011 at 5:15 AM.
     
     
  #279  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2011, 2:30 PM
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Where did Cuozzo get that 21 MSF figure?

I always thought it was around 12 MSF combined for both "yards."
     
     
  #280  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2011, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Where did Cuozzo get that 21 MSF figure?

I always thought it was around 12 MSF combined for both "yards."

Yeah, the entire Hudson Yards redevelopment is somewhere around 40 msf. The railyards won't make half of that, so it's more likely closer to 12, still large enough to be the largest ongoing development in Manhattan.



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Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
http://www.hydc.org/html/project/mta-rail.shtml

Eastern Rail Yard
The eastern portion of the rail yard is an approximately 13-acre site located between West 30th and West 33rd Streets from 10th to 11th Avenues. The ERY was rezoned in January 2005 to accommodate approximately 6.6 million gross square feet of mixed-use development, including office, residential, hotel, retail, cultural and parking facilities, and public open space. The zoning controls for the site require approximately 7 acres of public open space, including a significant public plaza. Additionally, it is anticipated that development of the ERY will include a major new cultural facility. The High Line connects to the southern edge of the site.


Western Rail Yard
The western portion of the rail yard is an approximately 13 acre site located between West 30th and West 33rd Streets from 11th to 12th Avenues. The WRY was rezoned in December 2009 to accommodate approximately 6 million gross square feet of mixed-use development, including office, residential, hotel, retail, cultural and parking facilities, and public open space. The developer has also made a commitment to build up a minimum of 265 permanently affordable rental units on the WRY, and an additional minimum of 166 permanently affordable units on either the WRY or ERY, in either rental or condominium buildings, for a total of 431 permanently affordable units. The High Line connects to the southern and western edges of the WRY.
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