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  #4021  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte View Post
Or provided on a high level enough that it is pretty much glossed over entirely. I find "Canadian History" is typically pretty specific to upper and lower canada. Politcally it makes sense because that was and is the dominant story that lead to the creation of "Canada". The history of the rest of the country is often a sidebar at best until the two stories merge.
I think the truth is closer to "history is written by the victors". The parts of Canada that are most powerful today are the ones where most of the stories get written and they tend to pay the most attention to their own history, whether or not those events were more significant when they happened. As a consequence the stories don't always make sense and a lot of people don't understand why we are where we are today.

The Louisbourg example I gave illustrates this point. The siege of Louisbourg was objectively a larger operation than the siege of Quebec, and Louisbourg was no less strategically important (it controlled the area you have to sail through to get from France to Quebec). It is treated like a historical footnote but it isn't really, even if you're only interested in the history of Upper and Lower Canada. There are many examples like this.
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  #4022  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 10:14 PM
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I think the truth is closer to "history is written by the victors". The parts of Canada that are most powerful today are the ones where most of the stories get written and they tend to pay the most attention to their own history, whether or not those events were more significant when they happened. As a consequence the stories don't always make sense and a lot of people don't understand why we are where we are today.

The Louisbourg example I gave illustrates this point. The siege of Louisbourg was objectively a larger operation than the siege of Quebec, and Louisbourg was no less strategically important (it controlled the area you have to sail through to get from France to Quebec). It is treated like a historical footnote but it isn't really, even if you're only interested in the history of Upper and Lower Canada. There are many examples like this.
I think it's because Canada especially is more interested in institutional history than any sort of national cultural history or narrative. The upper/lower canada history is the most important because it is (generally) that history that lead to the creation of the institutions of Canada. I don't even find Canadian history to be told in a way that is arrogantly central canadian, as if their story should be shared by all of us. The US pulls that off. To me the presentation often feels more utilitarion like "These people ended up in control, and ended up creating a country that we all ended up a part of. These are the circumstances leading to the creation of said country".

For what its worth I knew pratcially no maritime history until I lived in Halifax and had to report on it for school. I also knew hardly any western history until it related to a paper I wrote. Both of these cases were in grad school. In any case, I feel like I gained a much larger appreciation and understanding of these regions that I never got from the plains for abraham.
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  #4023  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2017, 11:38 PM
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I think it's because Canada especially is more interested in institutional history than any sort of national cultural history or narrative. The upper/lower canada history is the most important because it is (generally) that history that lead to the creation of the institutions of Canada.
I am theoretically open to this possibility but I'm not sure this is actually true. Canada consisted of four provinces from the beginning, and they were all British colonies. The colonial institutions generally developed in parallel and depended a lot on what Britain allowed, so the lobbying efforts of any given colony affected the others. Canada's federal institutions weren't all simply inherited from Lower/Upper Canada either. If you look at specifics like responsible government, the Upper/Lower Canada-centric view doesn't actually predict what happened.

Here are two articles about this topic:
http://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhi...el_002_e.shtml
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...le-government/

Note the dramatically different treatment. The first one is from a national museum and it uses dates from NS but only explicitly mentions ON and QC.
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  #4024  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 1:33 AM
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This sentiment reminds me of "let people enjoy things".

I try to avoid these meta posts, but what is the point of policing thread topics like this? If somebody has provincial economy related stuff they are free to post it. The "topic Nazi" posts on the other hand are boring, contribute nothing substantial, and generally only appear because the poster happens not to like the particular tangent.

Usually the best discussions on SSP are kind of off-topic, or are tangents. This makes sense because they develop organically.
Thank you so much for saying this as a moderator. Some of the best discussions on the forum arise off-topic. It is organic, and any time someone has new to say about the topic at hand, they are free to post it and the discussion moves to that again. Conversations can't all be planned and divided according to thread.
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  #4025  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:28 AM
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The likelihood of Quebec becoming a sovereign country has been drastically diminished for various reasons. It would need the approval of Indigenous peoples to go ahead which very few people seem to mention. And many people don't realize that even the strong Quebec separatists still want open borders (no customs or immigration checkpoints) with Canada and to share many things such as currency, military, etc..

The most that would happen if the "OUI" side won is for Quebec to become like the Republic of Ireland having an open border with the UK (Northern Ireland). Still free movement of people and goods.

In the age of the Internet, social media and globalization, separation is much less sexy and Quebec is much less isolated.
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  #4026  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:37 AM
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Oh okay. 'Cause over 40% of the GDP is nothing. Cool. We'd totally keep it all then.

I love that these discussions always assume Ontario would want the ROC in the event of Quebec separation. Ontarians would miss Quebec a hell of a lot more than anything east or west of it.
Agreed!
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  #4027  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:45 AM
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Northeastern Ontario has a very close and positive relationship with the neighbouring part of Quebec (Abitibi-Témiscamingue). It's amazing how many of the same resource-based companies you see in the two regions. For example, Timmins companies with offices in Rouyn-Noranda and vice versa. I've also been seeing more Quebeckers visiting Timmins than ever. So many of our issues in two regions are identical yet get overlooked by our provincial governments.
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  #4028  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:47 AM
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Ontario is Quebec's largest trading partner. And Quebec is Ontario's largest trading partner.
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  #4029  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 10:29 AM
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Bad news overall, but one good note bolded...

Fewer Newfoundland firms are exporting

Quote:
The latest report card from the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council (APEC) indicates that between 2010 and 2016, the number of exporters in the province dropped from 314 to 288.

Only Prince Edward Island saw an increase above the national average, largely the result of a nine per cent jump in the number of exporters in 2016 alone.

“Increasing the number of firms that export is important, but accelerating the growth of existing exporters also needs consideration,” Fred Bergman, APEC’s senior policy analyst, stated in a news release. “As it stands, large exporters in Atlantic Canada — those employing more than 100 people — accounted for almost three-quarters of the region’s merchandise exports last year, while they comprise 11 per cent of exporting firms.”

According to APEC, doubling the number of exporting companies that employ more than 100 people would increase the Atlantic region’s total exports ports by 74 per cent.

The report also indicated that almost three-quarters of Atlantic region exporters send their products to only one market. Newfoundland and Labrador, with 55 per cent going to the United States and 42 per cent looking to Europe as markets, is the most diverse among the Atlantic provinces.
http://www.thetelegram.com/business/...exporting.html

Iceberg Water for $60/bottle at hotels in Ireland is really paying off.
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  #4030  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 1:18 PM
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Energy East is dead. There was a listing somewhere from 2009 which listed five big economic projects for the province of New Brunswick. I believe four of them are now confirmed not happening or dormant.
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  #4031  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 1:23 PM
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Yep, bad news.
TransCanada won't proceed with Energy East pipeline


Realistically we can expect Transmountain and Keystone XL to be the last major oil pipeline projects to ever go ahead. So can we please stop the BS and actually let Transmountain start construction in a few weeks, seeing as it has been approved at all levels?
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  #4032  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 1:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassCity View Post
Thank you so much for saying this as a moderator. Some of the best discussions on the forum arise off-topic. It is organic, and any time someone has new to say about the topic at hand, they are free to post it and the discussion moves to that again. Conversations can't all be planned and divided according to thread.
I totally agree BTW.

As I've often said, I don't invite people over for dinner or go out to dinner with friends and then impose on straitjacket on them wrt to the topics that we're gonna discuss.
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  #4033  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:21 PM
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That's really unfortunate news for Energy East. A privately funded infrastructure project, built to the highest standards, that would generate billions of dollarss of tax revenue for all levels of government, across the entire country.

Meanwhile the government gives a privately funded aerospace corporation based in Quebec, which produces some of the most intensive ghg emissions worldwide, billions of dollars. I really wouldn't care if this, if Quebec supported EE. Kind of like a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" type of mutual agreement. But it's not that way, so it does become infuriating.

...Meanwhile, the trial for the Lac Megantic train derailment that killed 47 people just got underway this week.
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  #4034  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:25 PM
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... and Montreal mayor Denis Coderre actually calls this cancellation "a major victory"...
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  #4035  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:27 PM
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... and Montreal mayor Denis Coderre actually calls this cancellation "a major victory"...
But he's a complete tool ....
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  #4036  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:30 PM
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But he's a complete tool ....
From the Toronto Star:

Meanwhile, Montreal Mayor Denis Coderre celebrated the Energy East announcement on Thursday, suggesting in a series of tweets that citizen groups and local politicians from the Montreal-area played a key role in putting a stop to the project.

Coderre and numerous other elected officials had argued the environmental risks associated with it far outweighed the economic benefits.

“The abandonment of the Energy East project is a major victory for the municipal world,” Coderre wrote.
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  #4037  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:31 PM
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You only seem to comment on issues relating to the oil industry. I wonder.
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  #4038  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 2:43 PM
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No I dont, MolsonExport.

What do you wonder?
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  #4039  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:32 PM
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Energy East is dead. There was a listing somewhere from 2009 which listed five big economic projects for the province of New Brunswick. I believe four of them are now confirmed not happening or dormant.
I guess this is true everywhere but Atlantic Canada's provincial governments seem particularly obsessed with the idea of luring in megaprojects or big corporations. Meanwhile they have traditionally not done a great job of supporting the homegrown entrepreneurs who are more naturally inclined to stay in the region. Funding for job training or incubators or simple tax cuts to encourage business would do a lot more than handing hundreds of millions of dollars over to a giant company like IBM, or spending billions to keep steel mills around, or most other conceivable corporate welfare schemes and moonshot megaprojects.

In recent years the #1 factor affecting the bottom line demographics in the Maritimes is simply that they are starting to run immigration programs competently, and successfully lobbied to raise the extremely low federally-imposed caps.
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  #4040  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2017, 3:39 PM
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Same with us. The Democracy Cookbook (media and activist attempt to reform NL and make us truly democratic) addressed it just yesterday:

The Hero's Energy

Quote:
In politics, the leaders who are sometimes described as heroes evidently imagine governance and even democracy as a battle or contest. Listen for martial metaphors in politics — attack ads, war rooms, strategic planning — and you will hear them everywhere, sometimes as a sports/ war metaphor that encourages fans to be receptive to war as a game and to male domination. They appear, too, in business and can be “barriers to effective organizational change” when change might help more women to reach executive positions not only in corporations but also in organizations and governments. These metaphors are one example of evidence of a heroic mindset that is only rarely progressive.

In Newfoundland and Labrador, hydroelectricity and oil are central in narratives of boom and bust. Joey Smallwood’s Churchill Falls hydroelectric project and Brian Peckford’s focus on development through natural resources have both been described in the media and in political circles as heroic. Peckford might be described as the “selfless superhero” fighting against the legacy of Smallwood the “devil,” but in fact they can both be interpreted as “superheroes” or “supervillains,” depending on your point of view. We might add Danny Williams and his “fight” for offshore oil, and Kathy Dunderdale of Muskrat Falls. They are all public figures whose major focus on energy has been a power play to create economic stability (that hallmark of heroism) through economic growth.

Megaprojects overshadow smaller projects and their contributions to the economy. And the polarizing of opinion that comes with megaprojects involves suspicion. A key difference between classic heroes and modern superheroes is that, today, superheroes usually have a secret identity or a mask. If the public senses that politicians want to be heroes (e.g., through a legacy project), they expect them to wear masks. They expect deceit. When public confidence in politicians is low, legitimate government is difficult to maintain.

Co-operation between heroes is not the answer because, according to the narratives of the Avengers and the Justice League, teaming up only widens the scope of the damage. In these recent superhero movies, the public momentarily turns against the superheroes partly because of the damage they cause in defeating their enemies. The “team” is just a sign of escalation in the war.

The metaphors related to heroism could be replaced with non-heroic metaphors of interdependence. Dispersed and local but connected power generation could be not only more reliable but also more innovative and greener. 

Questioning the hero as a figure (that is, as a public figure and as a product of figurative language) and seeking non-heroic leaders might help, too. Coalition governments based on non-partisan co-operation might be an outcome. Another result might be more women in city councils and legislatures. More people — not only women — who do not usually think of themselves as potential leaders might participate if the ideal were humbler, less heroic. When politicians are superheroes, people sometimes learn helplessness, and the almost inevitable electoral failure of any politician can lead to apathy rather than engagement.
http://www.thetelegram.com/opinion/2...d-labrado.html
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