PHILADELPHIA | River Walk | Two Towers | 363 FT & 315 FT | 32 FLOORS & 28 FLOORS - Page 16

SEFTA · #**301** Posted **Sep 20, 2017, 9:32 PM**

This was on the site. Could this be the connection to the trail?

Knight Hospitaller · #**302** Posted **Sep 20, 2017, 10:02 PM**

^ No. That big train on the left is in the way. I saw no provision for a grade crossing and clearly there's no over/under pass depicted.

summersm343 · #**303** Posted **Sep 20, 2017, 11:54 PM**

http://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/pr...on_reduced.pdf

reparcsyks · #**304** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 12:45 AM**

Could be worse. The new renders are kind of growing on me. I'll call them "The Books."

hammersklavier · #**305** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 1:00 AM**

There doesn't seem to be any new connections across CSX. Instead, they've extended the bike trail that already runs between the tracks and the Presby apartments parking garage through their site to an Arch St. terminus.

I think a solution that would be worth considering here would be locating a bridge crossing at Cherry. The parking garage appears to just be a blank wall along the trail anyway so you can ramp up alongside it, turn the trail between Race and Cherry into a ramp, and build a stairwell at the base of Cherry, a really space-compact and ornamental kind. And of course build down ramps on the other side. Heck, you could extend the bridge out over the Banks and to the river to make a viewing deck and add some shady seating under it.

Greg Meckstroth · #**306** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 1:26 AM**

Who is going to drive here to frequent the retail? It isn't as if it is an easy site to get to as is. Clearly, it will rely on walkers and cyclists. If the retail parking were simply removed it would go a long way towards improving the access strategy. At present there are 4 points of access for cars/trucks. That's a lot of frontage ruined. I'm also surprised the land economics of the site wouldn't warrant basement facilities for servicing. Is it a floodplain issue? Can't basements be flooded...?

Mr Saturn64 · #**307** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 2:06 AM**

Well, if I do say so myself, these renderings look better than the last. Sure, the height is kind of a bummer, given that everything in this area seems to be shrinking. It may be more of my personal taste, but I think these ones are much better.

Not to sound like a NIMBY, but I had a question. One of my favorite things about going into the city via Regional Rail is the view of the Art Museum standing on top of the hill over the river. It makes me feel good every time I see it. If I recall, you don't actually see that until once you're actually over the river, right?

mcgrath618 · #**308** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 11:07 AM**

There is a grade level crossing like, two blocks to the north.

iheartphilly · #**309** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 1:13 PM**

If these get built, I think they will turn out a lot better looking than the rendering. And, I do like the narrow design, given that it's 2 buildings and not one. Its got a modern design feeling to them and fits well along the river with the other new(er) glass high rises.

Londonee · #**310** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

If these get built, I think they will turn out a lot better looking than the rendering.

Then that will be the first time in the history of renderings. If it doesn't look good in a rendering (designed to look their best: clean, crisp, alive and active, magic hour with warm glows) - it ain't gonna look good in real life. Renderings are like LinkedIn headshots or wedding photos - it's the best they're ever gonna look.

I guess I'm most disappointed that a huge swath of street frontage on 23rd street - like 60-70% of a pretty large block - is just going to be garage podium cladding. I feel like as urbanists we should all agree on this, no?

Not sure why they couldn't have added a few more retail spots along the stretch: a brunch spot, landromat, a pet store - ya know stuff for the 'hood. Doesn't have to be a late-night, loud bar. It's not like this neighborhood is saturated with local retail as it is.

iheartphilly · #**311** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 2:26 PM**

^
Your 1st paragraph is quite dramatic...in the history like everyone in history has agreed with your opinion. Take a look at the Evo @Cira Center South rendering and look at the building in real life. The glass curtain in real life is a lot better looking and more detailed than the rendering showed. To each their own.

JohnIII · #**312** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 2:30 PM**

When I see this proposal I'm pondering the potential it can have on the city overall just at a glance; I apologize in advance for not looking over all the details of the proposal as of yet.

The 2 buildings have a good design and will look very light and cutting edge next to the dark PECO Building from the 1970's; the PECO Building actually helps the design because they play off of it.

The 2 buildings will add to the canyon affect of JFK Boulevard and extend the affect further towards 30th street instead of 20th street where it pretty much ends now. If one is coming into Philadelphia from I-95 north these buildings will extend the skyline and fill in the gap that exists between the PECO Building and FMC Building with the Cira Building appearing even further to the right of that. Also from the northwest view when one enters Philadelphia from the Pennsylvania Turnpike or from New York or Boston; these buildings will fill in the gap in the skyline between the Murano Condos and the PECO Building while not blocking the iconic lights on its crown from the Parkway or the Schuylkill Expressway respectively.

I'm see 2 other pretty interesting ideas on this proposal. To the south they could build up to 500' and mentioned before which is pretty cool and then there is something else from the 30th Street Plan that may affect the connectivity of this proposal. There was some discussion to build steps between 23rd Street and JFL Boulevard and there was discussion to build a Walkway Bridge on Race Street that would connect the area to 30th Street because currently there this is an isolated area between the Regional Rail Lines to the south; the river to the west and the Vine Street Expressway to the north; with these other plans; the 30th Street Plan may help the River Walk Plan with connectivity in a decade or so.

jsbrook · #**313** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 4:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartphilly

^
Your 1st paragraph is quite dramatic...in the history like everyone in history has agreed with your opinion. Take a look at the Evo @Cira Center South rendering and look at the building in real life. The glass curtain in real life is a lot better looking and more detailed than the rendering showed. To each their own.

I think MOST renderings do look better than reality. I think that's probably fairly non-controversial. A categorical statement is wrong, though. There are SOME projects that have turned out better than their renderings. As to this one, I quite like the rendering.

jsbrook · #**314** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 4:21 PM**

I wish the above-ground railroad track heading into Center City could be covered and patched over and made into some kind of greenway. Not sure of the logistics there and there are no funds to divert to that now in any case. Maybe in 100 years.

1487 · #**315** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 5:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I wish the above-ground railroad track heading into Center City could be covered and patched over and made into some kind of greenway. Not sure of the logistics there and there are no funds to divert to that now in any case. Maybe in 100 years.

CCD estimates turning the remainder of the viaduct into park would cost $50-$60M.

jsbrook · #**316** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 5:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487

CCD estimates turning the remainder of the viaduct into park would cost $50-$60M.

Thanks for the info. Not surprising. Not the highest and best use of funds right now. But maybe one day.

hammersklavier · #**317** Posted **Sep 21, 2017, 9:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

There is a grade level crossing like, two blocks to the north.

In theory the grade crossing is to be replaced by an elevated crossing somewhere along this stretch, which might've been a court-ordered requirement. At least I think the bridge they put in linking the Banks to the Schuylkill River Park was court-ordered?

Justin7 · #**318** Posted **Sep 22, 2017, 12:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Londonee

I guess I'm most disappointed that a huge swath of street frontage on 23rd street - like 60-70% of a pretty large block - is just going to be garage podium cladding. I feel like as urbanists we should all agree on this, no?

Not sure why they couldn't have added a few more retail spots along the stretch: a brunch spot, landromat, a pet store - ya know stuff for the 'hood. Doesn't have to be a late-night, loud bar. It's not like this neighborhood is saturated with local retail as it is.

I agree completely, but your mistake is the assumption that this board has more than a few urbanists. Most people here just like tall buildings.

cafeguy · #**319** Posted **Sep 22, 2017, 1:15 PM**

The best solution to a connection to the rivertrail is to connect to JFK instead. at 23rd st...

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9553...7i13312!8i6656

OR...go under the tracks at the building's western edge and up to JFK. There's enough room, but it would require the city working with them to build something of that nature.

SEFTA · #**320** Posted **Sep 22, 2017, 1:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by cafeguy

The best solution to a connection to the rivertrail is to connect to JFK instead. at 23rd st...

This would be a great solution.
Make the north side of JFK, between 20th St and 30th St Station, a pedestrian friendly Greenway/Promenade. The space between the blvd and the rails would be connections to 21st, 22nd & 23rd Streets. Greenway ending at rivertrail connection.

JFK Greenway 3