CHICAGO | General Developments - Page 1791

emathias · #**35801** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 8:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanbydesign

...
I agree about your impressions of Portland, though I think other municipalities are also trying to engineer the car-free lifestyle. But living there has colored my world view of how cities ought to plan, I assume. Part of my surprise about development patterns here were things like a McDonalds (or banks)with a drive through in the west loop, big box stores right by the red line, and all these parking off sets near major transit nodes.
...

I grew up in and around Portland but have lived in Chicago most of the time since 1995. I like Portland, although it feels tiny now when I visit.

I also think that Portland talks a better game about transit and urban development than it actually executes - it executes well, I won't deny that, but it talks even better. It's really not very dense at all and yet it still expands its growth boundaries, which is one of the things I mean by it talking a better game than it actually executes.

As far as big box stores go, as much as I like the ideal of a beautiful city chock-a-block full of quaint small shops carrying every item known to man in their own dedicated market the reality of modern civilization is that big box stores carry a lot of our modern essentials at prices that beat most small shops. Blocking their construction and availability in the city means either that the City loses the sales taxes from them as people drive (or even take transit, in some cases) to the suburbs to take advantage of lower prices and wider selection, or the City increases the push of the middle class out, furthering the economic division in the city between classes.

It very well may be undesirable to have big box stores in the central area, but it's also undesirable to have an economic monoculture in the City. I've worked in or near the Loop for most of 21 years and lived in the Central Area (River North, the Gold Coast, Old Town and the West Loop) for 16 of those. It is more expensive to live in the Central Area, and only part of that is due to the higher real estate prices. Another big reason is that stores in the Central Area charge more for items than stores in other neighborhoods. Having big box stores in the area helps offset that. I know it comes at a cost, but it also carries some degree of value, value that I think can't be ignored just out of idealism.

LouisVanDerWright · #**35802** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 1:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

I'm not sure how you 'worked on' condos, but my information is coming directly from developers that I have designed for and who've made a career in working in downtown Chicago - attempting to make money. If you read correctly, I didn't necessarily say that they built less than 1:1, but they didn't sell 1:1. If you're familiar with the downtown real estate market (I also have a managing broker's license) in most of the larger condo developments with regard to resale it is rather easy to purchase or, if necessary, rent a space in the same project if the condo in question doesn't come with a space... but, alas, this is rarely a problem. In the current climate where most of the developments are designed for rental - not even for a quick flip to condos - and for a clientele that might just spend a good part of their life renting, they are 'selling' even less parking...

Most of these luxury condo buyer's, or sellers, could give a * about whether their multi-million dollar condo is married to a 50k, at most, parking space... the reality is, the spaces are always there to be had...

OK Mr. Expert. You do realize that most of us regular posters also work in the industry. I know for a fact that Ardecila works directly for one of those developers you speak of. He's not out of the loop. Also having a managing brokers license is no crowning accomplishment, I've had one since I was in college. All it takes $600 and not being a total moron (though now you need to toil for two years under a managing broker before you can get a "managing" title). The majority of managing brokers I know are dangerously incompetent. Point being drop the high and mighty attitude, there are a lot of experts on here that are less boastful than you or I.

killaviews · #**35803** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 3:11 PM**

Chicago has a complicated history. Most old big cities do. The young educated people flocking to cities like Portland and Denver have the ability to put a stamp on a city without dealing with such a complicated history.

There was a time in Chicago where an L stop near your home might not be a perk. People though trains just brought criminals to the neighborhood. Urban renewal programs tore down dense communities.

You might see a street that lacks bars and restaurants today because that neighborhood was voted dry probably in the 70s, 80s or 90 and is still dry today. The idea that bars and trains could be bad for a neighborhood sounds crazy now, but there was a time when it was reality. The new generation that loves cities and read City Lab every day probably forget this history.

the urban politician · #**35804** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 3:33 PM**

A good primer on understanding Chicago is the book "City of the Century"

A lot of things that didn't make sense about the city all come together after you read that book. Not only the politics but the built environment. My only complaint is that there isn't a Volume 2 that covers the 20th century.

Mr Downtown · #**35805** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 3:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanbydesign

Part of my surprise about development patterns here were things like a McDonalds (or banks)with a drive through in the west loop, big box stores right by the red line, and all these parking off sets near major transit nodes.

Chicago has always been run by developers. Developers do what makes money in their timeframe, not what the CNU is excited about in any given year.

In the last half-century, most of the city has not been in an economic position to reject any development, much less turn up its nose at a Target store. If a drive-thru made money for the bank or restaurant, that was never the city's business. We only got "pedestrian street" designations (limiting curb cuts) in the 2004 zoning reform. Chicago has no comprehensive plan to guide zoning; Illinois doesn't require one. It's massively ironic that the city where city planning was invented in 1909 has so thoroughly rejected the idea since 1930. (In fact, when you look closely at the Plan of Chicago you discover that it was all about public investment to help landowners make more money, and was promoted to business leaders exactly that way.)

Portland of the last 40 years is American city planning's greatest success story. Chicago is the last of the 19th-century totally uncontrolled and unplanned cities. It's no wonder you might experience a bit of shock if your attitudes were shaped in one and you moved to the other.

emathias · #**35806** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 3:52 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician

A good primer on understanding Chicago is the book "City of the Century"

A lot of things that didn't make sense about the city all come together after you read that book. Not only the politics but the built environment. My only complaint is that there isn't a Volume 2 that covers the 20th century.

The Pig and the Skyscraper is also a great book about Chicago.

spyguy · #**35807** Posted **Dec 24, 2016, 5:51 PM**

Cornelia and Lincoln - 18 units

ardecila · #**35808** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 1:14 AM**

^ For a second I thought this was replacing Paulina Market, but looks like it's cater-corner. Phew!

denizen467 · #**35809** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 8:47 AM**

^ For a sec I thought you were lamenting losing the adult toy store on that block..

Quote:

Originally Posted by MultiModal

It does include extending the base to the sidewalk on the south side and moving the entry to the skydeck.

Hang on, are they forever abandoning the idea of a tower on that space? Kind of hard to believe them giving up that unrealized value. (Wrong thread, I know.)

KWILLSKYLINE · #**35810** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 3:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolarWind

December 20, 2016

Is is part of the the riverwalk project to renovate all of these along the river or does this go under an entire seperate project? I thought they are working on the wells/lake st. houses as well?

Mr Downtown · #**35811** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 3:31 PM**

At least since the 1990s, CDOT is a pretty good steward of the moveable bridges, including the bridgehouses. These are being rebuilt as part of the Adams bridge reconstruction.

For fun, here's an image I use when lecturing about the bridges, showing what it looked like shortly after construction (1928) and in 2011:

pilsenarch · #**35812** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 3:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright

OK, Mr. Expert.... Point being drop the high and mighty attitude, there are a lot of experts on here that are less boastful than you or I.

OK, I apologise for any 'high and mighty.' I was simply attempting to establish a basis for my experience... Both as a designer/architect of downtown towers and as a an occasional rep for downtown residential real estate...

I'd appreciate any forumer doing the same...

ardecila · #**35813** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 8:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilsenarch

OK, I apologise for any 'high and mighty.' I was simply attempting to establish a basis for my experience... Both as a designer/architect of downtown towers and as a an occasional rep for downtown residential real estate...

I'd appreciate any forumer doing the same...

Possibly some downtown locations don't have a 1:1 demand for parking, especially if you're selling a lot of pied-a-terre highrise units.

Most of the condos we've sold in exclusively small buildings in River North, River West, and more outlying neighborhoods like Wicker Park are sold to families or couples (occasionally singles) looking for a full-time residence and almost always one parking space if not two. I won't deny that there was some selection bias, but we always sell parking separately from the units on condo projects and we've had exactly two buyers (out of about 100) who chose not to buy parking. Many agents will push buyers to get the space for resale value even if they don't plan on using it, because in a small building (<20 units) the spots don't come on the market very often.

Kumdogmillionaire · #**35814** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 8:26 PM**

Condos along Wells and Financial. Don't know the name but I already want them torn down. Also looks like the developer was too cheap to bury the powerlines... What a shame

ardecila · #**35815** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 8:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

Condos along Wells and Financial. Don't know the name but I already want them torn down. Also looks like the developer was too cheap to bury the powerlines... What a shame

I'm pretty sure the overhead wires are temporary. CMK is doing the huge Riverline across the street and CDOT is going to rebuild this section for Wells-Wentworth Connector, so I don't think those overhead wires will be there for long.

harryc · #**35816** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 8:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire

Condos along Wells and Financial. Don't know the name but I already want them torn down. Also looks like the developer was too cheap to bury the powerlines... What a shame

n.b. the total lack of windows on the ground level. This helps preserve the character of the neighborhood - vacant, hostile, downright dangerous.

Discourages those pesky pedestrians and assures that the on street parking will be free for the residents, not taken up by shoppers or diners.

LouisVanDerWright · #**35817** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 10:43 PM**

Good news is this development is small enough that it will be easily gobbled up by a developer looking to build a big ass tower in 20-30 years once all the Riverline vacant land is mopped up and this area is the next Streeterville/LSE. That will be a thrilling day to see when the demo claw takes its first bite out of this trash. In the meantime that 5' tall clean white concrete block base will make an excellent canvas for the local street rats to tag with half assed 10' long tags which will no doubt be sandblasted off leaving an event larger version of the tag etched into the concrete.

emathias · #**35818** Posted **Dec 27, 2016, 11:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila

Possibly some downtown locations don't have a 1:1 demand for parking, especially if you're selling a lot of pied-a-terre highrise units.

Most of the condos we've sold in exclusively small buildings in River North, River West, and more outlying neighborhoods like Wicker Park are sold to families or couples (occasionally singles) looking for a full-time residence and almost always one parking space if not two. ...

I think condos usually have a higher bias toward owners wanting parking than apartments do for renters. I don't think of that as a problem, per se, especially with a move toward more renters.

SolarWind · #**35819** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 2:09 AM**

December 27, 2016

Quite noticeable on a dreary winter's day.

SolarWind · #**35820** Posted **Dec 28, 2016, 2:10 AM**

December 27, 2016