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  #21  
Old Posted May 13, 2018, 11:44 PM
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Thank you for your help! This is what we are demolishing with almost no discussion except for people who care about preservation (which is limited). These buildings are in great or decent shape and could have been incorporated into a new plan (buy facademy or reuse). The Chicago Architecture Foundation use their income from architecture tours to advocate saving architecture - what a novel thought hehe

Burnham Desc by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Demolished! By Daniel Burnham in the trendy West Loop

burnham 1 by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Prairie Style Factory by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Rowhome by Chicagooan, on Flickr

They should have been required to save the facade and build behind.
Workers Cottage by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Here is the crap they replace greystones with.
Kedzie Graystones by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Lakeview RowHome by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Ravenswood Victorian by Chicagooan, on Flickr

A compromise would have been great - just save the facade, include a set back, and build more density above!
Humboldt by Chicagooan, on Flickr
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  #22  
Old Posted May 13, 2018, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpireGuy View Post
Thank you for your help! This is what we are demolishing with almost no discussion except for people who care about preservation (which is limited). These buildings are in great or decent shape and could have been incorporated into a new plan (buy facademy or reuse). The Chicago Architecture Foundation use their income from architecture tours to advocate saving architecture - what a novel thought hehe

Burnham Desc by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Demolished! By Daniel Burnham in the trendy West Loop

burnham 1 by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Prairie Style Factory by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Rowhome by Chicagooan, on Flickr

They should have been required to save the facade and build behind.
Workers Cottage by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Here is the crap they replace greystones with.
Kedzie Graystones by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Lakeview RowHome by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Ravenswood Victorian by Chicagooan, on Flickr

A compromise would have been great - just save the facade, include a set back, and build more density above!
Humboldt by Chicagooan, on Flickr
PowerPlant Desc by Chicagooan, on Flickr

PowerPlant 2 by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Wicker Row Homes by Chicagooan, on Flickr

Remember all this was demoed or approved for demolition in the PAST 6 MONTH ALONE! No discussion in anyway.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 13, 2018, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
From SpireGuy's flickr:




Why the F would anyone demolish those? They seemed solid enough. There's no market on this planet too expensive to make rehabbing buildings like this financially viable.

Unless they're in the CBD and in the middle of other expensive vacant lots, allowing for land assembly suitable for a skyscraper or something, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Yep. If Chicago were DC or Boston, there is no question that these would be saved. At least in Toronto they would save the facade, require a small setback, and build behind them.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 13, 2018, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by pip View Post
Buildings like this. I do admit they are doing a way better job with the new than 15-20 years ago


This is a few buildings down from me. They torn down a beautiful old grey stone for this
Also, many of the greystones they demolish have gardened-courtyards and coach houses. Developers take up the entire lot with new buildings and leave no room for stormwater runoff or green space.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 2:38 PM
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whats happenings in this city is absolute insanity. developers who do this sort of shit have a special place in hell.

whats even the point of "progress" if it comes at the expense of buildings like this? we are overwhelmingly trading down, but unfortunately this isnt something most people think about in their day to day lives. they just buy the marketing of whatever it is theyre being sold at that exact moment.

you want to really get a sense of whats being lost, follow the Urban Remains blog (photos below courtesy). still only capturing a fraction of the situation

https://www.urbanremainschicago.com/news-and-events


























Last edited by Via Chicago; May 14, 2018 at 2:49 PM.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 3:02 PM
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i used to be naive enough to think the city was insulated from this sort of thing. all the new money idiots were confined to their pens in Naperville and Hindsale and Barrington or the north shore. and not to diminish the teardowns that happened in the suburbs during the early 00's either, because a lot of beautiful buildings were lost there as well. but there was always this notion that chicago built its environment long ago, and if you wanted to be a part of this city, you had to deal with the housing it offered. radiator heat "scares" you and you require central air? tough shit. dont like walk ups? tough shit. dont like being surrounded by 100 year old warehouses and Craftsman 2 flats? tough shit. this is CHICAGO, this is what the city is, take it or leave it. you dont come into Paris or Vienna and put a wrecking ball into their old world homes, why would you find that sort of behavior acceptable here? boy how wrong i was.

the issue is architectural literacy is near non-existent. and the people buying and demoing these buildings have zero interest in honoring it. i cant tell you how many people i talk to who think old buildings are "gross". dosent matter how beautiful the original hardwood trim and floors are, or how sturdy the limestone foundation is, or how much care went into the exterior brickwork by the type of European craftsman who will never live again nor have his kind of homes mass marketed to the working man. and the irony is that now even taking good care and restoring a historic property is no longer enough. if its in the kind of neighborhood that someone wants to throw up a McMansion, it will come down for it in the blink of an eye. its truly disheartening to see this play out. people treat these buildings like theyre some sort of inexhaustable supply. people didnt think they could hunt the buffalo to extinction either.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 3:37 PM
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Is Chicago really any different than the other legacy cities in this regard? Destroying pre-war highrises in New York for some ugly glass skyscraper seems to be a regular occurrence. Chicago has room to develop without destroying the old though.
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  #28  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 4:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pip View Post
It's happening all over Lakeview where I live. It's too bad. I have never seen a city destroy so much of it's old housing stock as Chicago
Unfortunately, there are many other cities that have allowed the destruction of much of their old housing stock as well, pip. It's not just a Chicago issue.

That being said, it's amazing how many of those old, stately three and six-flats looked gorgeous on the outside but were generally in horrendous condition on the inside. Anyone who's been looking for reasonably-priced apartments, generally in the older buildings can attest to that fact. Plumbing, wiring, fixtures, kitchens all from many decades ago, walls that have cracked and settled without repairs done to correct for the inherent settling that's occurred, that kind of thing. So many layers of paint that doors don't open and close correctly, floors that haven't been maintained in probably decades... And of course appliances from the Nixon administration!

I really wish facade-ectomoies were more of a "thing". Save the amazing architectural details, start over from scratch with everything else. It's a reasonable trade-off in many cases.

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  #29  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 4:15 PM
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As urban centers get hotter and hotter in terms of real-estate, these old houses really have to show some architectural or historical merit to warrant preservation otherwise, they will not survive. Chicago is affordable as far as global centers go and I'm surprised this hasn't happened decades ago. AT least, (per bnk's posts) some of the replacement homes are attempting to emulate the homes being replaced. The old Craftsman bungalows here in Houston re being replaced by forgettable cheap crap.
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  #30  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
I really wish facade-ectomoies were more of a "thing". Save the amazing architectural details, start over from scratch with everything else. It's a reasonable trade-off in many cases.
the gut-rehab thing (rip everything down to the masonry shell) is certainly a "thing" here.

i live in a gut-rehabbed 3-flat in lincoln square. the original owner of our unit told me a flipper gut-rehabbed the building in the the late 90's because the interior had been utterly destroyed by the building being a drug house for a couple decades. when the flipper acquired the building, it had no functional plumbing, electrical, or heating systems. and unrepaired roof/window leaks had lead to rotting in the structural members.

thankfully the masony shell was salvageable so now we have a fully modern home, but from the street the building looks much as it did a century ago when it was built in 1920 (save for the windows; the the flipper cheaped-out with vinyl shit, but they always do that because quality windows are very expensive).
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Last edited by Steely Dan; May 14, 2018 at 7:33 PM.
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  #31  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 6:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
I really wish facade-ectomoies were more of a "thing". Save the amazing architectural details, start over from scratch with everything else. It's a reasonable trade-off in many cases.

Aaron (Glowrock)
Facade-ectomies are a thing in Chicago...I live on THIS block in the western half of Lake View (near Wrigley), it is almost 100% fully intact, and about 75% of the houses are fully gut rehabs, where 3 of the 4 exterior sides have been rebuilt.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 7:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Investing In Chicago View Post
Facade-ectomies are a thing in Chicago...I live on THIS block in the western half of Lake View (near Wrigley), it is almost 100% fully intact, and about 75% of the houses are fully gut rehabs, where 3 of the 4 exterior sides have been rebuilt.
That's a great block! Facademies are primarily used when a building is landmarked and developers want to build, but the historic features only apply to the exterior. It's cheaper to bulldoze a building and that's what most developers do. On that particular block in Lakeview, I suspect wealthy families redeveloped the homes and wanted to preserve the greystone exteriors. While great, this is not the norm in Chicago.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 7:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SpireGuy View Post
On that particular block in Lakeview, I suspect wealthy families redeveloped the homes and wanted to preserve the greystone exteriors. While great, this is not the norm in Chicago.
This is exactly what happened, the block isn't landmarked, but there is an unwritten rule of don't tear down greystones on this block. 3600 and 3700 blocks of Magnolia subscribe to the same mentality, though there are a lot more un renovated greystones on those blocks.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
the gut-rehab thing (rip everything down to the masonry shell) is certainly a "thing" here.

i live in a gut-rehabbed 3-flat in lincoln square. the original owner of our unit told me a flipper gut-rehabbed the building in the the late 90's because the interior had been utterly destroyed by the building being a drug house for a couple decades. when the flipper acquired the building, it had no functional plumbing, electrical, or heating systems. and unrepaired roof/window leaks had lead to rotting in the structural members.

thankfully the masony shell was salvageable so now we have a fully modern home, but from the street the building looks much as it did a century ago when it was built in 1920 (save for the windows; the the flipper cheaped-out with vinyl shit, but they always do that because quality windows are very expensive).
True enough, Steely... Gut-rehabs ARE a thing, but I've also see a number of units that SAY they were gut-rehabs but if they were they were done very poorly. When done right, they're amazing, no doubt about it though!

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  #35  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SpireGuy View Post
That's a great block! Facademies are primarily used when a building is landmarked and developers want to build, but the historic features only apply to the exterior. It's cheaper to bulldoze a building and that's what most developers do. On that particular block in Lakeview, I suspect wealthy families redeveloped the homes and wanted to preserve the greystone exteriors. While great, this is not the norm in Chicago.
I agree on pretty much all counts here, SpireGuy. On this block, which IS a fantastic block, I'm sure wealthier families wound up purchasing these places in probably pretty horrible condition and basically gutted everything but the greystone exterior. It's awesome (and possible because of the neighborhood demographics, no doubt!), but not typical of Chicago.

Greystones are my favorite buildings, actually. I'm always saddened when I see one disappear into oblivion.

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  #36  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 8:38 PM
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It's called a facadomy and the most famous example is the White House; where the shell is the only original part and everything else is actually from the Truman era.
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  #37  
Old Posted May 14, 2018, 9:13 PM
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Originally Posted by glowrock View Post
I agree on pretty much all counts here, SpireGuy. On this block, which IS a fantastic block, I'm sure wealthier families wound up purchasing these places in probably pretty horrible condition and basically gutted everything but the greystone exterior. It's awesome (and possible because of the neighborhood demographics, no doubt!), but not typical of Chicago.

Greystones are my favorite buildings, actually. I'm always saddened when I see one disappear into oblivion.

Aaron (Glowrock)
They were actually all pretty well taken care of, the street immediately east of my block, Magnolia, is a good indicator of what most of these looked like prior to renovation. Well kept, original detailing.
These renovations may not be typical of Chicago as a whole, but this is pretty typical in the Lake View neighborhood. Check out the 1200/1300 W blocks of Eddy, Cornelia, Newport as other examples of Greystones that have been renovated for the next generation to enjoy.

Also, timely real estate listing, friends of mine who are builders (from Ireland) did a full gut rehab of this Greystone...the facade was in such bad shape, they completely rebuilt with new greystones. These two blocks of Newport are landmarked, fyi:

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/83...home/113610964
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  #38  
Old Posted May 15, 2018, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
It's called a facadomy and the most famous example is the White House; where the shell is the only original part and everything else is actually from the Truman era.
Sure about that? I'll let you look up the rest:

Quote:
Urban Dictionary: facadomy
(fasa-do-me) During intercourse, when the male purposefully attempts to...
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  #39  
Old Posted May 15, 2018, 12:21 AM
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Some of the before and after pics are interesting. As a Clevelander I'd be happy to have either the historic structure or the new build that replaced it. Most of the new construction here is mediocre contemporary. And if there was a tear down before it, the original building was likely equally uninteresting.
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  #40  
Old Posted May 16, 2018, 8:40 PM
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http://www.chicagomag.com/real-estat...on-in-Chicago/

An excavator stands over the rubble of what was once a historic building on Washington Boulevard in the West Loop. (Photo: AJ LaTrace)

Is Chicago Experiencing a Historic Preservation Crisis?
By AJ LaTrace
In the West Loop, excavators can still be seen at the site of what was just a few weeks ago a rare industrial building designed by D. H. Burnham & Company, the storied firm led by Daniel Burnham, the legendary Chicago city planner and lead architect for the 1893 World’s Fair. Built over 100 years ago, the three-story masonry building at 1217-1227 W. Washington Boulevard was unceremoniously demolished in April, with its elaborate ornamentation and glazed brick reduced to a pile of rubble.

Developers often harken back to Burnham’s famous “make no little plans” screed when unveiling new proposals for Chicago, but what are Burnham’s words worth when little to no value is attached to the buildings crafted by his firm? Despite the 2015 passage of a new landmark district in the area to protect buildings exactly like this one, the property somehow slipped through the cracks.

The West Loop is not alone however, as several other Chicago communities have seen one-of-a-kind neighborhood buildings demolished without much warning or fanfare this year.

Englewood’s South Side Masonic Temple, a broad-shouldered red brick structure with a near-identical twin in Logan Square, was abruptly razed in January, while buildings of historic nature in Humboldt Park, Edgewater, and along the North Branch have also been lost in recent months. Ongoing preservation battles have sprouted in Logan Square to ensure the future of a former synagogue and in Little Village, an effort to save the shuttered Crawford Station designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst & White is running out of steam and time.

South Side masonic temple chicago
Demolition crews dismantle the South Side Masonic Temple on a cold day in January. Photo: AJ LaTrace
The majority of these buildings were noted as being either architecturally or culturally significant in the Chicago Historic Resources Survey (CHRS), a comprehensive review and tally of historic buildings completed and published by the city in the mid-’90s. While a designation in the survey does not protect buildings from demolition, there are special privileges granted for particularly sensitive ones—such as a 90-day hold on demolition permits—to allow the city and preservationists to further investigate a structure’s historic characteristics and contributions.

The Historic Resources Survey grants a color designation for highlighted buildings, from green, signaling an entry of note, to orange and red, indicating the most significant structures. According to city records of where these more sensitive orange- and red-rated buildings have been demolished, wards that are seeing a major uptick in new development are also ones that are witnessing sometimes dramatic losses in their historic building stock.

Since 2013, there have been 165 entries made in the city’s demolition delay hold list, but not all of the structures listed have been demolished as some applications were eventually withdrawn or tabled. In addition, many of the demolition applications submitted this year are still pending release. However, the wards that have witnessed the most demolition of orange- and red-rated buildings cover neighborhoods such as Lincoln Park, Lakeview, the West Loop, and Logan Square.



The data helps to illustrate that Chicago’s neighborhoods are experiencing a true preservation crisis, says Ward Miller, executive director of Preservation Chicago. Despite the 90-day hold on demolition permits for buildings determined to be historic by the city, Miller says that some city council members have used aldermanic prerogative to fast-track the eventual destruction of significant structures. But more often than not, Miller says that communities and preservation advocates simply do not have enough time to line up a buyer or produce a plan for adaptive reuse when demolition threats surface.

“While three months may seem like an ample amount of time, we find that we’re often scrambling to find stewards for these buildings,” Miller says. “There are some structures that require a lot of conversation and attention—how do you do all of that in the middle of winter and in a three month time?”

Miller also suggests that new development and preservation don’t have to be mutually exclusive, but says that the Chicago Historic Resources Survey exists as a tool to help plan for a community’s future. However, neighborhood preservation advocates have been stretched beyond capacity in recent years, overburdened by frequent demolitions, says Miller.

“I think we’ve experienced that crisis for a number of years now, but idea of working within the framework of historic buildings and investing in them really does create a more complex, more beautiful idea that forces one to go back to the drawing board to get things right.”
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