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  #21  
Old Posted May 19, 2010, 5:20 PM
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I agree with Dado...I think that if the city partners with the developers, I think they will find both short-term and longterm solutions for locations such as this. I think the city is just worried that the feds will annex some of the land from the experimental farm on the south side of Carling near the new proposed developments on the north side. They are worried that the area will get built up too much...
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  #22  
Old Posted May 19, 2010, 9:41 PM
Richard Eade Richard Eade is offline
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Well, I'm glad that there are a couple of others who feel this way. I have long bemoaned the fact that the City didn't 'insist' that every new building constructed along a certain line through the core had to include a future channel for a tunnel. The building owners would be free to use the space until it was needed by the city and the area would not have been taxed. When the city finally needed the tunnel, it would have been a simple case of connecting the segments with shallow cuts across the roads.

But, alas, that would have been planning for the future and Ottawa just doesn't do that.
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  #23  
Old Posted May 27, 2010, 3:46 PM
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http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...position74.htm

ZONING - 855 CARLING AVENUE
ZONAGE - 855, AVENUE CARLING
ACS2010-ICS-PGM-0077 KITCHISSIPPI (15)

(This matter is Subject to Bill 51)

That the Planning and Environment Committee recommend Council approve an amendment to the Zoning By-law 2008-250 to change the zoning of 855 Carling Avenue from MC[24] F(2.5) Schedule 129 and MC F(1.5) to MC[24] F(4.1) Schedule 129, as shown on Document 1 and as detailed in Document 2, as amended by the following
a. that for Area D on Schedule 129, the only permitted use in the three dimensional area measured from below grade to a height of 15.0 metres above grade is a rapid transit network;

And that no further notice be given, pursuant to the Planning Act, subsection 34(17)


CARRIED as amended
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  #24  
Old Posted May 27, 2010, 5:05 PM
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Sounds good...
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  #25  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2010, 7:33 PM
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City approves zoning for 855 Carling Ave. site
Posted Jun 1, 2010
BY PHIL AMBROZIAK
http://www.emcottawawest.ca/20100527...ling+Ave.+site


EMC News – “It’s a case of what we were supposed to get versus what we actually got.”

Those were the words of Kitchissippi ward Coun. Christine Leadman when discussing a May 25 decision by the city’s planning and environment committee to approve a rezoning application for the proposed development of 855 Carling Ave.

“I think it was a poorly designed report,” Coun. Leadman said. “The report was supposed to be the tool to give our solicitor directions in dealing with an OMB (Ontario Municipal Board) appeal, which had been filed by the developer.”
Arnon Corporation is seeking to construct two towers of 56 metres (15 storeys) and 45 metres (12 storeys) in height, connected by a two-storey link. Parking for the development, including 800 above and below-grade spaces, would be located at the north end of the property and accessed by Champagne Ave. It was expected that the OMB would address the application because the city had allowed a 120-day period for dealing with the matter to expire. The reason for this, however, had to do with the potential impact the development could have on the city’s plans for the O-Train

For the full story, please see the June 3 edition of the EM
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  #26  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 5:07 PM
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http://www.emcottawawest.ca/20100603...ation+approved

Rezoning application approved
Posted Jun 3, 2010
BY PHIL AMBROZIAK AND STEPH WILLEMS

EMC News - "It's a case of what we were supposed to get versus what we actually got."

Those were the words of Kitchissippi ward Coun. Christine Leadman when discussing a May 25 decision by the city's planning and environment committee to approve a rezoning application for the proposed development of 855 Carling Ave.

"I think it was a poorly designed report," Coun. Leadman said. "The report was supposed to be the tool to give our solicitor directions in dealing with an OMB (Ontario Municipal Board) appeal, which had been filed by the developer."

Arnon Corporation is seeking to construct two towers of 56 metres (15 stories) and 45 metres (12 stories) in height, connected by a two-storey link. Parking for the development, including 800 above and below-grade spaces, would be located at the north end of the property and accessed by Champagne Ave. It was expected that the OMB would address the application because the city had allowed a 120-day period for dealing with the matter to expire. The reason for this, however, had to do with the potential impact the development could have on the city's plans for the O-Train.

"The reason the application was not dealt with in the 120-day period was a result of the ongoing Carling Ave. LRT environmental assessment," Coun. Leadman continued. "This property sits right on the Carling Ave. LRT link and, when the developer first came forward with a development proposal but without an application, I said this would be a problem. The property sits right on the O-Train line and we would have to look into the possible impact this development could have on that."

An engineering consulting firm was hired to look into this concern, resulting in the delay.

"There was a valid and qualified rationale for the delay in moving the application forward," the councillor noted.

Coun. Leadman explained that the city's solicitor would have explained the reason for the delay to the OMB and that a new application, taking into account the impact to the O-Train line, could then come forward at the committee level for consideration.

"The report that came forward (on May 25) was actually a rezoning application," Coun. Leadman said. "I only learned about it a short time before the meeting through an ad in the newspaper.The rezoning application doesn't have any documentation supporting it - they basically took what should have been direction for staff and turned it into a rezoning application. It shows how poorly done the report was and is a real travesty in terms of the planning process."

The property, currently an overflow parking lot for Civic Hospital workers, was re-zoned a 'Mixed-Use Centre' following the purchase of the property by the applicant, allowing Arnon to propose its development. However, existing height limits conflicted with the applicant's vision. In order to bring the zoning in line with its proposal in time for the OMB hearing (and to be able to respond to government tender calls), Arnon then requested a zoning by-law amendment for an increase in permitted height and a reduction in the front yard setback along Carling Ave., which is what the committee was debating on May 25.

While the amount of available parking spaces (which the applicant said was right in the middle of the permitable range of spots) and the height of the development were issues that Coun. Leadman and Somerset ward Coun. Diane Holmes found contentious, the main focus of the committee centered on the small section of property that, if developed, would prevent future LRT trains from turning onto the Carling Ave corridor.

"If this development is built, that opportunity is gone," said Capital ward Coun. Clive Doucet. "If the project goes forward, how do we connect the north-south (LRT) line with the Carling line?"

Representatives of the applicant stated if the city required that piece of property for a future LRT line, it was up to them to purchase it. They also expressed their frustration with the city for the slow process (and the number) of studies undertaken on its behalf. Holding up a folder containing a stack of papers, one representative said it contained all of the studies that had been performed since 2007.

"I want to get on with life...this is a joke," he said.

In a bid to reach a compromise on the issue, Coun. Holmes introduced a motion containing five items based on the main issues raised that morning. First and foremost was the preservation of the transit corridor for future use.

"This is an appropriate site for intensification, (but) to preclude the ability for rail to make that curve is unconscionable," said Coun. Holmes.

The item, which would see the section of the property preserved from below grade to 15 metres above grade (allowing for development above that point) passed, but the subsequent items contained in the motion - including restrictions on building height and a reduction of parking spaces - didn't.

With the transit corridor protected, the staff report calling for the zoning amendment was carried, with Coun. Doucet's dissent.

Following the meeting, Coun. Leadman said the situation reinforces the negative image the public has of the city's planning process and how it does business.

"It's unfortunate how it was handled," she said. "This kind of thing should not happen - it was incompetently managed. If the city is going to be serious about developing a transit network, it needs to be serious about protecting its transit corridors."

For more information about the application, visit www.ottawa.ca/devapps.

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Jun 3, 2010 at 9:53 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 5:30 PM
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Ummm, so does this mean that some of the appeals of the proposal were passed? All I can tell is that Leadman, Doucet, and Holmes aren't very happy with the outcome. To me, if people are so worried about "FUTURE" LRT, and future this, and future that, they'd best start cowboy'ing the hell up and get these FUTURE projects underway.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 9:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
http://www.emcottawawest.ca/20100603...ation+approved

Rezoning application approved

They also expressed their frustration with the city for the slow process (and the number) of studies undertaken on its behalf. Holding up a folder containing a stack of papers, one representative said it contained all of the studies that had been performed since 2007.

"I want to get on with life...this is a joke," he said.
hmm, whoever this 'representative' is he/she probably won't be getting any favours in the future from Council or staff...sometimes you just have to suck it up, hold your nose and smile nicely to staff and Council.

As an aside, what exactly do staff really do with all of the studies they request.....the list and scope of these is getting longer and longer and the general consensus is that many of them gather dust on a shelf.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2010, 9:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Proof Sheet View Post
hmm, whoever this 'representative' is he/she probably won't be getting any favours in the future from Council or staff...sometimes you just have to suck it up, hold your nose and smile nicely to staff and Council.

As an aside, what exactly do staff really do with all of the studies they request.....the list and scope of these is getting longer and longer and the general consensus is that many of them gather dust on a shelf.
based on the article, it doesn't sound like the Councillor will be making too many friends in the planning department either

think of it as economic stimulus for planning consultants
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2010, 1:33 AM
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Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
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At the end of the day, this was a rather poorly executed political move from Leadman. The piece of land for the LRT curve is protected. The site is appropriate for intensification. Extra building height was granted. The proposal could stand to have less parking, for sure, and that is a good reason for a media rampage, except that the rampage we got is not about the parking but about some vague complaints about process... Whatever piece of reason Leadman might've had here, she blurred it.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2010, 4:23 AM
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If you ask me, no one comes off looking too good here on this one.

The City has been inexcusably slow to do anything about protecting this site for LRT. It's not news that Carling is slated to have LRT - it was in the previous 2003 TMP, nevermind the current one. Since that time we had the N-S LRT EA - shouldn't that EA have dealt with the issue of connectivity to the Carling LRT? Like, you know, plan - I mean really plan - when you plan other things that might affect things later that you've also planned. I just checked the N-S LRT EA and it has no provision for a Carling LRT connection, even though both were in the same 2003 TMP. So what were they going to do? Shut the N-S LRT down to build the connection to the Carling LRT, after having already shut the O-Train down to build the N-S LRT? And what of the effect on Carling Station of a connection? Perhaps they didn't expect there to be any more light rail after N-S LRT... what was it that David Jeanes once said about N-S LRT being designed to fail?

Even once the City realized the position it was in, it took the usual slow approach and hired an engineering consultant. For what purpose? Pick up the phone, call someone in that newfangled Light Rail Office and ask them what RoW and what radius is needed for LRT or what radius we typically design for in proximity to stations. If you can't find anyone co-operative or knowledgeable there, go call David Jeanes at Transport Action and I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you. Or ask Christine Leadman and Clive Doucet's consultant Morrison Renfrew who came up with a plan to use Carling for light rail. Once you know the radius, get out a freaking compass and draw out the radius to the width of the RoW and you've got what you need. The whole damned CPR was laid out by surveyors with less education than that of a typical high school graduate today - it doesn't need an engineer to figure out the property requirements, just a little applied geometry. This is an hour's work, most of which is probably going to be finding someone useful to talk to. There was no need for this to be delayed by months.

Then there's the developer. They knew full well about all of the O-Train, the N-S LRT and the future Carling LRT in the current TMP. Their consultants (Fotenn) mention all three in the planning rationale document. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that their property is prime territory for a rail curve connecting the two lines, especially given the fact that the property across Carling is owned by the federal government and that the city cannot assume it will be able to use it. So they should have anticipated this need and simply incorporated it into their proposal and used that as part of the rationale for getting extra height!. Unlike Sakto who offered to build an O-Train station at Gladstone, these guys couldn't see past the ends of their noses. Their attitude - that it was up to the city to purchase the property for light rail - also stinks as it basically implies they don't give a damn about even making their own development more of a success, never mind anything else. A lack of civic pride is the best way I can put it. Where are the Booths and the Skeads?

Leadman seems to have all over the place on this one, having both legitimate planning concerns on LRT and less reasonable ones on height in a location pretty bereft of anything to impact, but nevertheless she deserves credit for getting the LRT property issue onto the radar and the agenda. I have my doubts that the land for the rail curve would have been secured without her intervention.


All in all, another pretty sorry exercise all round (we basically have a repeat at the other end with the Phoenix property at City Centre/Bayview, except the curve there is a nice-to-have rather than a pretty-much-have-to-have as here). I raised the issue of civic pride earlier with respect to the developer, and I think that was missing all around. This is not just some random development; it's at a nexus of two light rail lines, anchors one end of Little Italy and overlooks Dows Lake. It's a highly prominent and important location. This is a city-building site and the realization and acknowledgement of that is what was lacking all around.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2010, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
based on the article, it doesn't sound like the Councillor will be making too many friends in the planning department either

think of it as economic stimulus for planning consultants
Based on my experiences it seems these days that staff and Councillors both hold their noses when referring to the other. The atmosphere between the two groups can be quite caustic at times...I don't know how some City Staff put up with Councillors interference at times......
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2010, 8:19 PM
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Committee recommendation approved by Council
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  #34  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2010, 1:00 PM
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update from Councillor Leadman
http://www.kitchissippiward.com/deve...-kitchissippi/

855 Carling Ave.
The property at the intersection of Carling Avenue and Champagne Avenue is of great importance to the city as it could have a big effect on the route for light rail transit. As such, what is allowed to be built there must be sensitive to this as well as the needs and wishes of the community.

This development was initially presented to the community as an office building that would most likely host government offices. However, as the market has changed, the developers are now investigating the option of residential buildings instead. If the developer pursues this option, it could result in an increase in building height.

The proposal was held up initially as an assessment needed to be done to see how the proposal would affect light rail. As a result, the application was delayed and the developer appealed to the Ontario Municipal Board.

Since then, the Planning and Environment Committee has approved the requested zoning change despite the councillor’s best efforts. However, there is still an OMB appeal to be considered. The developer is appealing requirements placed on the site. They are regarding restrictions due to the possible light rail connection on the property and the requirement that the building must have a commercial space at grade. This appeal is set to be heard on Sept. 14.

Councillor Leadman still has concerns about the amount of traffic this building will bring to the area as well as the abundance of parking spots being offered despite the buildings’ proximity to a transit line. This area is also under-serviced as far as amenities such as community centres, grocery stores and infrastructure capacity.
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  #35  
Old Posted Sep 7, 2010, 10:59 PM
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The developer is arguing at the Board that they should not be required to have retail on the ground floor.
proponents' retail market demand overview (Tate Economic Research)

Quote:
The approved zoning for the site requires approximately 15,000 square feet of non-residential gross leasable area to satisfy the requirements of By-law 2010-192. The report is an investigation of the market demand for retail space in a proposed multi-storey building. A summary of the findings state:

· The proposed layout of the site would provide limited vehicular access for retail uses;
· There is significant vehicular traffic on Carling Avenue near the site;
· There is limited pedestrian traffic near the site;
· Residential development of the site would generate limited marked demand for the retail uses contemplated;
· Development of the site for office uses would generate limited market demand for retail uses;
· The nearby area contains existing and proposed retail space that could serve occupants of the Campbell Steel site; and
· There are a number of site and design requirements for successful retail operations. The site has limited attributes that would result in successful retailing.

The report concludes:

“It is the professional opinion of TER that 855 Carling Avenue is not appropriate for the retail space required by the proposed changes to Zoning By-law 2008-250. Furthermore, it is our opinion that this space would not be marketable and is not required to meet the needs of future office employees or residents of the Campbell Steel and Iron Works Site.”
City staff disagree and are sticking to their original recommendations.

Quote:
Staff have reviewed the TER report and there is nothing in it that would change the recommendations contained in the report that was approved by Committee and Council. Staff does not agree with the findings and summary conclusions of the TER report and has concerns with its general methodology. Staff will commission a retail report in support of the Council approved zoning, in contemplation of the upcoming Ontario Municipal Board hearing. This report will be shared with the Appellant by August 30, 2010.
city-commissioned peer review of Tate report and study of the site (by Shore-Tanner & Associates)
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  #36  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2011, 10:06 PM
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OMB decision is finally out.. approved
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e-decisions...ep-21-2011.pdf

Dow's Lake Court objections on views dismissed.
If I'm reading this correctly, the City's requirement to have at-grade commercial use required was upheld, but the zoning was revised to include retail as permitted use (unintentionally left out)?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
City used consultant to peer review market study. Consultant had initially met with Arnon and put together a work plan to do study on their behalf (but was not retained by them). OMB not pleased. No weight assigned to his testimony (!!)
Area near the Carling LRT potential alignment is protected for rapid transit until May 31, 2012.

Last edited by waterloowarrior; Sep 27, 2011 at 12:05 AM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2011, 10:15 PM
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So, what happens now? Hopefully not more waiting.
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  #38  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2011, 3:23 PM
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Originally Posted by waterloowarrior View Post
OMB decision is finally out.. approved
http://www.omb.gov.on.ca/e-decisions...ep-21-2011.pdf

Dow's Lake Court objections on views dismissed.
If I'm reading this correctly, the City's requirement to have at-grade commercial use required was upheld, but the zoning was revised to include retail as permitted use (unintentionally left out)?? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
City used consultant to peer review market study. Consultant had initially met with Arnon and put together a work plan to do study on their behalf (but was not retained by them). OMB not pleased. No weight assigned to his testimony (!!)
Area near the Carling LRT potential alignment is protected for rapid transit until May 31, 2012.
I think you have it correct. When I read that OMB decision the expert witnesses hired by Arnon come out well.

The City Planner was harmed by probably inflexible regulations from the decision and general standards. However, the person who comes out really poorly is the expert witness who the City hired (after he put in a proposal to do the market research work on behalf of Arnon) to review the market research work done by Arnon's expert. I honestly can't believe that his previous desire to do the work for Arnon never came up to the City. It appears as though Arnron must have had that tidbit ready and when they brought it up at the hearing, that market research experts credibility was shot.

Thanks for the link on this OMB hearing.

Reading these OMB decisions makes me glad that I try and avoid getting involved in hearings as a hired gun....
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 28, 2012, 10:04 PM
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some expropriation proposed for this site
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...I-REP-0009.htm

The Rapid Transit Network identified on Schedule D of the City’s Official Plan sets out the City’s transit requirements to support its growth projections to the year 2031. A component of that network is the Western Light Rail Transit (LRT) Corridor. Zoning By-law No. 2010-192 adopted by City of Ottawa, includes a provision to restrict development to rapid transit network within a triangular portion of property forming part of a larger parcel located at 855 Carling Avenue. More specifically this is defined as a three dimensional area measured from below grade to a height of 15 metres above grade, identified as Parcel D on Schedule 129 to the By-law. In the decision rendered on appeal of Zoning By-law No. 2010-192, lead by the property owner, the Ontario Municipal Board ruled that “…if the City wants or needs this property as defined in the By-law, it should acquire it responsibly in accordance with either the Expropriations Act or the Planning Act”. In consideration that authority is not available by the Planning Act, application to expropriate is required.

The project approval reports associated with the respective projects and planning initiative identified above, did not include authorization for staff to initiate expropriation for the property rights required to facilitate the said construction, if necessary. In accordance with section 4 of the Expropriations Act, R.S.O., 1990, c. E-26, as amended (the “Act”), Council, the expropriating authority, must approve and direct staff to proceed with the application for approval to expropriate. Notwithstanding the foregoing and pursuant to the direction of the Infrastructure Services and Community Sustainability Portfolio, Realty Services will contact property owners to negotiate property settlements.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 2, 2012, 10:30 PM
Marcus CLS Marcus CLS is offline
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Committee of Adjustment

A sign posted on this site about 20 metres from a same sign across the street for the adjacent site (aleady posted here) indicates an application is submitted for two 26 story residential mixed use high rises, to be heard Aug. 15, 2012.

Wow two lucky finds in one day. I usually do not get first in on such news.
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