HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #21  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2014, 4:19 PM
orulz orulz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 549
It's actually not 100% privately financed. It's private insofar as there is limited direct investment by the US, Texas, or any local governments. So, little of your tax dollars are going into it. However, I believe that the government of Japan is providing at least some level of backing for the loans, actually placing taxpayers of Japan on the hook - but they are betting that this investment will pay off.

The segment between Houston and Dallas will be basically financed along these lines, but it's not like there will be exactly zero public participation.
Public agencies will expend man-hours during review and planning for the line. Probably some right-of-way already owned by the state such as highway medians will be given cheaply or free of charge. The railroad, as a public utility, will also have the power of eminent domain conferred to it by the state (existing freight railroads, power companies, and pipelines already have similar powers.)

And, finally, the extension from Dallas through the Arlington/DFW area and on to Fort Worth will be planned and built by the public sector.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #22  
Old Posted Apr 8, 2014, 4:33 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,935
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by orulz View Post
It's actually not 100% privately financed. It's private insofar as there is limited direct investment by the US, Texas, or any local governments. So, little of your tax dollars are going into it.

And, finally, the extension from Dallas through the Arlington/DFW area and on to Fort Worth will be planned and built by the public sector.
The extension to FW will be studied, I 'm not so sure it will ever get that far to be planned, designed, and built. Especially when the public sector will be subsidizing regional trains, whatever their speed, paralleling I-35. The TRE route already exists and Amtrak will be moving to it soon, a two seat ride with a transfer in Dallas isn't going to make or break the Texas Central train. Likewise, a two seat ride with a transfer in Fort Worth hasn't made or broken the Heartland Flyer train. Once they discover how much the Dallas o Fort Worth HSR link is going to cost, they'll find other ways to spend that money wiser.

In urban and suburban Texas, there isn't room anymore for train tracks in the median - especially in I-30 and I-45. If Texas Central chooses the freeway alignment, the tracks will more likely be placed between the main freeway lanes and the adjacent service road, aka DART's Green Line in Irving.. The service road would provide better access to a future train station for both pedestrians and vehicles than one in a median.

Last edited by electricron; Apr 8, 2014 at 4:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #23  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2014, 1:54 PM
urbanactivist's Avatar
urbanactivist urbanactivist is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,268
The Federal Government has cleared this project for EIS...

http://blog.chron.com/kuffsworld/201...gh-speed-rail/

Quote:
The Federal Railroad Administration published a document on its website Wednesday officially kicking off a highly anticipated environmental review of a proposed high speed rail line between Dallas and Houston.

The document, called a Notice Of Intent To Prepare An Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), marks the start of a process that will involve public input on Texas Central High-Speed Railway’s ambitious endeavor, which aims to connect travelers between Dallas and Houston in 90 minutes or less. The company has said it plans to operate the country’s fastest and only profitable high-speed rail line without public subsidies. Company officials have been preparing for the federal review for more than a year and have quietly worked on the logistics of it with federal officials in advance, according to people involved in the discussions.

The EIS, which could take more than a year, will examine possible routes for the rail line and how each scenario would impact the region’s environment, including agricultural land, streams, floodplains and wildlife, as well as various federal regulations including the National Historic Preservation Act. The review will also investigate “the potential impacts of stations, power facilities, and maintenance facilities to support HSR operations,” according to the federal notice.
__________________
Photo Threads for Memphis, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Galveston (before Ike), Kansas City,Houston, more Houston
Little Rock, and New Orleans, cont'd.

For politics, check out my blog Texas Leftist
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #24  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2014, 8:56 PM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
As seen on SSC ;)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
Yea, good idea Texas, but if I take this train from Dallas to Houston, and I get off in downtown Houston or wherever the terminus is...how the heck do I get to the Galleria/Tanglewood, Sugar Land, Galveston, Memorial Park, The Woodlands, even River Oaks/Montrose without having to transfer from one station to another and then take a multi-stop bus ride, as the light rail goes to NONE of those destinations. And there aren't honestly that many cabs in Houston just driving around looking for pickups, you have to call ahead unless you're at the convention center/large hotel/downtown office tower.

I'll just drive the 3.5 hours, thanks, and honestly, so would everyone else I know in Dallas or Houston.
Couldn't they just have a car rental kiosk at or near the station? Most major airports and bus or train stations already have at least one don't they?
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #25  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2014, 10:35 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 13,209
Yes, the last mile will be a problem in Texas. I think the HSR plan really aims to capture more passengers from air travel than from highways, since air travel has the same last mile problem.

If there is demand to be served at the new HSR station, then taxi drivers, shttke operators, and rental car companies will set up shop there just like they did at the airports, so there are a few easy solutions to the access problem.

That's not to say that local transit can't play a role, but the devil's in the details here... where are the terminal stations at each end of the line? If they are not in the downtowns of their respective cities, then connecting to local transit will be just as challenging as at the airports. Anyway, the terminal stations may very well be in the suburbs of each city; eg in Houston, building the separated corridor to bring HSR from Loop 610 to downtown may be too expensive, and certainly not worth the investment if you expect your passengers to drive from wealthy northern/western areas like The Woodlands and River Oaks anyway.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #26  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 1:37 AM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
As seen on SSC ;)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,349
Where are the stations for the current rail service?
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #27  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 4:52 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Where are the stations for the current rail service?
Texas Central is planning on running non FRA compliant Japanese built HSR trains. They will not be able to share tracks at the existing stations Amtrak visits anyways. They will not be using the current stations.

In Dallas, Amtrak visits Union Station located south of the historic famous triple underpass downtown. It has three platforms and 5 tracks for passenger trains. Two of the tracks are for light rail, two more of the tracks are for commuter rail, and one of the tracks is for Amtrak use. The commuter tracks can be shared with Amtrak. None of the tracks can be shared with non-FRA compliant HSR trains.
The downtown station in Houston lies north of Buffalo Bayou, on the outskirts if downtown Houston. It has one platform and one track for Amtrak to use. That sole track can't be used by non-FRA compliant trains, HSR or not.
Neither current downtown train station have a large enough footprint to include HSR.

Texas Central will be building brand new train stations for it's HSR trains along with entirely new HSR tracks in a corridor yet to be selected. The trains will not be sharing tracks at those stations. Where they will build the new stations hasn't been finalized. Their management have frequently stated having transit access in the future will be nice, but not a necessity. What they consider a major necessity is good highway access to their train stations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #28  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 5:54 PM
mfastx mfastx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 276
I too am interested in potential station designs in Houston in particular. I find it strange that not a single conceptual design or rendering has been released. Personally, I'd like for the station to be at the Burnett Plaza light rail station, that seems like a perfect spot. HSR tracks can be completely separate still, and Amtrak can re-route trains through the existing freight rail line that goes up there on a separate platform (if that's possible).

Easy light rail access to downtown and points further, plenty of land for parking/future development, and it seems like a no-brainer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #29  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 6:13 PM
Owlhorn Owlhorn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,617
In the process of the EIS, I think there will be pleasant surprises with how easy it is to access downtown Dallas from the south. Land is cheap and open, and the Trinity Corridor(which has been under study and levee strengthening for years) could provide a cheap and easy access to local trains and the confluence of North Central Texas highways. There is lots of available land in The Cedars area, right at the levee and this could even provide a direct link to DART. If they wanted to take that last mile to Union Station, the former Reunion Arena sight is sitting vacant and would also provide a large site to do build on. A couple of years ago, there was talk of the station being in south Dallas, but this is still a mistake when access to downtown Dallas remains easy. Going up the river corridor would be cheap, and the Army Corps has already given their recommendations and even construction to have the corridor freeway ready. This is basically being handed to them on a silver platter if they want this line to be successful.

As for the FW portion, the final study concluded that the I-30 median was the best path. This makes sense as there is a large median and the very straight geometry of most of that freeway.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #30  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 7:54 PM
mind field's Avatar
mind field mind field is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The mitten state
Posts: 1,211
Why not include Austin and San Antonio in a large loop?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #31  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 8:10 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,935
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owlhorn View Post
As for the FW portion, the final study concluded that the I-30 median was the best path. This makes sense as there is a large median and the very straight geometry of most of that freeway.
I agree that access into downtown Dallas will be easy, but not into Union Station.
I disagree with you about I -30. First of all, I don't believe a study has been completed, it just started earlier this year. Secondly, there isn't a median in I-30 anymore in Dallas County, it's entirely concrete from shoulder to shoulder today. What used to be a grassy median is now HOV/Managed lanes. If a HSR corridor is placed within the corridor it would be better off adjacent to the service roads on either side, IMHO. I look unfavorably at tearing up recently installed, $2 billion, concrete HOV lanes to install HSR tracks 5 years into a 50 years life of the concrete.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #32  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 11:38 PM
Capsule F Capsule F is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 16th and green
Posts: 1,810
If they build progressive in Texas, will they come?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #33  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2014, 11:44 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,935
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsule F View Post
If they build progressive in Texas, will they come?
Texas already has more and more people coming to the state, whether they build progressive, conservative, or liberally, it doesn't matter! People always flock to where the good paying jobs are.....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #34  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 3:02 AM
hygge hygge is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Texas already has more and more people coming to the state, whether they build progressive, conservative, or liberally, it doesn't matter! People always flock to where the good paying jobs are.....
Texas has the 25th highest average wage in the US as of 2011 and the 43rd worst Gini coefficient (an indicator of income inequality). So no, the jobs are not "good paying" at all. Regardless, hopefully this project gets built so it will show the tea crazies that rail can work in this country.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #35  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 4:09 AM
JoninATX JoninATX is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 2,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by hygge View Post
Texas has the 25th highest average wage in the US as of 2011 and the 43rd worst Gini coefficient (an indicator of income inequality). So no, the jobs are not "good paying" at all. Regardless, hopefully this project gets built so it will show the tea crazies that rail can work in this country.
I beg to differ, so what your implying is that all jobs coming and or created in Texas are low wages?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #36  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2014, 11:20 AM
BrownTown BrownTown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 583
Quote:
Originally Posted by hygge View Post
Texas has the 25th highest average wage in the US as of 2011 and the 43rd worst Gini coefficient (an indicator of income inequality). So no, the jobs are not "good paying" at all. Regardless, hopefully this project gets built so it will show the tea crazies that rail can work in this country.
That's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it. For one thing, a lot of the NEW jobs are high paying even if the existing ones aren't. More importantly though is the fact that you have to consider the cost of living in each state. For example, making a six figure salary in Texas will give you much more disposable income than making the same income in Silicon Valley so many tech companies decide to move because they can pay less (nobody is denying this part), but the employee is actually just as well off. Also, a lot of the new jobs are in the oil industry which is always one of the highest paying industries.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #37  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2014, 1:09 AM
llamaorama llamaorama is online now
Unicorn Wizard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,169
The area between Houston and Dallas is empty enough that this could be built on an entirely greenfield route, one that is also flat and would not cross any major water features either. Nor are there many environmentally vulnerable areas.

If it was acceptable to have Phase 1 end stations in say, Hutchins for Dallas and Cypress or Katy for Houston, this proposal might actually be rather sane. While central city stations would be desirable I think people will still mostly be driving to the stations and catching cabs from the other end, so a suburban location might not be bad to start with.

Last edited by llamaorama; Jul 10, 2014 at 1:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #38  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2014, 4:13 AM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
As seen on SSC ;)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 5,349
Maybe there could be lower cost shuttle buses that could run on the freeways and connect the suburban station to major nodes across the metro areas. Would definitely save money compared to the large cost of taking a cab all the way across the metro area. A person could pay the say, $5 to cross town, and then a short $10 - $15 cab ride to the final destination, compared to a $50+ cab ride across town.

And of course the major nodes may have decent transit connections as well.
__________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #39  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2014, 10:04 PM
Jdawgboy's Avatar
Jdawgboy Jdawgboy is offline
Representing the ATX!!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by mind field View Post
Why not include Austin and San Antonio in a large loop?
I agree, leaving out SA and Austin is a pretty bad move. If they are going to do it, they need to bring it to all of the big 4.
__________________
"GOOD TIMES!!!" Jerri Blank (Strangers With Candy)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #40  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2014, 1:00 AM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,935
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawgboy View Post
I agree, leaving out SA and Austin is a pretty bad move. If they are going to do it, they need to bring it to all of the big 4.
Maybe they will in the future. When looking at the Texas Triangle, the only leg without train service today is the Houston to Dallas leg. It makes sense that's the leg they would want to build first. Even if they were seriously considering building the entire triangle, they would build it in phases anyways.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:27 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.