Why is the U.S. wealthier than Europe? Give credit to its cities. (Report)

[10023]

Originally Posted by Omaharocks

The situation in places like Chicago, DC, Boston, Philadelphia, SF, and at least a couple others is pretty identical to Manhattan. Manhattan doesn't have a monopoly on creating a difficult and needless environment in which to own a vehicle.

Even if it wasn't difficult to own a car in Madison, why would you need to? If you live near the isthmus, everything is within walking or biking distance that you need (or that you would possibly want), and I know plenty of people that have stuck around in Madison for 10+ years without a car. Same goes for nearby Milwaukee and the Twin Cities - plenty of places to live easily without a car.

Well when I got an apartment with a decent kitchen, I drove out to Whole Foods on University at least once a week (the grocery store on Mifflin just did not cut it). There are certainly things at West Town Mall or out on the Beltline that you just can't get on the isthmus. There comes a point where you need access to more than home, class and the bars, restaurants and shops on and around State Street. Heck, you need a car just to pick up a keg of beer, or are you gonna carry it home on your bike?

We'd also drive to go golfing at U. Ridge, but you've got to drive to golf courses just about anywhere (even NYC). I also had a part time job that I had to drive to for a while. I'm generally not a fan of buses (even in New York), and Madison doesn't have roaming taxis or a rail transit system. In my view that makes having a car vastly preferable to not having one.

You're also just plain wrong if you think the situation in Chicago or DC is "identical" to Manhattan. That's just flat out false. I've lived in Chicago, I have a bunch of friends there and in DC, and all have cars. No you don't need to drive to work or anything, but I drove quite frequently (not every day, but at least every weekend) when I lived in Lincoln Park. If you live in River North or the Gold Coast it might be just like Manhattan, but that's it.

There is a difference between "possible" to live without a car, and somewhere that you don't use it even if you have one.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by 10023

There is a difference between "possible" to live without a car, and somewhere that you don't use it even if you have one.[/B]

Completely true. There are plenty of places in DC that people have cars and do not use them. The same can be said about Center City/University City in Philadelphia. I also know that Boston is the same way in most parts. I have spent a lot of time in all three of those cities and while it is not like Manhattan most people do not use a car everyday even if they have one. Just admit that your statement was wrong. There are more then 1-2 cities in the US where people can live without a car. You can live without a car in NYC, SF, DC, Chicago, Philly and Boston without any major hassles.

[bunt_q]

Do all those cities have car-sharing (or hassle-free weekend rentals)? Because being able to live without a car in the city is one thing. But not wanting to even own one...don't you guys like to drive out of the city every once in a while? That's pretty important to me.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by 10023

There is a difference between "possible" to live without a car, and somewhere that you don't use it even if you have one.

I live in DC now and it's far more than "possible". I moved here 2 months ago. I have a car. It hasn't moved for 2 months. My girlfriend has been here since December, and she lived here without a car until I moved down, and she hasn't driven it either. She just said to me the other day that she realized that she hasn't even driven a car since November when she was still in Pittsburgh.

Everything I could possibly want is within a few blocks of my place... and when I need or want to go to another part of the city, the metro is 2 blocks away. There is absolutely no reason for me to use it for everyday living, unless I want to get out of town for the weekend or something.

[10023]

There are simply things that I can't imagine doing without either a car or roaming taxis. Roaming taxis exist in Chicago, Boston, etc., but they're nowhere near as plentiful as they are in New York. And they're expensive (this is important). Parking is pretty easy in most of Chicago so why not have a car?

Do you people cook or buy lots of groceries? I get that there are plenty of cities where you don't need a car every day. You can commute by public transit, and the immediate neighborhood has day-to-day amenities. But eventually you're going to need to get a bunch of crap from the Container Store and walking to and from the subway is going to be a pain in the ass.

[novawolverine]

Originally Posted by 10023

There are simply things that I can't imagine doing without either a car or roaming taxis. Roaming taxis exist in Chicago, Boston, etc., but they're nowhere near as plentiful as they are in New York. And they're expensive (this is important). Parking is pretty easy in most of Chicago so why not have a car?

Do you people cook or buy lots of groceries? I get that there are plenty of cities where you don't need a car every day. You can commute by public transit, and the immediate neighborhood has day-to-day amenities. But eventually you're going to need to get a bunch of crap from the Container Store and walking to and from the subway is going to be a pain in the ass.

I completely agree with you. I live in DC now, own a car, don't need it, but enjoy having it and it's not a hassle like it would've when I lived in Manhattan.

Not to mention, that like NYC, there are areas of the city that are not very hospitable if you don't have a car in DC. And a significant percentage of the city's population live in these areas. Sure, it's not a hassle to not own a car in a few cities, but there's a huge drop-off after Manhattan if you're looking at it as if it's its own city.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Do all those cities have car-sharing (or hassle-free weekend rentals)?

Yes, they do.

[10023]

Last point I'll make on the subject...

As I think about this more - can you really say that you live "car free" if you're taking taxis regularly? What's the difference? In Manhattan cabs are usually available (except when you really need one or want to go to Brooklyn), parking is not, so you take cabs. In other places, cabs are less plentiful and parking is easy, so you drive your own car.

I don't take a cab somewhere every day, but certainly most days, and I take them multiple times per day on weekends. If that's living "car free", well...

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by 10023

There are simply things that I can't imagine doing without either a car or roaming taxis. Roaming taxis exist in Chicago, Boston, etc., but they're nowhere near as plentiful as they are in New York. And they're expensive (this is important). Parking is pretty easy in most of Chicago so why not have a car?

Do you people cook or buy lots of groceries? I get that there are plenty of cities where you don't need a car every day. You can commute by public transit, and the immediate neighborhood has day-to-day amenities. But eventually you're going to need to get a bunch of crap from the Container Store and walking to and from the subway is going to be a pain in the ass.

I used to cook all my meals in DC. There were 2 supermarkets within walking distance from my apartment. During the summer in DC there is multiple farmers markets that you can go to. I could get the same type of food by walking to the store as I could by having a car.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by 10023

Last point I'll make on the subject...

As I think about this more - can you really say that you live "car free" if you're taking taxis regularly? What's the difference? In Manhattan cabs are usually available (except when you really need one or want to go to Brooklyn), parking is not, so you take cabs. In other places, cabs are less plentiful and parking is easy, so you drive your own car.

I don't take a cab somewhere every day, but certainly most days, and I take them multiple times per day on weekends. If that's living "car free", well...

You do realize that Chicago has twice the number of cabs that NYC has. I never had a problem hailing a cab on the street in DC. In Philly I have always been able to get a cab except at 2 am when every bar in the city closes and everyone is trying to get in a cab. Also I have routinely driven into Manhattan and used parking garages. If you are willing to pay $35 to park then having a car is still easier then walking or taking public transit. Also we are not saying that these cities are as transit friendly as Manhattan but that you can still live comfortably without having a car.

[pico44]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

You do realize that Chicago has twice the number of cabs that NYC has.

This is of course untrue.

[LtBk]

Originally Posted by 10023

There are simply things that I can't imagine doing without either a car or roaming taxis. Roaming taxis exist in Chicago, Boston, etc., but they're nowhere near as plentiful as they are in New York. And they're expensive (this is important). Parking is pretty easy in most of Chicago so why not have a car?

Do you people cook or buy lots of groceries? I get that there are plenty of cities where you don't need a car every day. You can commute by public transit, and the immediate neighborhood has day-to-day amenities. But eventually you're going to need to get a bunch of crap from the Container Store and walking to and from the subway is going to be a pain in the ass.

You could ask the store to deliver the items you need to you place, or rent a car for the day.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by pico44

This is of course untrue.

You are correct. I flipped the numbers
Chicago has 6,951 and NYC has 13,237.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by 10023

There are simply things that I can't imagine doing without either a car or roaming taxis. Roaming taxis exist in Chicago, Boston, etc., but they're nowhere near as plentiful as they are in New York. And they're expensive (this is important). Parking is pretty easy in most of Chicago so why not have a car?

Do you people cook or buy lots of groceries? I get that there are plenty of cities where you don't need a car every day. You can commute by public transit, and the immediate neighborhood has day-to-day amenities. But eventually you're going to need to get a bunch of crap from the Container Store and walking to and from the subway is going to be a pain in the ass.

I agree. I'm lucky to have a Trader Joe's across basically across the street from me, so getting groceries there on a very frequent basis is easy. There are 3 larger supermarkets within close walking distance too, but hauling multiple bags of groceries is a pain in the ass -- and I still have enough pride left to refuse to push one of those little old lady carts.

I haven't used my car here yet, but I also haven't really shopped at something like the Container Store so far. There is one of those, a Best Buy, and others a few metro stops from me, but I'm not one for lugging a bunch of crap on the train -- I'll drive for that.