Is your city split more along north-south or east-west lines?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not all major US cities are bastions of catholicism.

here are the 17 largest US metro areas ranked by % catholic, from the Pew study:

Chicago - 34%
NYC - 33%
LA - 32%
san diego - 32%
boston - 29%
miami - 27%
philadelphia - 26%
san francisco - 25%
riverside - 22%

US Average - 21%
mineapolis - 21%
phoenix - 21%

washington - 19%
houston - 19%
detroit - 16%
seattle - 15%
dallas - 15%
atlanta - 11%


9 are above the national average, 2 are right on the national average, and 6 are below the national average.

Interesting to me that Los Angeles would be #3, percentage-wise.

I read that the LA Archdiocese is the largest in the whole US; obviously that must mean by sheer numbers.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Chicago - 34%
NYC - 33%
LA - 32%
san diego - 32%
boston - 29%
miami - 27%
philadelphia - 26%
san francisco - 25%
riverside - 22%

US Average - 21%
mineapolis - 21%
phoenix - 21%

washington - 19%
houston - 19%
detroit - 16%
seattle - 15%
dallas - 15%
atlanta - 11%

I'm kinda shocked that Metro Detroit is only 16% Catholic, more similar to Baptist/Methodist Southern metros than to Great Lakes metros.

Even many of the Middle Eastern immigrants are Catholic. Detroit has large Italian, Polish and German populations, like all the other Great Lakes cities.

The % black, by metro, isn't much higher than other nearby metros. Mainline Protestants aren't particularly common. Jewish population is moderately sized. Most ME immigrants to Detroit are Christian, not Muslim. So what gives?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Also, Boston has fewer Hispanics, esp. fewer Mexicans, who are almost entirely Catholic, unlike more Protestant or Fundamentalist-leaning Carribean Hispanics common in the Northeast.

Massachusetts was historically uber-Catholic besides the old WASP elite, with basically every major immigrant group (Irish, Italians, French Canadians, Portuguese, etc) coming from a Catholic nation.

I remember in college in Massachusetts I had a class on black politics which was about 50% African American. Once a discussion about Catholicism came up. Every single black student in turn said although it was unusual for a black family, they were raised Catholic. Finally the professor admitted his family was from Dominica, and he had also been raised Catholic.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not all major US cities are bastions of catholicism.

here are the 17 largest US metro areas ranked by % catholic, from the Pew study:

Chicago - 34%
NYC - 33%
LA - 32%
san diego - 32%
boston - 29%
miami - 27%
philadelphia - 26%
san francisco - 25%
riverside - 22%

US Average - 21%
mineapolis - 21%
phoenix - 21%

washington - 19%
houston - 19%
detroit - 16%
seattle - 15%
dallas - 15%
atlanta - 11%


9 are above the national average, 2 are right on the national average, and 6 are below the national average.

This is not what I was talking about. Not bastions on the whole from a % perspective, but in general, if there is going to be a sizable Catholic population in an area, it is most often going to be an urban population versus a rural one. Cities are bastions of Catholicism. That does not always translate to majority or most numerous religious group in city though. And that is to say nothing of the political power in cities that the Catholic Church has historically yielded and still continues to in many cities.

Historical truth remains true today. Throughout the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries the nation’s cities were the chosen destination for the scores of unskilled immigrants, large numbers of whom were Catholic (Irish, Polish, Italian, etc.).

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

Interesting to see the "big 3" coming in at the same percentage more or less, though obviously a rather different composition, with New York's being largely Italian, L.A. overwhelmingly Mexican and Chicago heavily Mexican and Polish.

L.A. is of course relatively recent in terms of such a high ranking. Half a century ago it was filled with Midwestern Protestants.

Even today, the white parts of Metro LA are very Protestant. Overwhelmingly white places like Newport Beach and Yorba Linda have an obvious mainstream Protestant presence.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I remember in college in Massachusetts I had a class on black politics which was about 50% African American. Once a discussion about Catholicism came up. Every single black student in turn said although it was unusual for a black family, they were raised Catholic. Finally the professor admitted his family was from Dominica, and he had also been raised Catholic.

I suspect that Boston, like NYC, has a more Catholic-leaning black population than usual because of the immigrant presence. You also get more mainstream Protestant blacks (for example, Anglican churches in NYC will have Jamaicans).

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I suspect that Boston, like NYC, has a more Catholic-leaning black population than usual because of the immigrant presence. You also get more mainstream Protestant blacks (for example, Anglican churches in NYC will have Jamaicans).

Boston proper is around 25% black. 3% or so is Haitian, and another 3% is from elsewhere in the West Indies. The city also has a large Puerto Rican and Dominican community - some of which may identify as black.

The South Shore of Massachusetts has an unusually large Cape Verdean community. Most Cape Verdeans are mixed race but would be read as being black within the U.S. context, although they do not generally identify as black.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I'm kinda shocked that Metro Detroit is only 16% Catholic, more similar to Baptist/Methodist Southern metros than to Great Lakes metros.

Even many of the Middle Eastern immigrants are Catholic. Detroit has large Italian, Polish and German populations, like all the other Great Lakes cities.

The % black, by metro, isn't much higher than other nearby metros. Mainline Protestants aren't particularly common. Jewish population is moderately sized. Most ME immigrants to Detroit are Christian, not Muslim. So what gives?

detroit does seem to be an unusual catholic outlier.

comparing it against chicago (detroit's closest parallel in the pew study) metro detroit has 2% points more unaffiliated, 4% points more evangelical, 3% points more mainline, 7% points more historically black, and 1% point more non-christian, which nearly makes up chicago's 18% points of more catholics (there are probably some rounding errors in there).

[Docere]

Detroit also had a lot of Canadian (mostly anglo/Protestant) immigration as well.

Still, I'm stunned to see it basically the same Catholic % as Seattle, where the whites are overwhelmingly of British, German and Scandinavian ancestry and does not have an especially big Hispanic population.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by Docere

Detroit also had a lot of Canadian (mostly anglo/Protestant) immigration as well.

Still, I'm stunned to see it basically the same Catholic % as Seattle, where the whites are overwhelmingly of British, German and Scandinavian ancestry and does not have an especially big Hispanic population.

Yeah, I'm wondering about what standard they're using for Metro Detroit. Are they just using Wayne County, which would account for the high % black Protestant?

Macomb County is just dominated by Poles, Italians, Germans and Catholic Middle Easterners. It's the same mix as working class white parts of Chicagoland. Oakland County is pretty Catholic too.

One possibility- Detroit has a fair number of working class white "redneck" areas that were traditionally settled by (Protestant) Appalachian whites. They came up to work the auto factories, and the towns are nicknamed with -tucky (Taylor is Taylortucky, Hazel Park is Hazeltucky, etc.)

But I'm still skeptical, as you see the same thing in other Midwest metros (in the case of Cincy and Indy, I bet you have even more of this demographic).

[Docere]

Metro Detroit is 12.8% English/American ancestry, Chicago is 7.3%. Pretty sizable difference.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not all major US cities are bastions of catholicism.

here are the 17 largest US metro areas ranked by % catholic, from the Pew study:

Chicago - 34%
NYC - 33%
LA - 32%
san diego - 32%
boston - 29%
miami - 27%
philadelphia - 26%
san francisco - 25%
riverside - 22%

US Average - 21%
mineapolis - 21%
phoenix - 21%

washington - 19%
houston - 19%
detroit - 16%
seattle - 15%
dallas - 15%
atlanta - 11%


9 are above the national average, 2 are right on the national average, and 6 are below the national average.

I'm surprised Houston is so low. About 40% of the population is Hispanic.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by JManc

I'm surprised Houston is so low. About 40% of the population is Hispanic.

Metro area. Protestant whites in all the far-flung burbs and high black (Baptist) population.

[Pedestrian]

Tucson, AZ is split 2 ways. It is split by I-10 which runs northwest to southeast--the side to the west of the freeway is a bit of a backwater but the new "modern streetcar" rail line helps connect it. It also has a definite north/south split, being more anglo and affluent the farther north you go until you run into the slopes of the Santa Catalina range and can't go any further. There is actually a separate city of South Tucson which is heavily Hispanic and low income, but the part of Tucson proper adjacent to it is probably the poorest part of town also. On the other hand, the Catalina foothills, to the city's north, which are not actually part of the city (the city wishing mightily to annex them but unable), are the home of its most affluent.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, I'm wondering about what standard they're using for Metro Detroit.

I can't find anything definitive on the pew website, but the fact that they split LA and Riverside into two separate metros leads me to believe that they're using the MSA standard.

[Docere]

San Francisco had a large Irish Catholic and Italian population historically, so I guess that explains the pretty high Catholic population (in addition to Hispanics and Filipinos). Yet you don't have "white ethnic" enclaves like you do in the Northeast and some of the Great Lakes cities.

[Docere]

On the east-west divide in Cleveland:

https://www.thrillist.com/lifestyle/...t-side-history

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Docere

On the east-west divide in Cleveland:

https://www.thrillist.com/lifestyle/...t-side-history

oh shit, that's fascinating. i didn't really know that.

[Centropolis]

sounds kind of like the greater working class southside vs the greater "west end" in st. louis, except thats a more ambivalent division that neither "side" gives a fuck about the other. in fact the westside has "invaded" or rescued, however you want to frame it, urban neighborhoods of the southside that were left to rot.

[ue]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

...You do realize that the first roads weren't built across the Hudson until the 20s and 30s, yes?

The Huangpu is not a trivial engineering challenge.

You do realize that we're talking about the '90s, not the '20s, yes?