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  #6981  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 6:00 PM
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Demolishing a historic streetwall to build a tower surrounded by a giant plaza. I like the architecture, but care more about the sub-par urban experience that this proposal will bring to the area. The pedestrian design better change concerning this proposal.
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  #6982  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 6:31 PM
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At first glance I thought that was the Mondrian hotel in the background and this was proposed for somewhere on Sunset. I have a hard time seeing this getting approved and built in Chinatown with that height unfortunately.
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  #6983  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 7:33 PM
DJM19 DJM19 is offline
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Have to agree. I actually really like the tower itself, but not here. Something is more important than cool designs, and that is urban fabric. This disrupts that and it will never be brought back when all those sites are consolidated.

Good design is not just good on AutoCAD. It has to be good in context.
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  #6984  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 8:14 PM
112597jorge 112597jorge is offline
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are you guys serious? what urban fabric are you guys arguing about? its literally replacing a surface parking lot and one story dilapidated retail building.
this project is great.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0591...7i13312!8i6656
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  #6985  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 112597jorge View Post
are you guys serious? what urban fabric are you guys arguing about? its literally replacing a surface parking lot and one story dilapidated retail building.
this project is great.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0591...7i13312!8i6656
It's replacing two buildings actually, both which could have been restored and incorporated in to the project. If you walk around Chinatown, the best part of the neighborhood is the urban grid and fine-grain urbanism of the historic buildings. This completely goes against that, disrupting the urban character rather than adding on to it. Yes, a parking lot of going away, but what is being built upon it is nearly as anti-urban from a pedestrian perspective. I'm not against this being built per se, I just want it to be built with the pedestrian atmosphere in mind. Just build according to the street wall! Not that hard tbh.
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  #6986  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 10:13 PM
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That plaza looks beautiful, why would bringing in nature and a plaza be a negative? Unless it's a private plaza, it'll beautify the street compared to what is there (I had to look at the google street view link to know what is there, and what is there is not pretty).
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  #6987  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2018, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 112597jorge View Post
are you guys serious? what urban fabric are you guys arguing about? its literally replacing a surface parking lot and one story dilapidated retail building.
this project is great.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0591...7i13312!8i6656

Its replacing mostly empty lots, but those could have been built with developments that better fit the scale of the neighboring ones. This lot, once built as a behemoth with little street interaction, will never play nice with its neighbors and lock in yet another huge lot in an area that use to allow for many small ones
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  #6988  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by patriotizzy View Post
That plaza looks beautiful, why would bringing in nature and a plaza be a negative? Unless it's a private plaza, it'll beautify the street compared to what is there (I had to look at the google street view link to know what is there, and what is there is not pretty).
Think of all the plaza's around Downtown - no, around all of Los Angeles. Now think of how much use they get.

There ya go.
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  #6989  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 1:07 AM
112597jorge 112597jorge is offline
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
Think of all the plaza's around Downtown - no, around all of Los Angeles. Now think of how much use they get.

There ya go.
I would prefer continuing the street wall but the plaza isn’t bad at all, who knows it might be used used more than current ones in LA. But also any project proposed on that spread of land wouldn’t incorporate the one story and 2 story building. They’d be razed to the ground in order to maximize space of their construction (probably a 7 story wood frame covering entire area). This new design to LA high rise outweighs the mediocre pedestrian integration. Now if more projects were being designed without pedestrians in mind in Chinatown and Downtown then i would have an issue with it.
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  #6990  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 1:52 AM
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100 S GRAND AVE 90012

Application / Permit
17019-10000-04924
Plan Check / Job No.
B17LA20947
Group
Building
Type
Bldg-Demolition
Sub-Type
Commercial
Primary Use
(8) Parking Building
Work Description
DEMO PARKING STRUCTURE, CLEAR LOT AND FENCE
Permit Issued
Issued on 4/19/2018
Issuing Office
Metro
Current Status
Issued on 4/19/2018





la.curbed.com


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  #6991  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 4:18 AM
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Originally Posted by 112597jorge View Post
I would prefer continuing the street wall but the plaza isn’t bad at all, who knows it might be used used more than current ones in LA.
There are dozens of dozens of anti-pedestrian underused plazas in Los Angeles, but this is gonna be the one that's different!

Next plaza:

There are dozens of dozens of anti-pedestrian underused plazas in Los Angeles, but this is gonna be the one that's different!
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  #6992  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 12:02 PM
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My eyes lit up the same way yours did when I saw that statement. What are you guys smoking. It is a dingy three story building surrounded by fenced off parking lots. What is this "Historic streetwall"?? It literally doesn't exist. It's not like we are talking about tearing down a 10 story building on Main or Spring Street.

And really?? The building is too tall for the area and "Disrupts the urban fabric" of the area?? That would be great, because the urban fabric of that area is nothing special in any way shape or form. A bunch of low level buildings and parking lots. This would help create a new urban fabric, one that is allow Oliveria street, historic DTLA, and union station to be used a ton more. Right now this entire area is dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 112597jorge View Post
are you guys serious? what urban fabric are you guys arguing about? its literally replacing a surface parking lot and one story dilapidated retail building.
this project is great.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0591...7i13312!8i6656
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  #6993  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 3:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Resident View Post
My eyes lit up the same way yours did when I saw that statement. What are you guys smoking. It is a dingy three story building surrounded by fenced off parking lots. What is this "Historic streetwall"?? It literally doesn't exist. It's not like we are talking about tearing down a 10 story building on Main or Spring Street.

And really?? The building is too tall for the area and "Disrupts the urban fabric" of the area?? That would be great, because the urban fabric of that area is nothing special in any way shape or form. A bunch of low level buildings and parking lots. This would help create a new urban fabric, one that is allow Oliveria street, historic DTLA, and union station to be used a ton more. Right now this entire area is dead.
Agreed!
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  #6994  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 5:01 PM
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That great news about Grand Ave. Will we finally see this one out?? How long is it between demolition permits and actual demo usually?
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  #6995  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2018, 11:05 PM
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Its interesting seeing some flip flop on their previous stances on plazas and urban design.

But that being said, I see both sides of the aisle on this one.

On one hand lets be honest, Its Chinatown, it lost its footing a long time ago and all of the new developments there aren't doing much to fix that, other than slapping random gimicky coats of paints on these developments and calling it chinese inspired. This with its plaza will just add to the current trend. But for the area, its not bad honestly, and the plaza might, just maybe, be used more than the thousands of others across LA that aren't being used even during business hours.

On the other hand, as stated above, its plaza and design is making it an island within itself like every tower on bunker hill built in the 80s. Plazas like this, especially in LA, that are directly attached to developments for some reason aren't inviting to the public. Example ? Bunker Hill, Century City, the Wilshire Corridor, the west side, Long Beach, the list goes on. No matter how nice you make them, people most likely wont use them and baton happy security guards don't make the situation any better.

Should we applaud plazas that are attached directly to developments like this ? LA's history says no. This development where its at, I'll give it a slight (barely) pass.
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  #6996  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 12:13 AM
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Slightly OT but man already that six story or so building in Chinatown right at the interstate is making a big difference. Really starts to mitigate the desolate nature of those couple blocks can't wait til it is open and filled with people and hopefully businesses!
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  #6997  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2018, 10:13 PM
LDVArch LDVArch is offline
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Originally Posted by Illithid Dude View Post
It's replacing two buildings actually, both which could have been restored and incorporated in to the project. If you walk around Chinatown, the best part of the neighborhood is the urban grid and fine-grain urbanism of the historic buildings. This completely goes against that, disrupting the urban character rather than adding on to it. Yes, a parking lot of going away, but what is being built upon it is nearly as anti-urban from a pedestrian perspective. I'm not against this being built per se, I just want it to be built with the pedestrian atmosphere in mind. Just build according to the street wall! Not that hard tbh.
It would be useless to have a street wall here for two reasons:

(1) the street itself is inhospitable to pedestrian crossing at all points. It is not a two-lane street. The street is not rectilinear. It has a median in some places.

(2) There is a parking lot across the street.

Street walls are supposed to form public rooms. You can't have a public room with only one wall and when the street itself is an impediment to movement within the room.
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  #6998  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2018, 1:52 AM
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Originally Posted by LDVArch View Post
It would be useless to have a street wall here for two reasons:

(1) the street itself is inhospitable to pedestrian crossing at all points. It is not a two-lane street. The street is not rectilinear. It has a median in some places.

(2) There is a parking lot across the street.

Street walls are supposed to form public rooms. You can't have a public room with only one wall and when the street itself is an impediment to movement within the room.
Seems to be a little bit of confusion here. The tower is not planned at the corner of Spring/Cesar Chavez, but further east toward Ord Street.

The approximate location is the right side of this Google Street view shot.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/64...4d-118.2386103

Also worth mentioning that there has been talk of an RFP for that big parking lot on the east side of Cesar Chavez, plus two mid-rise buildings now under construction on the former parking lots to the north.
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  #6999  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 3:46 AM
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  #7000  
Old Posted Apr 24, 2018, 3:56 AM
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I like the relatively fine grain urbanism of this one.
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