HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #161  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2012, 5:52 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is offline
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockMont View Post
2015, is the projected date.
Of construction or completion?
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #162  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2012, 10:25 PM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,833
Completion is 2015. It has to be fully operational by early 2016, in time for the opening of the East Corridor/Airport EMU line.
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #163  
Old Posted Aug 27, 2012, 10:45 PM
wong21fr's Avatar
wong21fr wong21fr is offline
Reluctant Hobbesian
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 13,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
Completion is 2015. It has to be fully operational by early 2016, in time for the opening of the East Corridor/Airport EMU line.
I think we're talking about the potential expansion to Concourse C. At least that's what I am referring to when I ask if 2015 is for the start of construction or for completion.
__________________
"You don't strike, you just go to work everyday and do your job real half-ass. That's the American way!" -Homer Simpson

All of us who are concerned for peace and triumph of reason and justice must be keenly aware how small an influence reason and honest good will exert upon events in the political field. ~Albert Einstein

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #164  
Old Posted Aug 28, 2012, 4:39 PM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,833
The expansion of Concourse C is part of a broader, 10-year expansion plan. The South Terminal Expansion, Hotel & Transit hub are phase 1 of this 10-year expansion plan. Subsequent phases 2 & 3 will see the expansion of Concourse A, B & C, a 7th runway, as well as extension of the people mover tram and installation of a new, modern, next generation, automated baggage system.

Phase 1, under construction now, is well over a billion dollars. Phase 2 & 3 will likely add up to an additional $2.5 billion more in expenditures between 2015-2025. So all total, we're looking at nearly $4 billion in expansion between 2012-2025. This will increase capacity to ~75 million passengers per year and improve airport access, efficiency and convenience.
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #165  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2012, 7:40 PM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,833
New detailed video rendering tour

Here's the link for the new, detailed, video tour of the DIA South Terminal Expansion:
http://bcove.me/enum39ve

Quote:
DIA relocates tent roof tension cords, ready to build south terminal
POSTED: 08/29/2012 12:45:52 PM MDT
UPDATED: 08/29/2012 12:54:05 PM MDTBy Kristen Leigh Painter
The Denver Post


Denver Mayor Michael B. Hancock — wearing his favorite sneakers and gripping a giant mallet — took a swing at a giant stake that previously helped to hold 817,000 pounds of tension from Denver International Airport's tent roof, officially clearing the way for construction on the South Terminal Redevelopment Program.

The ceremonial release marks the last major obstacle the project's engineering team had to overcome. Two weight-bearing tension cables were located exactly where the new project will be built, so engineers created temporary tent towers to hold the airport's fiberglass roof in place during construction.
"Now that the tension is relieved, everyone can start clearing the area," said Stu Williams, DIA program manager for the South Terminal Redevelopment Program.

All of the tent cables, previously buried 60 feet under the ground's surface, bore the vertical force caused by the tension and compression system that is used to support the airport's iconic white roof...

...The construction timeline begins immediately, starting with excavation in October, and the foundational work beginning in early November. The structural work will be visible by early 2013, and by early Jan. 2014 the station will be complete.
The entire project is expected to be complete by 2015.


Read more: DIA relocates tent roof tension cords, ready to build south terminal - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...#ixzz24xveTx2z
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #166  
Old Posted Aug 29, 2012, 7:53 PM
PLANSIT's Avatar
PLANSIT PLANSIT is offline
ColoRADo
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Denver
Posts: 2,319
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #167  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2012, 10:33 AM
Octavian Octavian is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLANSIT View Post
Thanks for posting this! Best look yet at the terminal!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #168  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2012, 10:00 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Octavian View Post
Thanks for posting this! Best look yet at the terminal!
It appears that the actual terminal space devoted to airline/airport operations is not being increased and that this is mostly a land-side addition of hotel and rail station, correct?

If so, is there a plan for a future terminal addition, i.e, more baggage and ticketing space?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #169  
Old Posted Aug 30, 2012, 11:41 PM
BrennanW's Avatar
BrennanW BrennanW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manhattan, Kansas USA.
Posts: 198
I know the terminal allows space for future "HSR" expansion, but I really don't like how the canopy looks with just the two East Corridor tracks under it. There are no current feasible, funded plans to extend another rail line to DIA, though a front range line to Colorado Springs would be neat.

Otherwise, bravo to the planners who did a Calatrava-esque design for less and under a stressed timeline. It will be fun to watch the place get built over the next few years.
__________________
Proud Kansan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #170  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2012, 1:23 AM
BG918's Avatar
BG918 BG918 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
It appears that the actual terminal space devoted to airline/airport operations is not being increased and that this is mostly a land-side addition of hotel and rail station, correct?

If so, is there a plan for a future terminal addition, i.e, more baggage and ticketing space?
There will be baggage/ticketing and security in the podium of the transit center below the hotel.

There is a long range plan for a new international terminal, either a terminal "D" or a new building southeast of the main terminal connected by the AGTS.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #171  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2012, 3:27 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
There will be baggage/ticketing and security in the podium of the transit center below the hotel.

There is a long range plan for a new international terminal, either a terminal "D" or a new building southeast of the main terminal connected by the AGTS.
I believe they will construction the C concourse extension. They will get 10 new gates. I think WN will operated in entire concourse C.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #172  
Old Posted Aug 31, 2012, 9:58 PM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,833
The South Terminal Extension, is an extension of the existing terminal, to allow entry and processing of passengers from the train station, without using existing security lines and baggage check in facilities. So essentially, is should decrease wait times and increase maximum capacity of the airport, via increased security processing and baggage check ins. The hotel also serves to improve the airport, by providing on-site hotel. The South Terminal Extension, will also incorporate quite a bit of additional retail.
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #173  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 3:50 PM
Wizened Variations's Avatar
Wizened Variations Wizened Variations is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrennanW View Post
I know the terminal allows space for future "HSR" expansion, but I really don't like how the canopy looks with just the two East Corridor tracks under it. There are no current feasible, funded plans to extend another rail line to DIA, though a front range line to Colorado Springs would be neat.

Otherwise, bravo to the planners who did a Calatrava-esque design for less and under a stressed timeline. It will be fun to watch the place get built over the next few years.


Most cities in the US, IMO, are slowly exiting a period where the "business as usuall" standards that evolved in the 1980s are becoming obsolete for the 2010s.

The 1980s and 1990s were an age where large "public" consortiums could hook up with private developers, and, build transportation related projects that did not need to truly serve public need.

A) Projects to develop downtowns via transportation "frills." While projects were advertised as serving metro areas, most projects designed targeted making new mini-downtowns on former railroad right of way. Think of them as downtown city "Chamber of Commerce" ploys to develop "close in" condos, office space, and, "boutique" retail (such as the DIA rail line).*

The primary driver is increased real estate taxes for the city where transportation project centers long term, and, medium term for those property developers whose property will increase in value through the subsidized construction of server, water, power, street, and, curb construction (this important from the "where do we save money argument" standpoint)**

While the metro-wide sales pitch is that all metro citizens will share in the project, most of the return on investment will be made with a couple of kilometers of new rail terminals and downtown rail stop stations***


B) These projects are immensely expensive. In many respects, these projects are "welfare" projects for construction companies and for inhouse engineering/design staffs. With multiple decade buildouts, associated public and private staffs can have the time for an entire working career. This tendency rewards over engineering and punishes "best cost" efforts.****

This is best visible in what is built. Catenaries, and station amenities are overbuilt, while interfaces between rail lines are simplified (to the future detriment of passenger usage). A classic example, in the RTD buildout, is the area around the Auraria West Station, with it's glorious catenary, lighting, and, wide platforms while a 3rd track leading south onto the West line was not built. Even worse, the junction approach clearences under Colfax as the West line joins north are only set up for 2 tracks. Had the approach elevation been built for 3 tracks, and, the current 2 tracks had been laid, future expansion would have been simple, and, fairly cheap (about $2,000,000 in todays money, I would estimate). Instead, rebuilding the approach (with the necessary slow orders, etc) might cost 4 or 5 times that much. This type of "cost compromise" was done, in part, IMO to keep station design staffs rationalized at the expense of rail line design efficientcy. While such a small scale criticism might seem insignficant in terms of total project costs, this type of "compromise" costs passenger movement efficientcies- average speed in particular, and, is common.

I bring this up because this is an example any C or E train rider can go look at and see. All we see of the DIA project are beautiful renderings that look very handsome with their deep blues...


This type of build out will change when future demands skyrocket. I have no doubts that metro wide multiple rider transportation-public and private- will increase radically and the era of public transportation systems as downtown developmental entities will end.*****

Only then we can build systems that carry masses of people efficiently- when people are screaming for systems that work.

*The DIA station needs to be a working, efficient station more than a 2 tracked access to a "gee, that's neat looking" visual arcade. The DIA authority has the surrounding property, and, the RTD consortium does not make money here through property development, but down track is a different story.

**Save money in areas with the least political impact. Powers at be and their money are the key.

***The railway to DIA is built to get people to downtown. This is the crown jewel of Lodo's "rejuvenation" with the idealized dream of thousands of business travelers staying downtown...(HSR should interface at DIA, obviously, as great right of way exists north and south. The station should have not been a stub tracked station, Amtrak should have been able to stop there- ((there was a proposal for a north-south connector between the BNSF and UP lines)) etc.)

****OF COURSE BOULDER IS ANGRY WITH RTD!!! They are not stupid!

*****And of course, the "we did not know this would happen.." innocence argument will be the "norm." The powers at be when decisions are proven to not serve the public good (i.e., the public comes after them with torches and pitch forks.) will always include the public by saying "we." Most of time, the powers at be are well aware of repercussions- that's why they hire lawyers and pay off politicians.
__________________
Good read on relationship between increasing number of freeway lanes and traffic

http://www.vtpi.org/gentraf.pdf

Last edited by Wizened Variations; Sep 1, 2012 at 4:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #174  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 8:10 PM
SnyderBock's Avatar
SnyderBock SnyderBock is offline
Robotic Construction
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,833
The DIA South Terminal Rail Station, is a 4 track station. For now, only two platforms will be needed. The others will be built later, when they are needed.
__________________
Automation Is Still the Future

Last edited by SnyderBock; Sep 4, 2012 at 9:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #175  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2012, 1:35 AM
BG918's Avatar
BG918 BG918 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,551
As mentioned, after the hotel and transit center are finished they will concentrate expanding/updating the three concourses. Currently A is mostly used by Frontier, B by United and C by Southwest. If DIA can increase its international flights then there will eventually be a need for a dedicated terminal.

DIA is a very busy domestic hub but still does not have that many international flights, but that may be changing. Just this year Icelandair started non-stop flights to Reykjavik, Volaris will begin flying non-stop to Mexico City, and United will start non-stops to Tokyo in March 2013. The airport and city want to add more flights to Asian cities like Seoul, Beijing and Hong Kong, and Paris and Amsterdam in Europe (there are already non-stops to London via British Airways, Frankfurt via Lufthansa and the aforementioned Reykjavik via Icelandair in Europe).

There are also currently no non-stops to South America, and only a couple to Central America (San Jose and Liberia, Costa Rica) with the rest to Mexico (San Jose del Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, Mexico City). DIA does have decent connections to Canada with non-stops to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #176  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2013, 7:57 PM
N830MH N830MH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,983
DEN has begun construction 5 more new gates at entire concourse C

http://business.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_130916n.pdf

DEN has already begun construction five more new gates for Southwest Airlines. Right now there are few WN gates at entire concourse A. Later on, they will relocate to concourse C. It will start construction 5 new gates and it will be completed sometime in November 2014.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #177  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2013, 4:28 PM
BrennanW's Avatar
BrennanW BrennanW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manhattan, Kansas USA.
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
As mentioned, after the hotel and transit center are finished they will concentrate expanding/updating the three concourses. Currently A is mostly used by Frontier, B by United and C by Southwest. If DIA can increase its international flights then there will eventually be a need for a dedicated terminal.

There are also currently no non-stops to South America, and only a couple to Central America (San Jose and Liberia, Costa Rica) with the rest to Mexico (San Jose del Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, Cancun, Cozumel, Mexico City). DIA does have decent connections to Canada with non-stops to Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto and Montreal.
There is plenty of space to expand international gates at A. Frontier is shrinking at DEN and the airport is already making plans to cover any economic impact on operations should they cease flying or severely downsize their operation. They should be returning leases on a few gates in A-East soon. If there is really a need for more dedicated international gates in the next few years, this shouldn't' be an issue.

Furthermore, UA won't go to South America from Denver. UA struggles to connect DEN internationally as it's in an awful location for international service, and going any direction means overflying another one of their hubs. IAH is a perfect hub for UA to South America, and they struggle to compete with AA on lots of Deep South America routes (EZE, SCL, GRU.) DEN is well connected to IAH, and also to DFW and MIA where connections are easy to all points South.

Volaris is applying for more routes to/from Mexico. This is a good move, but it's not the kind of traffic UA is really looking for to develop it's hub.

I could see UA trying ICN from DEN, but PEK/PVG slots will go to other hubs first (IAH, probably).

Europe, well, who knows. Usually Europe traffic is lower-yielding. It's a longer flight from DEN, and you have to overfly THREE other UA hubs at EWR, IAD, and ORD. Maybe a LH flight to MUC would be in the cards, but other than that, international growth is really limited to Canada and Mexico for what I can see.

-

All I want is a nonstop DEN-MHK!!
__________________
Proud Kansan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #178  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2013, 5:07 PM
202_Cyclist's Avatar
202_Cyclist 202_Cyclist is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,945
BrennanW:
Quote:
There is plenty of space to expand international gates at A.
There is an article in this week's issue of Aviation Week about the interesting routes and strategy that Icelandair has. It mentioned that the airline is able to serve both Denver and Seattle with B757s from Iceland because of its position so far west compared to other European hubs.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #179  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2013, 5:46 PM
BrennanW's Avatar
BrennanW BrennanW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Manhattan, Kansas USA.
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist View Post
BrennanW:


There is an article in this week's issue of Aviation Week about the interesting routes and strategy that Icelandair has. It mentioned that the airline is able to serve both Denver and Seattle with B757s from Iceland because of its position so far west compared to other European hubs.
Indeed, Icelandair has been very popular at DEN. They have an interesting product and business model at very attractive prices. Recently, they've been taking delivery of ex-AA 757s which can be acquired at very attractive lease rates due to their age. Icelandair also has relatively low aircraft utilization, which saves on maintenance and helps a lot with reliability. I think they have aircraft on the ground at DEN and MSP for something like 22 hours!

They're a very attractive way for backpackers and cost-sensitive tourists to access Europe, and to bring backpackers to the USA. I think DEN has attracted a lot of European tourists in by way of Iceland. Plus, the airline has the added benefit of adding a transit in Iceland for no additional airfare- that's pretty cool!
__________________
Proud Kansan
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #180  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2013, 1:50 AM
BG918's Avatar
BG918 BG918 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by N830MH View Post
http://business.flydenver.com/pr/DIAPR_130916n.pdf

DEN has already begun construction five more new gates for Southwest Airlines. Right now there are few WN gates at entire concourse A. Later on, they will relocate to concourse C. It will start construction 5 new gates and it will be completed sometime in November 2014.
Southwest, through Airtran currently, has a couple international flights from DEN to Mexico (San Jose del Cabo & Cancun) that require FIS which is only available in Concourse A. So I imagine they will keep at least one gate, maybe two for those type of flights. I could see US Airways leaving B if the AA merger goes through and consolidating in A (with AA) maybe with a couple new gates if they keep existing flights to Charlotte, Philadelphia and Phoenix. Delta will probably stay put in C but could eventually move to A if Frontier frees up space.

Regarding international flights, the thought is that COPA non-stop to Panama City could be a good fit. Star Alliance partner to help with UA feed, and could be an alternative to IAH for those going to South America.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:19 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.