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  #61  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 1:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 1ajs View Post
ugh what a thing to get woken up over at 8am on a saturday a friging drunken fight screeming broom sticks bighting cusing swearing for half a friggin hour its stoped but i think its about to start up again i realy hate that manitoba houseing dump across the lane...........
Yeah, I heard that, too. What a gong show that place continues to be.

But hey, it was built do "deal with" the "social problems" of poverty. How is it going so far?
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  #62  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 4:36 PM
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While I agree the media enjoys blowing stories out of proportion.... the fact is Winnipeg does have a real problem .. which needs some serious attention.
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  #63  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 4:39 PM
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Source: Winnipeg Free Press / National Post
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  #64  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 4:40 PM
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Anyone want to move downtown??? ... no?? .... but why?
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  #65  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 4:58 PM
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I have seen photos from the 50s, 60s, 70s...of police officers walking the beat downtown. They need to get out of their cars and walk.
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  #66  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 5:03 PM
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Anyone want to move downtown??? ... no?? .... but why?
Anyone care to attach the common thread to most of that violent crime? Anyone care to address the elephant in the room?

hexrae and rrskylar have alluded to it. What can we do immediately to address the issues and stop the violence?

Step up police presence for one?

How about effect sentencing?

What else?
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  #67  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 5:37 PM
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I have long believed the Canadian criminal justice system is a complete invitation to set up shop ... and all the police in the world can't solve this issue if the courts release the criminals right away.

The rights of peaceful society must be put ahead of the rights of those who willingly put people's life into danger. Its not some joke, which too many young innercity youth treat it as. Gang life must be detered with strict laws. I often wondered if things would change if judges were to live in high crime areas as a means to provide a much clearer understanding of the problems. They would surely fear for there family's safety.... as those who currently live there do.

The current system of letting crimals off without consequence is really the base of the problem. Once we have a criminal system that works .. we can discuss adding more police, until then society will continue to pay the price for bleeding hearts.
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Last edited by newflyer; Sep 26, 2009 at 6:25 PM.
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  #68  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Winnipegger@Heart View Post
I have seen photos from the 50s, 60s, 70s...of police officers walking the beat downtown. They need to get out of their cars and walk.
they do walk the beat
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  #69  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 6:28 PM
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Anyone care to attach the common thread to most of that violent crime? Anyone care to address the elephant in the room?

hexrae and rrskylar have alluded to it. What can we do immediately to address the issues and stop the violence?

Step up police presence for one?

How about effect sentencing?

What else?
hex and rrskylar bring up good points though

police have been steping up pressure doing what they can but the feds don't help with the crapy toothless laws that let people walk
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  #70  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 6:30 PM
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Originally Posted by newflyer View Post
I have long believed the Canadian criminal justice system is a complete invitation to set up shop ... and all the police in the world can't solve this issue if the courts release the criminals right away.

The rights of peaceful society must be put ahead of the rights of those who willingly put people's life into danger. Its not some joke, which too many young innercity youth treat it as. Gang life must be detered with strict laws. I often wondered if things would change if judges were to live in high crime areas as a means to provide a much clearer understanding of the problems. They would surely fear for there family's safety.... as those who currently live there do.

The current system of letting crimals off without consequence is really the base of the problem. Once we have a criminal system that works .. we can discuss adding more police, until then society will continue to pay the price for bleeding hearts.

but nf that still would not work as the laws tie their hands and so they still would walk and if they did do this the lawers would have a feild day
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  #71  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rgalston View Post
Yeah, I heard that, too. What a gong show that place continues to be.

But hey, it was built do "deal with" the "social problems" of poverty. How is it going so far?
well that used to happen every night when the brick house was still a dump with fights breaking out beteen it and 89 and the manitoba housing dump
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  #72  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 9:15 PM
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but nf that still would not work as the laws tie their hands and so they still would walk and if they did do this the lawers would have a feild day
I believe that judges have discression... and have the ability to go lightly on criminals.

It is my opinion that judgments need to be leaned towards the upper end of the available range for a particular crime.

For instance if someone willfully put another person's life in direct danger I don't think they should get probation or a couple months suspended sentence. No, if you do the crime .. it should be widely understood that the penalty is severe. This is known as a deterance.

Thats not to say that laws should not be changed to stipulate a minimum sentence for violent crimes. The problems with that is the bleeding hearts on the left have never believed in criminal reform and would never vote for it.
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  #73  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 9:26 PM
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You very much nailed it.

It is also at the crown attorney's discretion as well. Too much plea bargaining to avoid court cases.

Let's only plea the non-violent victimless crimes and aggressively target and prosecute the criminals that rob and rape and murder and hurt the innocents of the city.
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  #74  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 9:59 PM
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Just when you think it couldn't get any worse for the city's image ....

Spate of high-profile crimes has some calling Winnipeg 'mini-Detroit'

.... is the headline on yahoo.ca

These criminals and the failing justice system are doing massive damage to the city's image which will have an impact on the city for years to come.

Somebody sure as hell better stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ... then openly challenge all the political parties to do there part. At least then the Liberals and the NDP (or what ever they are called these days) will have nowhere to hide. Either they support criminal reform .. or they don't. The people of Winnipeg have the right to know exactly where they stand.

There is only one party pushing for changes for the justice system... but the Conservatives are forced to forgo changes because of the weak stance of the other parties when it comes to crime.
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  #75  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2009, 10:14 PM
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Don't forget the police now have a mandate to raise operating funds due to a shortfall in speeding ticket revenue... Priorities!

And yesterday, during rush hour no less, some sharp-minded rocket surgeon decided to use dozens of police officers in cruisers and motorcycles babysit a handful of runners trotting around the city on the roads. Priorities!

These are some of the things that frustrate me so. When does common sense come into play?
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  #76  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2009, 2:03 AM
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it's really scary... from that map it looks like most of these crimes happen in the inner city core, not even the north end. Just the West End and the area immediately north of downtown... except for the police being beaten by the group... looks like it happened in Portage Avenue? When did that happen? And that Wolseley thing, so weird, looks like that family was targeted by those punks, also weird...
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  #77  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2009, 5:45 AM
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a direct line can be drawn between povery and crime...that is a fact...canada has less poverty and less crime than the US, scandinavia has less poverty and less crime than we do...

the systemic solution to crime in winnipeg is not more police or stronger sentences...it is solving the social imbalance...plain and simple....i know i sound like a true liberal and all you cons think you solve every problem by hitting it with a hammer, but there is no evidence that stronger sentences reduce crime.

by this theory, you would think that the americans would have no crime at all ...they electrocute people like third world countries do for goodness sake...the americans have a crime rate 3-4 times higher than ours....their murder rates are 4 times higher, yet they have 8 times more people in jail than we do....they have more people in jail than any country on earth...clearly that solution does not work....not so coincidentally, the social divide between rich and poor is also the greatest in the united states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration

when a 15 year old kid decides to join a gang, its because he has no other options....more police wont affect his decision....if you can remove that kid from poverty he wont join a gang....he sees that decision as a solution to his problem....as a society we need to allow him better avenues to turn.

as far as the aboriginal debate goes, i have no problem calling it for what it is....in canada we have a problem with aboriginal poverty...that can not be argued...i can reel off statistics as long as my arm proving it....it is a national problem that has to be solved.

winnipeg bears the brunt of this national failure because it is a place where aboriginal people settle when they urbanize.....we have poverty issues because we have a large population from our nation's most impoverished group.

it is not racism to say this....they do not commit crime because they are aboriginal...they commit crime because they are poor...an aboriginal kid who grew up in river heights and went to kelvin high school is no more likely to become a criminal than a similar white kid...just as a white kid growing up in poverty in the north end is just as likely to become a criminal as a similar aboriginal.....it just happens that a large porportion of aboriginal people are poor because of the cycle they have been entered into.

poverty breeds poverty...its a never ending cycle that started long ago and today we pay for it as a society...it is so easy to say it is cowardice to choose a gang, but you have not had to face the challenges that these kids face....they have no other options....your comments are pure arrogance and ignorance.

as a nation, we have to figure out how to solve the issue of aboriginal poverty not only on reserves but in our cities as well.

call me a socialist if you want but the solution to crime can only be the same as the solution to poverty....solve one and you have solved the other....we need to narrow the widening gap between rich and poor in our country and make sure that we are taking care of the weakest segment of our population....we seem to have forgotten this ideal over the last while.....you solve the crime issue by expanding and improving our social safety net as well as providing opportunities for those who come from a disadvantaged situation.

a good society isnt judged by its GDP....it is judged on how it treats its poorest citizens.

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 27, 2009 at 6:40 AM.
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  #78  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2009, 6:16 AM
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If poverty was generally not accompanied by crime in one era, but is accompanied by crime in another era, then the thesis that poverty causes crime doesn't seem very convincing. If you gave every gang member in Winnipeg $100,000 tomorrow, I doubt that they'd suddenly retire from their lives of crime and become solid upstanding citizens.
40 years ago the homicide rate in winnipeg was 2.95/100 000....in 2008 it was 3.6/100 000.....not much difference.

it is mind boggling that anyone could argue that there is no link between poverty and crime.....it isnt simply poverty however, but the level of social disparity...probably an explanation for crime being lower in previous eras (if that is indeed true) where the divide between rich and poor was smaller.

i agree that if you gave every gang member $100k they wouldnt likely change, but if you could somehow put every kid who would eventually become a gang member in proper housing, gave them opportunity, education and a stable social situation, before they made that fateful decision, you probably wouldnt have many gang members.

Last edited by trueviking; Sep 27, 2009 at 6:38 AM.
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  #79  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2009, 6:21 AM
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Oh my God, Mr. Rogers...
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  #80  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2009, 3:03 PM
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I don't believe that kids join gangs because they live in poverty. There are many kids who come from impoverished families and they never join gangs. That direct line that someone said is drawn between poverty and crime? Since all poor people do not necessarily breed criminals, I think that line actually is drawn between those that are taught no self respect and those who were never taught to take responsibility for their actions and crime.

There are many people whose families are considered poor, and the parents in those families still teach their children values and social responsibility.

My parents came from very poor, impoverished backgrounds. They were also taught to be thankful for what they had - I think that is the difference. You can be poor and still have morals.
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