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  #81  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 10:11 PM
m0nkyman m0nkyman is offline
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Give 'em the full height, but hold out for a design review and make it contingent on getting the gallery. I have no problem with making them work for their money, so long as we make it clear that playing ball will end up making them money. The city is basically saying to them that they won't be allowed to make enough money to make it worth spending the upfront costs of getting the building designed, the museum lobbied for, and all the other up front costs that this thing is going to need.

Dumb.

Tell them that they'll get their density if they win, but demand that it be attractive and that they need to win the museum. How hard is that to negotiate?
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  #82  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2008, 11:12 PM
MilesDavis MilesDavis is offline
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Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
Give 'em the full height, but hold out for a design review and make it contingent on getting the gallery. ...

Tell them that they'll get their density if they win, but demand that it be attractive and that they need to win the museum. How hard is that to negotiate?
When will the gallery winner be announced?

If it's more than a couple of months then Claridge won't bother. You can't go to market with a condo unless you are sure of the density. It makes no sense to sell a 27 storey condo when it could all be taken away from you if the city doesn't win the competition and you lose 10 floors.
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  #83  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 11:21 AM
ajldub ajldub is offline
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There's no way Ottawa is going to win this competition, unfortunately. There's an article in the Globe today:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rtainment/home

that mentions the province of Alberta will contribute $40 000 000 to whatever Albertan city wins the gallery. With the Conservatives' love of fiscal prudence trumping national vision again and again I think it's safe to say these portraits are gone and we can continue to enjoy our parking lot on Metcalfe. This REALLY bugs me. It's too bad Chretien didn't put the shovel in the ground on this one before he left office...
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  #84  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 4:27 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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There's no way Ottawa is going to win this competition, unfortunately. There's an article in the Globe today:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rtainment/home

that mentions the province of Alberta will contribute $40 000 000 to whatever Albertan city wins the gallery. With the Conservatives' love of fiscal prudence trumping national vision again and again I think it's safe to say these portraits are gone and we can continue to enjoy our parking lot on Metcalfe. This REALLY bugs me. It's too bad Chretien didn't put the shovel in the ground on this one before he left office...
I can't say I like the game, but Ottawa certainly won't win if they don't play it. There's no reason why Ontario and Ottawa can't match the Alberta offer if they are serious.
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  #85  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 6:58 PM
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I agree with kwoldtimer. And there is no reason why the 20- and 24-storey height on the proposed towers should stand in the way.

And by the way, Alberta is offering $40 million to do what exactly? Has the Alberta government disclosed the terms of this contribution? Who will receive it, the developer or the gallery? For what purpose - construction, maintenance, moving costs? Who will administer it, the developer or the gallery? Who will be accountable for how that money is used? The Ottawa bid should certainly be asking those questions because this looks like a very hazy type of arrangement.
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  #86  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2008, 11:49 PM
ajldub ajldub is offline
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I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Queen's Park would offer one penny towards a federal cultural institution to be located in Ottawa, the way we're getting along these days. The sad thing is how botched this has become, and how pathetic it makes us look as a people who want to be proud of their country and its capital city.
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  #87  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2008, 4:18 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Am I the only one who finds it offensive that other levels of government are using tax money to effectively bribe the federal government to locate the Portrait Gallery in one city or another. Regardless if its municipal or provincial or federal money, its all still coming from the taxpayer.
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  #88  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2008, 1:48 PM
ajldub ajldub is offline
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Why is a provincial government paying for a federal institution? And what kind of policy is shifting costs to provincial and municipal governments when surpluses are running so high? Unbelievable...
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  #89  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2008, 1:58 PM
p_xavier p_xavier is offline
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Let's all wish that a federal government election will resolve this "issue".
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  #90  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2008, 5:17 PM
ajldub ajldub is offline
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That would be great actually. Maybe it could go full circle and just get built where it was supposed to but ten years and way too much cash later, in typical Ottawa style
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  #91  
Old Posted Apr 14, 2008, 9:11 PM
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Here's the article in full.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/

Quote:
Race narrows to three cities

Developers in Ottawa and now Edmonton have stepped up, while Calgary has put itself in the driver's seat


KATE TAYLOR

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

E-mail Kate Taylor | Read Bio | Latest Columns

April 12, 2008 at 8:22 AM EDT

The race to build a national portrait gallery is emerging as one that reflects current political tensions in the country: In the home stretch, it's Ottawa and Calgary in the lead, but now with Edmonton in a surprise sprint coming up from behind.

The city of Ottawa will vote later this month on a proposal by a private developer to build a home for the gallery at the base of two condo towers that the company hopes to construct on a site it is buying six blocks from Parliament. Meanwhile, the city of Calgary has chosen two prime downtown sites owned by that municipality and is interviewing prospective developers with a view to launching a bid. In Edmonton, a private developer is preparing a bid to include a building for the gallery attached to an office tower that is part of the redevelopment of the downtown Station Lands.

This week, the federal government extended the deadline for bids from April 16 to May 16, after Calgary had sought an extension until June. However, it increasingly appears that only these three cities will come forward, despite some initial interest from developers in Vancouver and Halifax. The scarcity of bids - nine cities in total were invited to compete - reflects the unusual nature of the competition, which invited private developers, rather than civic governments, to take the lead and then round up local support. Ironically, Quebec City, the home of federal Heritage Minister Josée Verner, who has defended the competition as an exercise in democratic decentralization, looks unlikely to be a player. (The other cities were Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg.)

The competition was launched last fall, a year after the Conservative government had stopped work on renovations to the former U.S. embassy on Wellington Street in Ottawa, where the previous Liberal government had already spent $11-million to start building a home for the gallery. (The Portrait Gallery of Canada is currently a virtual museum, with a real collection owned by Library and Archives Canada and warehoused in Gatineau, Que.) In most instances where Canadian cultural institutions are housed in mixed developments, the arts group and the city government have worked together to find a suitable private partner. The government's request for proposals turned that proposition on its head, seeking private developers in the nine cities to come forward with schemes to build the gallery that then needed to show local support. In that regard, Edmonton's bid looks like the closest match for the government's odd model: Qualico, a large western commercial and residential developer, is suggesting it will build a three-storey home for the gallery as a "podium" on the 28-storey Epcor office tower it is constructing on the vacant Station Lands at the northwest corner of the downtown core. The bid, which would locate the gallery a block and a half from the performing arts and civic facilities in Churchill Square, is politically supported by the city but has, however, no municipal financial contribution.

In Ottawa, a private developer, Claridge Homes, is also taking the lead, but it still needs city approval for its plan that would almost double the permitted density on a site it owns at the corner of Metcalfe and Lisgar streets, just six blocks from where the gallery was to have been housed originally. If city council, which will vote on the plan April 23, approves it, the developer would be permitted to build a 20-storey tower and a 24-storey tower on a site where zoning would only permit one 27-storey structure. The city, which has already voted to waive up to $430,000 in development fees for whoever builds a portrait gallery, now has to decide if it will trade a large increase in density on the site for the chance to keep a national cultural institution in the capital.

In Calgary, the city is running the show, refashioning the request for proposals as the kind of publicly driven project that is the more common way to build a public institution. It has selected two prime sites where the gallery could be located, both of them currently owned by the municipality. The first is on the west side of the Olympic Plaza, home to city hall, the central library and the Epcor Centre for the Performing Arts. The second site is on the downtown side of the Bow River, at the foot of the bridge that leads over to the hip neighbourhood of Kensington. Calgary has already set aside $500,000 for its bid and, as an added boost to either Albertan city, the provincial government has set aside $40-million as a contribution to the gallery once it opens.

The free land and the provincial contribution leave Calgary with a decided edge, says one Ottawa observer. "The federal government is looking for the cheapest gallery possible... ," said Ottawa city councillor Diane Holmes, who does not support the idea of increasing density on the Metcalfe Street site that is located in her ward and expects heated debate at the Ottawa meeting April 23. "It looks like the call for proposals is designed for Calgary: Calgary is providing free land, the development charges will be waived and the government of Alberta is putting up $40-million."

The federal government expects to chose a winner in early October and wants the facility to be completed in the spring of 2012.
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  #92  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2008, 7:23 PM
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I was out for a walk at noon today and I snapped a shot of the proposed site..

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  #93  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2008, 7:27 PM
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Oh and also, a good way to attract more transit ridership, is to lifted those height restrictions such as that site. A densification of the core will help to attract more ridership to answer the concerns of possible lack of riderships, concerns mentionned by some politicians
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  #94  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2008, 7:27 PM
ajldub ajldub is offline
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Something tells me come 2012 that parking lot will look mighty similar to today's photo, Harlie...
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  #95  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2008, 7:46 PM
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Diane Holmes, who does not support the idea of increasing density on the Metcalfe Street site that is located in her ward and expects heated debate at the Ottawa meeting April 23.
The first thing Diane Holmes needs to figure out is that it is not "HER" ward. She only represents a select few residents of the ward who actively oppose any densification in the DT core, even on sites such as this where it is completely justified. I'd be curious to see how many people living in the area are opposed to replacing that desolate parking lot with two condo towers and a national institution. Bringing more people (and potentially ground level retail and services) to the area can only be positive for those already living there. In fact, the only people possibly hurt by this would be the suburban commuters who park their SUVs in that lot during the day before escaping to their oversized (and overserviced) lots at 4pm sharp. Get rid of that lady, she is holding back the development of the city based solely on her own backwards ideas and values.
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  #96  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2008, 3:53 AM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey View Post
The first thing Diane Holmes needs to figure out is that it is not "HER" ward. She only represents a select few residents of the ward who actively oppose any densification in the DT core, even on sites such as this where it is completely justified. I'd be curious to see how many people living in the area are opposed to replacing that desolate parking lot with two condo towers and a national institution. Bringing more people (and potentially ground level retail and services) to the area can only be positive for those already living there. In fact, the only people possibly hurt by this would be the suburban commuters who park their SUVs in that lot during the day before escaping to their oversized (and overserviced) lots at 4pm sharp. Get rid of that lady, she is holding back the development of the city based solely on her own backwards ideas and values.
Maybe when Ottawa loses the gallery to Calgary or Edmonton, she'll get over it and appreciate suggestions to waive all height restrictions downtown as a great way for Ottawa to thumb its nose at the current government (Peace Tower, what Peace Tower? Where?)
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  #97  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2008, 4:55 AM
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Maybe when Ottawa loses the gallery to Calgary or Edmonton, she'll get over it and appreciate suggestions to waive all height restrictions downtown as a great way for Ottawa to thumb its nose at the current government (Peace Tower, what Peace Tower? Where?)
Be careful what you wish for. The inevitable response by the federal gov't would be to get the NCC to expropriate all the land downtown and demolish all the buildings in order to turn it into a lovely urban park with leisurely parkways criss-crossing it. They could move all the bureaucrats to Calgary and Edmonton or the highest bidder.
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  #98  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2008, 1:59 PM
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Mille Sabords Mille Sabords is offline
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
Be careful what you wish for. The inevitable response by the federal gov't would be to get the NCC to expropriate all the land downtown and demolish all the buildings in order to turn it into a lovely urban park with leisurely parkways criss-crossing it. They could move all the bureaucrats to Calgary and Edmonton or the highest bidder.
nice!
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  #99  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2008, 8:12 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is online now
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
Be careful what you wish for. The inevitable response by the federal gov't would be to get the NCC to expropriate all the land downtown and demolish all the buildings in order to turn it into a lovely urban park with leisurely parkways criss-crossing it. They could move all the bureaucrats to Calgary and Edmonton or the highest bidder.
Hmmm... That would be one way to spruce up Centretown
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  #100  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2008, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lrt's friend View Post
Am I the only one who finds it offensive that other levels of government are using tax money to effectively bribe the federal government.
couldnt agree more....an institution like a national museum should be located where it is most appropriate, not sold to the highest bidder....i think we all know where harper will go with this though.

i just wanted to mention that winnipeg also submitted a proposal...not sure why it was left out of the article....the city is turning over a prime piece of land near where the human rights museum is being built...

winnipeg is a long shot for sure, what sets it apart is the fact that construction costs are half of what they are in the other cities and that it is proposed to be a stand alone building, not the base of condo or office development like in each other proposal....the government might not love a national museum being part of "portrait gallery manor"...but who knows.

winnipeg's site within the city seems to be more prominent than the others, but its still in winnipeg, so that is obviously a strike against.

i just dont want it to go to an alberta city.
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