Salt Lake Transit News Thread - Page 89

Future Mayor · #**1761** Posted **Jun 1, 2009, 5:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

They're doing that now, why would they cut that service? What benefit will they get in August from stopping the blue line at the Arena station 3 stops sooner than they currently are?

Because I'm guessing that the demand isn't there for it and rather than make a change now and another one in August, maybe they think it will make more sense to make the changes and addition of the new line all at the same time. I understand your frustration, but if the ridership numbers were there, they probably wouldn't be planning to eliminate the service. I would guess that the general overall perception of eliminating the Blue line to Central Station would have much more public outcry and "controversy" if done along, but by adding an additional line, while eliminating some service won't be perceived as a loss but as an overall gain.

arkhitektor · #**1762** Posted **Jun 1, 2009, 5:17 PM**

I'm not personally frustrated by the change because I've quit riding TRAX completely. I walk or bike to the Clearfield FrontRunner station, ride the train to Salt Lake then drive to my office in Murray. On the way home, I leave my car parked overnight across the street from SL Central. I only drive home on weekends. This saves about 30 minutes vs. riding TRAX and I have a car for any work-related driving I need to do during the day.

It just seems that given the enormous public and political support that UTA is enjoying, they could do a lot better than they are now.

cololi · #**1763** Posted **Jun 1, 2009, 5:26 PM**

I do think in the long run the idea is for people to use commuter rail for trips that cover more than 10 miles (rough number I just grabbed out of the air, but it is suppose to relate to the distance between frontrunner stops), LRT for shorter trips, and street car for trips between neighborhoods. If UTA is able to schedule all the lines correctly and make the fare universal across all trains, then I think they can get everything to work. I like Chicago's fare system: $5 bucks all day. Sounds good, is easy.

As far as ridership goes, Sandy (general area) produces the most downtown riders. They also are expected to produce the most airport users. They also have almost as many riders that go to the University as any other line, WVC is first, but not by much. You obviously cannot have the Sandy line go to all three destinations, but you can get it to hit two: downtown and airport. I think the reason behind teh sandy line stopping at Arena is to prepare it for interlining it with the airport line, so the Blue line (Sandy line) hits downtown and the airport. From an operational stand point, I see the logic in this. But I still don't like the North Temple frontrunner station because it really does take away a great deal of traffic from Central Station.

The key in the entire transportation system is to get the downtown bypass built. This is in the City's long range plans and the EIS was down as part of the University Line, so it simply needs updating. The most troubling aspect to me is the North Temple Station. When I stated that Central Station would be abandoned, I was over exagerating a bit. But if the entire system was based off of that point, then we could have a very well coordinated transit system that is easy to use, convenient and effective at actually making a dent in the negative impacts associated with all forms of transportation. Not to mention the incredible development potential for the area around Central Station. I think the are will develope nicely, but it would happen a lot faster if Central Station were the center of the transit universe along the wasatch front.

jtrent77 · #**1764** Posted **Jun 1, 2009, 11:18 PM**

I wonder if part of the reason that all trains don't go to central right now (or soon to be as the case is) is because central couldn't handle it--3 lines, two of which are every 15 minutes, and one which is every 30--that leaves you about 5 minutes or so to stop and get the train "turned around" and then get back on the right track (naturally after leaving the station). Is this enough time? Probably, but it might be cutting it close, so easier to just have 2 trains going in there now to save on congestion. I would imagine though at some point if the loop is built that everyone is talking about that the loop will ease the problems and trains will just circle rather than having to "turn around."

Just my thoughts on the matter. I know that here in DC the most frequent trains ever run is about 8 minutes apart--so two lines sharing one track is about 3 - 4 minutes between colors--and DC has been at it for a good 20 years longer, so give SLC a bit of time and they'll be right on track.

MetroFanatic · #**1765** Posted **Jun 1, 2009, 11:52 PM**

I'm sort of mixed on the issue.

First and foremost, I absolutely love the idea of changing the lines to colors. Even though the majority of light rail systems and subways go by this, it's just easy and efficient, especially for tourists.

Secondly, I'm mixed on the issue because I live near the future 4800 West station and since I only use Trax to get to the U it's quite efficient for me, yet at the same time, I can see where problems are going to arise with everyone else.

Although, I hope the 30 minute wait on the green line changes when it is completely finished... I can't even stand 15 minutes of waiting. I always take long routes walking through the U's campus just so I don't have to wait.

DENrising · #**1766** Posted **Jun 11, 2009, 2:41 AM**

Where did you guys find that info bout the red, blue, green lines? i've looked on uta's site, couldn't find it anywhere.

Octavian · #**1767** Posted **Jun 11, 2009, 3:01 AM**

Do you have pictures of your Central Station. I could only find one on wikipedia, but it looked nice. Any links you can point me to to find out more about it?

DENrising · #**1768** Posted **Jun 11, 2009, 3:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Octavian

Do you have pictures of your Central Station. I could only find one on wikipedia, but it looked nice. Any links you can point me to to find out more about it?

Take a look at this thread, I took a lot of those pics when it opened in april 08, delts posted them.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=150074

shakman · #**1769** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 5:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLCrising

Take a look at this thread, I took a lot of those pics when it opened in april 08, delts posted them.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=150074

Are there any interior pics of FrontRunner?

electricron · #**1770** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 7:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakman

Are there any interior pics of FrontRunner?

Yes, here's some!

Bombardier built BiLevel car:
Lower Level

Stairs

Comet single level car:

John Martin · #**1771** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 7:43 PM**

That last one isn't part of frontrunner, is it?

shakman · #**1772** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 7:48 PM**

electricon - Thank you for sharing. The outside of the cars look so nice that I was for some reason thinking in the line of an Amtrak style interior.

arkhitektor · #**1773** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

That last one isn't part of frontrunner, is it?

Yes, it's one of the refurbished cars from NJ Transit. UTA uses them on the extra trains that leave Ogden in the mornings at 6:55 and the one that leaves SL Central in the evenings at 5:10. (The trains normally run at 30 min. intervals, but there's an extra train in the morning and evening making a brief period each day with 15 minute headways.) I'm not sure if they use them at other times as well.

I think that more of them will be used when FrontRunner South is completed. For now, they seem to have enough of the new bi-level cars to use them for most of the schedule.

LA's Metrolink also leases some of them from UTA and uses them with the new UTA livery:

Kind of weird to see actually. Sort of like when UTA was running DART trains during the Olympics.

As for the interiors of the bi-level cars, I think the colors are kind of bland. RailRunner in NM uses the exact same equipment, but they have a much more lively looking interior in theirs:

Compared to:

John Martin · #**1774** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 10:03 PM**

Huh, that's new to me. I thought the interior was very nice when I rode it, but I think that's mainly because it was new and smelled good. The seats are bland looking, sort of like an old delta jet, I suppose I would prefer red to blue, but I appreciate the vinyl headrests. When I rode it I was facing the rear of the train, eating chinese food, and kind of felt nauseous after a while.. after that I don't really care what the cars look like, I just hope people don't throw up in them

So...
it seems frontrunner is too:
expensive
inconvenient
slow
bumpy
wobbly
and boring.

urbanboy · #**1775** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 10:32 PM**

Who do you work for, GM motors?

I heard riding the Front-Runner was like gliding on butter.

Cars:
are very expensive
(so is gas)
are dangerous
are time consuming
are a threat to public health
have created many of our inconveniences and proclaim to be the convenient solution.

John Martin · #**1776** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 10:59 PM**

It's just GM, not general motors motors. But no, I don't, I'm just a common person pointing out why the system they're encouraging us to use is a bust, at least for me.

Maybe it has been convenient for you, based on your experience..? For people like me, who already have a car, the money saved by taking frontrunner (if any) just isn't enough to make up for its cons. Unless you think it's more convenient to pay and wait for 3 buses, a slow train, and then 3 more buses and perhaps even a taxi to get where I want to go, using frontrunner, then I really don't see how taking a car is less time-consuming when going somewhere like store in clearfield. Heck, I'd rather risk getting in a car accident than a confrontation in skid row, aka the intermodal hub.

arkhitektor · #**1777** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 11:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

Huh, that's new to me. I thought the interior was very nice when I rode it, but I think that's mainly because it was new and smelled good. The seats are bland looking, sort of like an old delta jet, I suppose I would prefer red to blue, but I appreciate the vinyl headrests. When I rode it I was facing the rear of the train, eating chinese food, and kind of felt nauseous after a while.. after that I don't really care what the cars look like, I just hope people don't throw up in them

So...
it seems frontrunner is too:
expensive
inconvenient
slow
bumpy
wobbly
and boring.

If you ate Chinese food facing backward in a moving car you'd probably feel just as queasy.
Also, if you think that FrontRunner trains are bumpy and wobbly, you probably haven't ever ridden TRAX, or any other train for that matter. The ride is very smooth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

It's just GM, not general motors motors. But no, I don't, I'm just a common person pointing out why the system they're encouraging us to use is a bust, at least for me.

Maybe it has been convenient for you, based on your experience..? For people like me, who already have a car, the money saved by taking frontrunner (if any) just isn't enough to make up for its cons. Unless you think it's more convenient to pay and wait for 3 buses, a slow train, and then 3 more buses and perhaps even a taxi to get where I want to go, using frontrunner, then I really don't see how taking a car is less time-consuming when going somewhere like store in clearfield. Heck, I'd rather risk getting in a car accident than a confrontation in skid row, aka the intermodal hub.

If you're taking FrontRunner to go grocery shopping in Clearfield, you've missed the point entirely. It's a commuter train. And for commuters it does a good job. For me, driving from downtown to Clearfield isn't much faster than riding the train.

urbanboy · #**1778** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 11:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

It's just GM, not general motors motors.

You're right, it's just GM. My mistake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

I really don't see how taking a car is less time-consuming when going somewhere like store in clearfield. Heck, I'd rather risk getting in a car accident than a confrontation in skid row, aka the intermodal hub.

When one is driving, hopefully that's all she is trying to do. But how productive is that really? There are many things that one could be doing while traveling on a "slow train" going 75 miles an hour.

Perhaps the current mass transit infrastructure isn't as convenient as it could be, but your criticism is not going to help promote a future system that depends on potential transit riders. Your comments will only detract from that possibility.

John Martin · #**1779** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 11:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

If you ate Chinese food facing backward in a moving car you'd probably feel just as queasy.
Also, if you think that FrontRunner trains are bumpy and wobbly, you probably haven't ever ridden TRAX, or any other train for that matter. The ride is very smooth.

I realize that those factors together are why I was nauseous.. I just made a simple remark... Perhaps the ride would've been smoother if I were on the first level, trax doesn't feel the same because it doesn't go near as fast and doesn't have big long turns. The problem I think with frontrunner is that the tracks are tilted too much; it may be necessary to accommodate the train in a long turn (of which there are several), it just felt like the train wasn't going fast enough to use centrifugal force to it's advantage, like a racecar does on a track.

Quote:

If you're taking FrontRunner to go grocery shopping in Clearfield, you've missed the point entirely. It's a commuter train. And for commuters it does a good job. For me, driving from downtown to Clearfield isn't much faster than riding the train.

I agree, that's obviously the main problem is that not enough "commuters" are using it. Maybe if it weren't empty I wouldn't waste a precious seat on my way to pick up a little manifold. On my way to the air show last week one of my friends asked me to drop him off at the intermodal hub because he hadn't taken the train yet. I got to ogden 20 minutes before he did, if the train really does get up to 75 MPH, it must only be for a few minutes.

urbanboy · #**1780** Posted **Jun 16, 2009, 11:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Martin

On my way to the air show last week one of my friends asked me to drop him off at the intermodal hub because he hadn't taken the train yet. I got to ogden 20 minutes before he did, if the train really does get up to 75 MPH, it must only be for a few minutes.

Did you and the train leave the Intermodal Hub at the same time?