Bay Area Transportation Tidbits

[viewguysf]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

I thought the world's largest cruise ships were too tall to fit under either the GGB or Bay Bridge. I'm sure they've thought this through, so I'm curious as to what I'm missing here.

The world's largest ocean liner/cruise ship has already visited San Francisco. The Queen Mary 2 came under the Golden Gate Bridge on February 4th of this year and left the following evening. The Chronicle claimed that it was the biggest ship of any type to ever have sailed into San Francisco Bay.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in589872.shtml

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&sn=002&sc=823

[peanut gallery]

I did a little research and figured out where my confusion lies. According to this MSNBC article, the largest cruise ship in history will be constructed for Royal Caribbean. It will rise 240 feet above water level. Mean GGB clearance is 220 feet, although at low tide it is higher. This must be what I was thinking about. This is next generation, biggest-of-the-big-scale and not what they are talking about in the original article. They clearly mean the current largest ships.

Regarding today's largest, the Queen Mary 2 is the longest at 1132 feet, but Cruisesfun.com says the largest is the Freedom of the Seas. My guess is they are measuring by tonnage, not length, height, etc. Also, this ship is 208 feet tall and can fit "comfortably" under the GGB. So you're right viewguy, today's biggest ships can go under both bridges with no problem, pending the tides.

It was pretty exciting having the Queen Mary 2 here. Do you remember when the Port of Oakland was bringing in those huge new cranes to handle the new generation of container ships? That was amazing. They fit under the GGB by 11 feet, but only had 25 inches of clearance under the Bay Bridge. I remember they had to wait for low tide at the GGB, then wait off TI for the next low tide to squeeze under the Bay Bridge. Here's the Chronicle's story from 2000.

[viewguysf]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

It was pretty exciting having the Queen Mary 2 here. Do you remember when the Port of Oakland was bringing in those huge new cranes to handle the new generation of container ships? That was amazing. They fit under the GGB by 11 feet, but only had 25 inches of clearance under the Bay Bridge. I remember they had to wait for low tide at the GGB, then wait off TI for the next low tide to squeeze under the Bay Bridge. Here's the Chronicle's story from 2000.

Yes, I watched the QM2 sail in from Crissy Field and it definitely was exciting; there was a real buzz in the air from the crowds everywhere. The ship was not able to moor at Pier 27 until the tide came in, so it waited off of downtown for hours while everyone on board dined and partied.

The cranes were amazing--there was a pic of a hardhat guy riding on top of one of the cranes and he could easily reach up and touch the bottom of the Bay Bridge at low tide.

[bmfarley]

Originally Posted by kenratboy

I seriously doubt he cares about facts, just principle.

Well... I'd agree with you if you mean principal equals his opinion being the only credible and correct opinion there is.

[BTinSF]

Obviously this is a bit of pre-election campaigning but SPUR's positions on issues are usually interesting and worth knowing about:

Friday, November 2, 2007
San Francisco economy rides on mass transit
San Francisco Business Times - by Gabriel Metcalf

For anyone who cares about San Francisco's economy, nothing could be more terrifying than the prospect of Muni's continued decline.

Less Muni ridership translates directly into less economic activity, reduced employment, and reduced sales activity. If there were ever a back-to-basics business reform, it is this year's attempt to fix Muni.

Downtown San Francisco grew up as the central node for the city's streetcar network. After World War II, as most U.S. cities abandoned this model for a dispersed, car-oriented system, the Bay Area chose to reinvent the old model by building BART to bring in commuters from the suburbs. Since the 1970s, the city has further supported a transit-based downtown by limiting parking in new office buildings.

The result: Seven in 10 people who work downtown get there without a single-occupant vehicle.

One lane of traffic typically carries fewer than 900 passengers per hour if each person drives a car, while the Muni buses on Geary already carry about 2,500 passengers per hour, and could double or triple with planned improvements. If we want to grow our economy, we have no choice but to increase the share of trips taken on transit.

And yet we as a city seem to have lost track of what it takes to have a great transit system. Our most important transit streets have become clogged with congestion, causing average speeds on surface transit to decline 20 percent to a crawling 8 mph systemwide, and only 5 mph in the downtown core. Yet, we have been unwilling to give Muni separated right of way -- in fact, there has been war over modest proposals to create "bus rapid transit" on Geary.

While some Muni routes are constantly over-crowded with standing-room-only passengers, others run mostly-empty buses -- yet we have not been willing to allow Muni to make market-oriented decisions to concentrate service where it will be most productive. While the agency has been forced to cut positions for supervisors, cut maintenance, miss routes, and reduce service because of its structural deficit, we have not intervened to boost funding.

While transit use increased by 3 percent nationally, Muni lost 2 percent of its riders last year.

There is no quick fix. But on Tuesday, San Francisco voters can take a step forward in the form of Proposition A. This Charter reform is the next step in a long reform effort. If enacted, it would allow Muni to keep more funding from parking meters ($26 million per year); increase exempt employees; guarantee a pay raise for workers; and transfer control over traffic minutiae to transportation professionals and away from the Board of Supervisors. As with any measure that is politically realistic, this measure is not perfect, but it is very, good.

Prop. A deserves your support.

Gabriel Metcalf is executive director of San Francisco Planning and Urban Research.

Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranci...ditorial4.html

[peanut gallery]

From the Marin Independent Journal:

Trolley transit seen as possible system in Marin
By Mark Prado
Article Launched: 10/31/2007 04:51:27 PM PDT

Two local architects think Marin is primed for a trolley system to take people from town to town, much the way rail got people around the county almost a century ago.

The streetcars in their system would reflect a 1900s style.

"We are looking at trolleys that are replicas of antiques," said Michael Rex, a Sausalito architect who has developed a preliminary plan for a trolley system. A company in Iowa makes the retro rides.

"They have an older, more charming character that fits Marin. We think modern-day streetcars that you see in San Francisco are a bit too urban for Marin," Rex said.

Rex and architect Allan Nichol of Mill Valley are serious about building a trolley system in Marin that would have lines from Novato to Sausalito that run on tracks that would be built into the road and flow with car traffic.

"We are not talking about a separate right-of-way here, but running in the street," Rex said. "We think it will take people out of their cars."

The trolleys would run on electricity and connect to a single overhead wire.

The plan has caught the interest of local officials who think the idea has value as the county continues to struggle with traffic.

"It's a great idea," said Supervisor Charles McGlashan. "Transportation should be fun and convenient."

Sausalito City Councilman Paul Albritton also likes the idea.

"It's an alternative that is worth looking at," he said. "It's a laudable goal for the future, although the cost could be an issue."

The architects estimate it would cost $20 million to $50 million to get a demonstration line running between The Depot in Mill Valley and the ferry terminal in Sausalito. A line running down Miller Avenue and then Bridgeway with stops every half- to quarter-mile could be up and running in five years.

A jitney system would be part of the plan to take people to and from the trolleys.

The duo is looking at trying to get funding from the federal government, the Marin Community Foundation and the Metropolitan Transportation Commission for an engineering study to get the plan rolling.

"It makes a lot of sense," Nichol said. "Half of Marin's greenhouse gases are emitted from cars. This has a legitimate chance of getting people out of their cars."

The architects note that most car trips in the county are less than two miles, which would make the streetcars a logical way to get around a community. Trolleys could also serve San Rafael, Novato, Fairfax, Ross, San Anselmo and Tiburon.

Trains played a big role in moving people around the county during the early part of the 20th Century, with rail lines connecting communities. As the car became dominant, those lines were ripped out. But with cars now smothering roadways, Rex sees rails as a remedy.

"It could make a huge difference and be fun," he said.

[BTinSF]

^^^""We are looking at trolleys that are replicas of antiques," said Michael Rex, a Sausalito architect who has developed a preliminary plan for a trolley system. A company in Iowa makes the retro rides.

"They have an older, more charming character that fits Marin. We think modern-day streetcars that you see in San Francisco are a bit too urban for Marin," Rex said."

Marin is constantly at risk of becoming too cute and charming for its own good.

[krudmonk]

How would that work in Marin? Aren't the towns a little too far apart? Trolleys are more of an intra-city thing, not inter-city.

[Gordo]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

How would that work in Marin? Aren't the towns a little too far apart? Trolleys are more of an intra-city thing, not inter-city.

I think you're ignoring the "cutesy" aspect It would be so swell to ride on an antique trolley between towns that time would literally stand still while you rode.

In related news - Marin has formally banned the sale of milk in all stores. All milk must be hand-delivered in glass bottles from the back of an antique 1920's truck.

[peanut gallery]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

How would that work in Marin? Aren't the towns a little too far apart? Trolleys are more of an intra-city thing, not inter-city.

It could work in some places: Mill Valley to Sausalito; a line from there up through Corte Madera, Larkspur and maybe up to San Rafael, San Anselmo and Fairfax. All that is pretty contiguous. I can't see it running all the way up to Novato though. There's a pretty long gap from central San Rafael to central Novato.

[Frisco_Zig]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

It could work in some places: Mill Valley to Sausalito; a line from there up through Corte Madera, Larkspur and maybe up to San Rafael, San Anselmo and Fairfax. All that is pretty contiguous. I can't see it running all the way up to Novato though. There's a pretty long gap from central San Rafael to central Novato.

This belongs in the amusement park section. It has nothing to do with public transit

[Reminiscence]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

It could work in some places: Mill Valley to Sausalito; a line from there up through Corte Madera, Larkspur and maybe up to San Rafael, San Anselmo and Fairfax. All that is pretty contiguous. I can't see it running all the way up to Novato though. There's a pretty long gap from central San Rafael to central Novato.

I agree, however, it seems to me that as long as they are concidering building some sort of rail, it might as well be an effective form of rail. I'm not sure how much of an impact a trolley will have concidering how much traffic usually forms around that area. Every time I drive through there after coming back from up north, I think of how that area screams rail transit. A faster rail option should open more destinations farther up north like SMART did once (or still does?).

[northbay]

surprised nobody posted this yet

S.F. vote for more parking losing in early voting

Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer

Wednesday, November 7, 2007

San Francisco voters were defeating a measure to create significantly more parking in the city, and were closely divided on a plan to pump more money into the Municipal Railway transit system, early election returns showed Tuesday.

Ballots were cast in the city on a wide range of issues - from transportation and horse stables to libraries and free Internet access. Another measure was pure politics, highlighting the ongoing tension between the mayor and the Board of Supervisors.

Proposition E would require the city's mayor to show up at a Board of Supervisors meeting once a month to engage in a verbal volley with the city's legislative leaders. In early absentee ballot returns, 49 percent of voters were in favor of San Francisco-style question time; 51 percent were opposed.

Mayor Gavin Newsom's most vocal critics on the Board of Supervisors - chief among them Supervisor Chris Daly - placed Prop. E on the ballot. Last year, voters approved an advisory measure that urged the mayor to submit to supervisors' questions. But Newsom has refused to attend even one of the scheduled sessions, saying they would amount to little more than political theater.

Prop. E would make the mayor's appearance mandatory.

Two other closely watched ballot measures in San Francisco tackled parking and transit - politically contentious issues in the city.

Proposition A, which would funnel at least $26 million more a year into the Municipal Railway, was too close to call in early election returns. The tally showed 50.7 percent in favor and 49.3 percent against.

Muni officials have argued that the transit system needs at least $100 million more a year to make significant service improvements.

Prop. A also would give the transit agency's management more power over budgeting, hiring and firing midlevel managers, and negotiating pay for performance with drivers.

And, with few exceptions, the measure would freeze the city's existing limits on parking spaces that are allowed in new development projects.

Backed by Newsom, a majority on the Board of Supervisors and a coalition of transit advocates, environmentalists and organized labor, Prop. A was touted as a way to provide crucial funding and management tools to help the city's troubled transit system.

But opponents, among them the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce, the Coalition for San Francisco Neighborhoods and the local Republican Party, said San Francisco needs more parking, not less; that the unelected Municipal Transportation Agency board of directors should not be handed more powers; and that Muni should better manage the money it has.

Prop. A also took direct aim at another proposal on the ballot - Proposition H. Prop. A would limit new parking, but Prop. H would pave the way for the creation of significantly more off-street parking in the city - running counter to San Francisco's long-standing transit-first policy that relies on land-use regulations to discourage the use of private automobiles.

Funded largely by Gap founder Don Fisher, Prop. H was headed to defeat in early election returns, with 58 percent opposed.

Fisher also helped fund the campaign against Prop. A.

Prop. H opponents argued that more parking would mean more traffic congestion, but the initiative's supporters say more parking is desperately needed.

Even if a majority of voters approve both transportation-related measures, Prop. A would trump Prop. H because of the way it was drafted.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNG1T3IKR.DTL

[BTinSF]

S.F. to test double-decker bus
Rachel Gordon, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, November 15, 2007
(11-15) 13:40 PST San Francisco - --

City officials revealed today that they are looking at adding double-decker buses to San Francisco's public transit fleet, and will press one into service later this month for a short-term experiment.

The borrowed double-decker bus will travel along some of the city's busiest transit corridors, including Geary and Mission streets, for example, to see how they perform and whether the riding public is keen on the idea.

At 14-feet tall, city officials say there should be no problem of the buses interfering with overhead utility lines. They also can fit through the Stockton Street tunnel as long as drivers stay in the middle lanes.

Double-decker buses, an iconic transportation option in London, "have a lot of advantages," Muni chief Nathaniel Ford told The Chronicle. Among them: They can hold a lot of people without taking up too much room on the congested streets and will be easier to maneuver through traffic and around corners than the long articulated buses.

They also will be easier to store in the city's already jam-packed maintenance yards because they take up less floor space.

The test vehicle will be able to seat 80, with additional standing room.

Disabled rights activists in the city already have raised concern that the stairs would prevent some riders with mobility impairments from accessing the top deck, which would amount to inequitable service. Ford said Muni is committed to addressing the concern in some fashion.

The bus, manufactured by the British firm Alexander Dennis Ltd., will make its test run in San Francisco sometime after Thanksgiving before it is delivered to Las Vegas.

The Regional Transportation Commission of Southern Nevada began operating its double-decker "Deuce" bus service on the Las Vegas strip two years ago and is one of two public transit agencies in the United States to use the two-tiered buses. The system serving Snohomish County and Seattle in Washington began a double-decker bus pilot project over the summer.

San Francisco's test is expected to last about three weeks.

E-mail Rachel Gordon at rgordon@sfchronicle.com.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../BA33TD8AA.DTL

"As long as drivers stay in the middle lanes . . . ." Oops. I'm visualizing, "This ship can make it under the Bay Bridge as long as we stay as far as possible from the piers . . . ."

And then there's the matter of the disabled right to the same view as everyone else--not just the same ride but with the same view. No way to get a wheelchair to the second deck--so scr*w it, everybody has to ride in a crowded one-level bus.

[rs913]

And then there's the matter of the disabled right to the same view as everyone else--not just the same ride but with the same view. No way to get a wheelchair to the second deck--so scr*w it, everybody has to ride in a crowded one-level bus.

This doesn't even make sense...how is riding on the bottom deck "inequitable service"? That's like saying the wheelchair-accessible seats at sporting events (which usually aren't bad, but aren't the best in the house) are inequitable because they're not courtside or on the 50-yard-line. Can't believe something like this could kill the whole plan.

But on the other hand, I wouldn't be sorry if this killed the plan. It's well-documented that MUNI has huge problems with security (as does the whole city, but that's another rant). If you think the back of the bus is bad, what would the upper deck be like? And how would these buses navigate sharp turns and hilly terrain?

[peanut gallery]

Originally Posted by BTinSF

"As long as drivers stay in the middle lanes . . . ." Oops. I'm visualizing, "This ship can make it under the Bay Bridge as long as we stay as far as possible from the piers . . . ."

The other day one of those double decker tour buses was heading down First Street under the Transbay Terminal. I'm pretty sure he didn't intend to go that way and had never done it before because his clearance was about 8 inches. And he only had that going right down the middle, straddling lanes at about 5 MPH. The tourists in the top deck looked strangely unconcerned. Personally, I was worried for them.

[CityKid]

11.14.2007


Union City BART station to become a signature landmark

Top BART, Union City and AC Transit officials broke ground on Tuesday, November 13, on a massive construction project that will transform the Union City BART Station into a spectacular, world-class, solar-powered, multi-modal transit hub where passengers will be able live, work, shop, eat and connect to everything from busses, to BART to Capitol Corridor trains. ACE, Dumbarton Rail and high-speed rail trains may also connect there.

Today's groundbreaking on this signature station marks the beginning of the Union City Intermodal Station project, which costs nearly $100 million. The City of Union City, BART and AC Transit are the lead agencies in this development.

FIRST-OF-ITS-KIND SOLAR POWERED STATION
The station portion of the transit village will be the first in the Bay Area and possibly the nation to run on solar-generated electricity. There will be solar cells on the 700 foot long, 25 foot wide canopy of the $3.5 million, 16-bay bus facility. "Those solar cells will actually generate more electricity than the station will use," Director Thomas Blalock who represents the station said. "The solar panels will produce approximately $23,335 per year in power, which is roughly what BART currently spends on electricity for that station."

Because those solar panels will generate more electricity than the station will consume, BART will redirect the excess electricity into the power grid, as it is not economically feasible to store that electricity. At night, when the solar cells cannot generate electricity, the station will pull its power from the power grid.

AN AMENITY-FILLED TRANSIT VILLAGE
This ambitious plan develops the 80 acres of industrial space surrounding the Union City BART Station into a village with all the modern amenities and conveniences for a people who want to live, work, raise a family and play without having to depend heavily on their car. Within ½ mile of the BART station there will be:

• Up to 1,800 new residential units
• Up to 100,000 square feet of neighborhood-serving retail space
• Up to 1 million square feet of office space

Already, more than two hundred housing units are open and another 438 units are under construction. Crews will construct the office space gradually over the next several years. The Regional Rail Plan calls for the full village to be completed around 2015.

[Reminiscence]

Originally Posted by peanut gallery

The other day one of those double decker tour buses was heading down First Street under the Transbay Terminal. I'm pretty sure he didn't intend to go that way and had never done it before because his clearance was about 8 inches. And he only had that going right down the middle, straddling lanes at about 5 MPH. The tourists in the top deck looked strangely unconcerned. Personally, I was worried for them.

Oh boy, thats an accident waiting to happen. This recent oil spill is an example of how ugly things can get, and they had room to pass, but didnt. I'm open to the idea of these type of busses, but perhaps not that route? If the clearance was only about 8 inches, then you'd probably have to keep people of certain height out of the second deck or someone is going to get hurt.

[San Frangelino]

Originally Posted by CityKid

11.14.2007


Union City BART station to become a signature landmark

Top BART, Union City and AC Transit officials broke ground on Tuesday, November 13, on a massive construction project that will transform the Union City BART Station into a spectacular, world-class, solar-powered, multi-modal transit hub where passengers will be able live, work, shop, eat and connect to everything from busses, to BART to Capitol Corridor trains. ACE, Dumbarton Rail and high-speed rail trains may also connect there.

Today's groundbreaking on this signature station marks the beginning of the Union City Intermodal Station project, which costs nearly $100 million. The City of Union City, BART and AC Transit are the lead agencies in this development.

FIRST-OF-ITS-KIND SOLAR POWERED STATION
The station portion of the transit village will be the first in the Bay Area and possibly the nation to run on solar-generated electricity. There will be solar cells on the 700 foot long, 25 foot wide canopy of the $3.5 million, 16-bay bus facility. "Those solar cells will actually generate more electricity than the station will use," Director Thomas Blalock who represents the station said. "The solar panels will produce approximately $23,335 per year in power, which is roughly what BART currently spends on electricity for that station."

Because those solar panels will generate more electricity than the station will consume, BART will redirect the excess electricity into the power grid, as it is not economically feasible to store that electricity. At night, when the solar cells cannot generate electricity, the station will pull its power from the power grid.

AN AMENITY-FILLED TRANSIT VILLAGE
This ambitious plan develops the 80 acres of industrial space surrounding the Union City BART Station into a village with all the modern amenities and conveniences for a people who want to live, work, raise a family and play without having to depend heavily on their car. Within ½ mile of the BART station there will be:

• Up to 1,800 new residential units
• Up to 100,000 square feet of neighborhood-serving retail space
• Up to 1 million square feet of office space

Already, more than two hundred housing units are open and another 438 units are under construction. Crews will construct the office space gradually over the next several years. The Regional Rail Plan calls for the full village to be completed around 2015.

From: http://www.unioncity.org/commdev/redev_intermodal.htm

[CHapp]

So Fruitvale was a dud, and now they want to try the "transit village" idea again on a bigger scale and with a different twist?