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  #2041  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2014, 11:59 PM
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L.A. to allow spires on skyscrapers, ending 40-year-old flat-roof rule

Wilshire Grand mentioned near the end of article.



"Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti heralded a rule change Monday that will allow the construction of skyscrapers with spires or slanted roofs -- revising a longstanding regulation that forced builders to make flat-topped structures.

The decades-old rule was meant to ensure fire safety by requiring helicopter landing pads atop tall buildings. No other large city in the country has such a rule, according to city officials.

Now, with new technology and design techniques being used to keep Angelenos safe during fires, the prohibition had become outdated, “one more stupid rule in Los Angeles,” Garcetti said in announcing the change.

Architects had bemoaned the old rule, saying it stifled creativity and prevented L.A. builders from crafting a distinctive skyline. City Councilman Jose Huizar said that under the revised regulation, L.A. buildings would no longer be “stuck in the past.”

“After decades of drab, flat-roofed designs the skyscrapers of tomorrow will be bold, unique and imaginative,” said Huizar, whose council district includes much of downtown.

Under the new rule announced Monday, builders will be able to craft skyscrapers that don’t have a helicopter pad on the roof if they include other safety features, such as a fire service elevator for firefighters to swiftly reach a blaze or another set of exit stairs, automatic sprinklers and a video surveillance system.

Fire Department Chief Ralph Terrazas said the changes would not sacrifice fire safety, but instead make tall buildings in Los Angeles the safest in the country. Other department officials pointed to an analysis done in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that had not deemed a rooftop helicopter pad to be necessary for emergency evacuation and rescue.

Mayor Eric Garcetti and others hold a press conference announcing changes to helicopter landing facility requirements for high-rise buildings from the rooftop helipad of the AT&T Tower building at Olive and 11th Streets. (Brian van der Brug / Los Angeles Times)
Builders and politicians who championed the change said it would not only free designers to create inventive buildings but also elevate Los Angeles in the eyes of the world. The skyline of a city is critical to its global image, said former City Councilman Mike Woo, who spent years pushing for L.A. to rescind the flat-roof requirement.

“Anyone who’s been to New York or cities like Shanghai, Hong Kong and even San Francisco can see how the tops of building can help to define the identity of a city,” said Woo, now the dean of the College of Environmental Design at Cal Poly Pomona. “But for Los Angeles, for years, we have limited ourselves.”

Seven years ago, Woo sought to change the rooftop rule while serving as a planning commissioner under Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. The effort went nowhere, he said, with fire department officials saying the move would pose a threat to public safety.

The fire department had continued to oppose such changes in recent years. Terrazas said his department hadn’t gotten any new information since then, but a culture shift had taken place.

“Our fire department culture is resistant to change sometimes,” Terrazas said Monday. “This just made absolute sense to do this.”

The changes were born out of a working group convened by the mayor with Huizar and officials of the fire and building departments, and others.

Huizar earlier pushed for an alternative requirement that allowed a modified landing space for the Wilshire Grand building, still under construction. Now builders will have the option of not including a helicopter landing spot on their rooftop at all, if they meet the other fire safety requirements.

Garcetti announced the change alongside Terrazas, Huizar and other city officials from the rooftop helipad landing of the AT&T Center downtown. The fire department said the original rule dated back to 1974. The new rule applies to buildings measuring more than 75 feet.

Paul Keller, founding principal and chief executive of development company Mack Urban, said the change would allow him to build spires on three tall buildings at a residential development underway to the west. The new requirements will not be more costly than installing a helipad, Keller said.

With the new rule in place, “the sky’s the limit now,” said Chris Martin, chairman and CEO of the AC Martin architecture firm."

Times staff writer David Zahniser contributed to this report.

Article Link: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...929-story.html
     
     
  #2042  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2014, 1:55 AM
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  #2043  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2014, 2:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wootom View Post
“After decades of drab, flat-roofed designs the skyscrapers of tomorrow will be bold, unique and imaginative,” said Huizar, whose council district includes much of downtown.
Ha! And hack architects everywhere rejoice. If a functionless stick on your building is the difference between drab and "unique", you don't have much of a design to begin with.
     
     
  #2044  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
Ha! And hack architects everywhere rejoice. If a functionless stick on your building is the difference between drab and "unique", you don't have much of a design to begin with.
Just be happy that a city official isn't screaming "DEVELOPMENT?!?!?! NO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!!!"
     
     
  #2045  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 2:55 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
Ha! And hack architects everywhere rejoice. If a functionless stick on your building is the difference between drab and "unique", you don't have much of a design to begin with.
The rule change is about the shape of roofs, with or without spires.
     
     
  #2046  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:07 PM
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I think this is a positive change for LA. Get some defining characteristics in the skyline!

Spires can enhance architectural expression:
http://www.ssgillflooring.com/wp-con...erty-place.jpg

And as mdiederi said, it's about the shape of roofs in general. Having sloping roofs and decorative crowns can add to the architecture of a building as well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...phia)-wide.JPG

http://thehub.com/wp-content/uploads...re-header1.jpg

http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...tornot_evo.jpg
     
     
  #2047  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I think this is a positive change for LA. Get some defining characteristics in the skyline!

Spires can enhance architectural expression:
http://www.ssgillflooring.com/wp-con...erty-place.jpg

And as mdiederi said, it's about the shape of roofs in general. Having sloping roofs and decorative crowns can add to the architecture of a building as well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...phia)-wide.JPG

http://thehub.com/wp-content/uploads...re-header1.jpg

http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...tornot_evo.jpg
Please tell me that that's a midrise office building and not a 12 story parking structure in that photo of Cira phase 2.
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  #2048  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 4:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
Please tell me that that's a midrise office building and not a 12 story parking structure in that photo of Cira phase 2.
Nope... it's a parking structure

Good thing Evo covers it to the North, FMC will cover it to the South, the Eastern half will eventually be developed to cover it from the East, and the Western half has street level retail. So, it is not entirely lost, but really sucks as of now. It was built as parking for the IRS directly north of the Cira South development.
     
     
  #2049  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
I think this is a positive change for LA. Get some defining characteristics in the skyline!

Spires can enhance architectural expression:
http://www.ssgillflooring.com/wp-con...erty-place.jpg

And as mdiederi said, it's about the shape of roofs in general. Having sloping roofs and decorative crowns can add to the architecture of a building as well.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...phia)-wide.JPG

http://thehub.com/wp-content/uploads...re-header1.jpg

http://hiddencityphila.org/wp-conten...tornot_evo.jpg
Philly representing lol. I like those buildings.....for Philly. Im actually hopping we see more buildings on the design scale of the Wilshire Grand rather than the types you see in Philly and other east coast cities. LAs skyline will look great with spires and crowns but it has to be done the right way. The LA way. something modern/subtle like the Grand.
     
     
  #2050  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 5:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
Please tell me that that's a midrise office building and not a 12 story parking structure in that photo of Cira phase 2.
will be parking garage - they are putting a public park on the roof of the garage and 780 foot FMC tower (under construction now) will be opposite the EVO on the other side of the parking structure

see here for the renderings
http://ciracentresouth.com/
     
     
  #2051  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2014, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
Nope... it's a parking structure

Good thing Evo covers it to the North, FMC will cover it to the South, the Eastern half will eventually be developed to cover it from the East, and the Western half has street level retail. So, it is not entirely lost, but really sucks as of now. It was built as parking for the IRS directly north of the Cira South development.
Yikes...Philly is taking a page from LA's book, and not in a good way. Hopefully the view of it will be blocked, as you said. That structure looks almost the same size as 30th St Station itself.
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  #2052  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 2:01 AM
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Originally Posted by caligrad View Post
Philly representing lol. I like those buildings.....for Philly. Im actually hopping we see more buildings on the design scale of the Wilshire Grand rather than the types you see in Philly and other east coast cities. LAs skyline will look great with spires and crowns but it has to be done the right way. The LA way. something modern/subtle like the Grand.
Well, since I live in Philly, I found it easier to just pick Philly buildings lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DistrictDirt View Post
Yikes...Philly is taking a page from LA's book, and not in a good way. Hopefully the view of it will be blocked, as you said. That structure looks almost the same size as 30th St Station itself.
That's a slight exaggeration lol. It's maybe 1/4th the size of 30th Street Station.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wo...37c8b0166abe8c

To the direct north of it is where Evo has just been built. To the direct south of it is where the 730 foot FMC Tower is currently under construction and to the direct east of it, over the train tracks is slated for future development. So, it will be blocked on all ends. The western half facing 30th Street has street level retail. So not ALL is lost, but yes as it is now is extremely ugly.
     
     
  #2053  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 4:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Submariner View Post
Just be happy that a city official isn't screaming "DEVELOPMENT?!?!?! NO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!!!"

Remember people LAs dramatic skyline can be attributed to those flat roof skyscrapers. A large group of similar shaped objects can create drama too, or one building with a spire surrounded by flat roofed buildings as with San Francisco. Any building with a spire placed in the LA skyline must be of the perfect height, design and placement as a first to create drama. I think Wilshire Grand will accomplish this very well.
     
     
  #2054  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 6:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Calicool View Post
Remember people LAs dramatic skyline can be attributed to those flat roof skyscrapers. A large group of similar shaped objects can create drama too, or one building with a spire surrounded by flat roofed buildings as with San Francisco. Any building with a spire placed in the LA skyline must be of the perfect height, design and placement as a first to create drama. I think Wilshire Grand will accomplish this very well.

I completely agree! They had permission to build up to 1250ft(I think) and surpass the height of the USBT. I think they purposefully chose not to do that to avoid hijacking the skyline just to glorify their tower. They wanted something that would complement its surroundings, not take away from it. The CEO of Korean Air loves Los Angeles and I think it reflects in the beautiful execution of the final placement, design and height.
     
     
  #2055  
Old Posted Oct 8, 2014, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron38 View Post
Ha! And hack architects everywhere rejoice. If a functionless stick on your building is the difference between drab and "unique", you don't have much of a design to begin with.
I absolutely laud this ruling...but that's not quite my point here.
It completely baffles me that folks here with lengthy, substantive and articulate posting histories can be so aggressively pessimistic about a simple design element; but to each one's own amen and amen I suppose.
This not only includes spires, but fins, crowns and other adornments. IIRC, Metropolis' four towers have *beautiful* fins that will forever alter the skyline, if only for the most part because they are the first steps in burying that asinine flat rule roof once and for fecking good.
I do agree, however, that this tower's spire is somewhat anemic..But worthy of rejoicing it still is, for it represents the nail in a coffin that's needed closing for years now.
     
     
  #2056  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 5:05 AM
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Wilshire Grand; taken by me a couple hrs ago






     
     
  #2057  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 5:22 AM
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No offense but it's been bothering me how many people complain about this skyscraper "cheating" it's way to be the tallest of the west. Obviously the only way they could design a skyscraper with a crown and spire is to put the stick on the side with the helipad law at the time. If AC Martin never even attempted to add a spire to the design, there's no way LA could remove the helipad law by now. If the Empire State Building was proposed in LA, they would have to remove the spire and replace it with a helipad. The Wilshire Grand is an amazing design... and please remember the crown and the spire will stand out the most at night so they're not completely "functionless".

This building also helped and encouraged the mayor, as well as the fire department, to remove the stupid helipad law. Not only is this a beautiful skyscraper with a crown and spire, not only is this the new tallest building in the west coast, not only is this a modern skyscraper in LA's mid-century skyline, but this is the tower that will forever change architecture in Los Angeles. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why we should appreciate Wilshire Grand for what it is, not for what its not.
     
     
  #2058  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 7:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unanimity View Post
I completely agree! They had permission to build up to 1250ft(I think) and surpass the height of the USBT. I think they purposefully chose not to do that to avoid hijacking the skyline just to glorify their tower. They wanted something that would complement its surroundings, not take away from it. The CEO of Korean Air loves Los Angeles and I think it reflects in the beautiful execution of the final placement, design and height.
Nah, they had permission to build that high because the original plans included a 1,250 ft tower, but they downsized because it didn't make sense to build that much office space.
     
     
  #2059  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2014, 3:35 PM
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Looks like they jacked up the core crane a little bit.
     
     
  #2060  
Old Posted Oct 11, 2014, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kelbeen View Post
No offense but it's been bothering me how many people complain about this skyscraper "cheating" it's way to be the tallest of the west. Obviously the only way they could design a skyscraper with a crown and spire is to put the stick on the side with the helipad law at the time. If AC Martin never even attempted to add a spire to the design, there's no way LA could remove the helipad law by now. If the Empire State Building was proposed in LA, they would have to remove the spire and replace it with a helipad. The Wilshire Grand is an amazing design... and please remember the crown and the spire will stand out the most at night so they're not completely "functionless".

This building also helped and encouraged the mayor, as well as the fire department, to remove the stupid helipad law. Not only is this a beautiful skyscraper with a crown and spire, not only is this the new tallest building in the west coast, not only is this a modern skyscraper in LA's mid-century skyline, but this is the tower that will forever change architecture in Los Angeles. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why we should appreciate Wilshire Grand for what it is, not for what its not.

well said.

on other topic, how tall should we expect the core to rise by Christmas / New Years? 100 m ?
     
     
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