Transit Fantasies

[goldenboi]

Originally Posted by Aroundtheworld

^ Awesome map! If I were to nitpick, I would say there doesn't have to be so many stops between Lynn Valley and Lonsdale for that B-Line.

Thanks! Yeah that's probably the case right now. However, I made this map with the assumption that the corridors will densify. So, it might not start off with so many stops, but they could be added in the future.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

LOL every single arterial roads in Vancouver Proper should be coloured orange.

But B-Line down 200th Street? How long will it take for Maple Meadows, Willoughby, and Willowbrook to get dense enough for that??

I agree. But I wanted to be kind of realistic

That route is actually already being planned for a B-Line in the next phase. I am skeptical as well, but since it is already in TransLink's plans, I decided to include it on the map.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/futu...translink-2021

Originally Posted by officedwellar

Cool.
Another comment: The hill on Arbutus is probably too steep for a B-Line between Cornwall and 4th Ave. and between 4th and Broadway,
the RoW is very narrow, so it would have to go up Burrard to Broadway, 12th or 16th then turn onto Arbutus.

On the downtown end, the Arbutus B-Line could also take Howe, Fir St off-ramp up to Broadway, 12th or 16th then Arbutus
- depends on how much it is intended to serve lower Kits.

Yes, very true. It would have to take Burrard in Kits. In downtown, I wanted to put it down Burrard to serve the West End. Especially to provide a quick connection to the Broadway Subway for UBC Students living in the West End.

[Migrant_Coconut]

This needs to be a thing real goddamn soon.

Feedback: either give the Second Narrows B-Line traffic priority or run it down Gilmore to Brentwood instead. That stretch of Hastings is like watching paint dry - except you're the paint.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by goldenboi

With all of the opposition of the North Shore B-Line, I decided to make a fantasy map of Metro Vancouver. I think B-Lines are our best tool in public transportation at the moment, and I would like to see them all over the region.

Obviously the local routes would have to be redesigned to connect with the B-Lines better, but I have decided not to take that on at the moment. My main goal was to tie together the entire region with B-Lines.

Hope you like it, and I would love some feedback.

The way things are going I don't see a B-Line going beyond Park Royal anytime soon. It'll also be a long time before Coquitlam (which went a bit Nimby on Skytrain) needs one either.

It's a given the 130 will be turned into a B-Line but only as far south as Metrotown. Once Willingdon crosses Imperial and becomes Patterson, it becomes a 2 lane quiet residential street (and the Metrotown downtown plan ends at Imperial so zoning isn't going to change there). The 100 from 22nd Street to Marpole is more likely to become a B-Line.

Instead of ending in Ladner (and not even at the exchange) it makes more sense to drop a B-Line down to Tsawwassen exchange, which moves it closer to the ferry terminal (without having to send a ton of buses when the ferry isn't there).

The 501 B-Line is more likely to stop at Willowbrook (which it does now before continuing on to Langley Centre) - this would also save it from waiting to cross the train tracks there.

[waves]

My impressions have been that WVan council is more in favour than not, despite public outcry.

I like the map in general, but all the minor lines make it somewhat difficult to read. It would be nice to have it without all of them. I should also note I didn't look at station locations because of this.

North Vancouver Feedback: You have 4 BLines:

• East-West: Ideally it will end in Dollarton, the area is developing into a center and it is more appropriate than ever for it to finish there.
• Lions Gate: I never understood why the 240 goes to 15th rather than continuing on 13th. For a BLine it should go straight on 13th all the way to Grand Boulevard and then left all the way to Lynn Valley. Less turns = faster end to end speed. Plus it still serves the hospital with that route.
• Second Narrows to Metrotown: It should finish at CapU.
• Lonsdale - This line is not necessary. BLines are great for longer distances of travel but the problem with Lonsdale is the majority of movements are local - there are actually very few people who travel from Lynn Valley to the Quay to Downtown because the 210 runs straight downtown from Lynn Valley and is faster. At Mid-Lonsdale, the 240 also runs straight downtown and can also be faster for certain trips. Especially if the 240 is replaced by a BLine, this will make it even faster. Lonsdale absolutley deserves to be in the frequent transit network with buses every 10min or better, but I don't think it's suitable for a BLine.

[jollyburger]

[QUOTE=waves;8496136]

North Vancouver Feedback: You have 4 BLines:

• East-West: Ideally it will end in Dollarton, the area is developing into a center and it is more appropriate than ever for it to finish there.
• Lions Gate: I never understood why the 240 goes to 15th rather than continuing on 13th. For a BLine it should go straight on 13th all the way to Grand Boulevard and then left all the way to Lynn Valley. Less turns = faster end to end speed. Plus it still serves the hospital with that route.
• Second Narrows to Metrotown: It should finish at CapU.
• Lonsdale - This line is not necessary. BLines are great for longer distances of travel but the problem with Lonsdale is the majority of movements are local - there are actually very few people who travel from Lynn Valley to the Quay to Downtown because the 210 runs straight downtown from Lynn Valley and is faster. At Mid-Lonsdale, the 240 also runs straight downtown and can also be faster for certain trips. Especially if the 240 is replaced by a BLine, this will make it even faster. Lonsdale absolutley deserves to be in the frequent transit network with buses every 10min or better, but I don't think it's suitable for a BLine.

1) If there ever is that demand they can extend it but you still need to run buses out to Deep Cove and it makes sense to terminate those routes at Phibbs than some new Dollarton mini-exchange.

2) There are no delays from those turns onto 13th and 15th was always more built up (not just single family homes) which might be the reason it historically used that route.

3) They already switched the Cap College runs to a shorter route so it isn't dependent on buses getting stuck on the bridge.

4) Not all B-Lines are going to be UBC "destination" routes where almost is going all the way to the end. Even the new Marine B-Line won't see people from Phibbs headed to Park Royal vs more "localish" type commuters switching to another route. When they change the fare pricing and introduce more frequent crossings I think it will make a significant change to commuter patterns.

[Migrant_Coconut]

3) And there's not much room for artics at either loop anyway. What Cap really needs long-term is a short express line between it and Phibbs, upgradeable to a gondola.

[waves]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

1) If there ever is that demand they can extend it but you still need to run buses out to Deep Cove and it makes sense to terminate those routes at Phibbs than some new Dollarton mini-exchange.

2) There are no delays from those turns onto 13th and 15th was always more built up (not just single family homes) which might be the reason it historically used that route.

3) They already switched the Cap College runs to a shorter route so it isn't dependent on buses getting stuck on the bridge.

4) Not all B-Lines are going to be UBC "destination" routes where almost is going all the way to the end. Even the new Marine B-Line won't see people from Phibbs headed to Park Royal vs more "localish" type commuters switching to another route. When they change the fare pricing and introduce more frequent crossings I think it will make a significant change to commuter patterns.

1) I don't disagree with you, however, just because the BLine ends at Dollarton doesn't mean that the others have to. It makes more sense for the local buses to end at Phibbs. Extending the BLine to Dollarton adds at most 1min but provides a lot of value with all the businesses and new developments over there. The new Phibbs is being designed with the new BLine stop in a bus bay on the north side of Main St (so that it doesn't even have to enter the exchange, it arrives and leaves).

2) Every turn has a delay, it's not a large one, but there is a delay. Not to mention the added stop signs and such. 5min could be cut from the route from continuing on 13th.

3) BLine probably won't go without ahead without priority entrance on to the highway somehow from Hastings. With transit priority, the buses shouldn't get stuck by the bridge any more. Plus 5-10min frequency should reduce the consequences from buses getting pushed back behind schedule.

4) The Marine B-Line absolutely is a "destination" route. Namely, Dundarave, Ambleside, Park Royal, Capilano Mall, Quay, Brooksbank, Phibbs and Dollarton. All of these are major destinations that benefit from express service. The Lonsdale route does not have this characteristic.

[waves]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

3) And there's not much room for artics at either loop anyway. What Cap really needs long-term is a short express line between it and Phibbs, upgradeable to a gondola.

Absolutely support a Gondola!

[fredinno]

Late again. Always the last one.

Originally Posted by goldenboi

With all of the opposition of the North Shore B-Line, I decided to make a fantasy map of Metro Vancouver. I think B-Lines are our best tool in public transportation at the moment, and I would like to see them all over the region.

Obviously the local routes would have to be redesigned to connect with the B-Lines better, but I have decided not to take that on at the moment. My main goal was to tie together the entire region with B-Lines.

Hope you like it, and I would love some feedback.

Well, B-lines certainly get a lot less attention in these forums than the flashy Skytrain... TBF, they're mostly 'better buses' but a hella lot cheaper ($8.7M for the Scott Rd. B-Line, with most of the costs being in the $4.4M/year operating cost on that line), so being 'ambitious' probably isn't a huge deal in this case. Though, on the flip side, being a 'better bus' means 5min savings on a 25min journey from Granville St. Station to Ambleside.


Considering this, one would wonder why our B-line system isn't more ambitious. Regardless.

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/Doc...ne.pdf#page=38

It kind of irks me, on a side note, though, how the Lonsdale terminal and UBC terminal aren't accurate to the actual plans, but

Though, I have to wonder, why 8th st in Uptown New West rather than 6th St? I guess maybe the turn, but 8th St is just a lot more central in general to uptown New West.

I also don't get the Lander B-line going to Broadmoor. Most of the buses go on Hwy 99 for a reason (to go fast and far- I don't think Broadmoor is so much a draw to justify the detour), and the planned Steveston interchange did not include a true HOV interchange. The plan was for a glorified bus stop in the centre of the interchange, which attracted criticism. Probably possible to include it- at the cost of more ALR land.

On the other hand, Sea Island Way, where the existing bus lanes stop, is a nightmare to navigate. Ideally, the B-line would be paired with a connection between Alderbridge Way and Dunsmuir Bridge, to relieve pressure on that nightmare of a road.

Not sure why people here consider the 200 St B-line to be a bad idea..

Originally Posted by waves

My impressions have been that WVan council is more in favour than not, despite public outcry.

I like the map in general, but all the minor lines make it somewhat difficult to read. It would be nice to have it without all of them. I should also note I didn't look at station locations because of this.

North Vancouver Feedback: You have 4 BLines:

• East-West: Ideally it will end in Dollarton, the area is developing into a center and it is more appropriate than ever for it to finish there.
• Lions Gate: I never understood why the 240 goes to 15th rather than continuing on 13th. For a BLine it should go straight on 13th all the way to Grand Boulevard and then left all the way to Lynn Valley. Less turns = faster end to end speed. Plus it still serves the hospital with that route.
• Second Narrows to Metrotown: It should finish at CapU.
• Lonsdale - This line is not necessary. BLines are great for longer distances of travel but the problem with Lonsdale is the majority of movements are local - there are actually very few people who travel from Lynn Valley to the Quay to Downtown because the 210 runs straight downtown from Lynn Valley and is faster. At Mid-Lonsdale, the 240 also runs straight downtown and can also be faster for certain trips. Especially if the 240 is replaced by a BLine, this will make it even faster. Lonsdale absolutley deserves to be in the frequent transit network with buses every 10min or better, but I don't think it's suitable for a BLine.

There's just one problem; Translink already designated the Lynn Valley B-line Jollyburger drew as their preferred corridor, and Lynn Valley is a designated Town Centre anyhow. Dollarton is kind of limited in some ways, being still a critical industrial area and shared with the Squamish First Nations, limiting its size and connectivity with its two lobes.

Lynn Valley is hampered by lack of accessibility, hence, the B-Line.

Also, connecting at Lonsdale future-proofs the line for a Skytrain 3rd crossing.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/futu...translink-2021

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

3) And there's not much room for artics at either loop anyway. What Cap really needs long-term is a short express line between it and Phibbs, upgradeable to a gondola.

Wasn't there the upgrades at Phibbs for the Marine Drive B-line?

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

$5-6B is indeed a dealbreaker. Thought I'd like to observe that much of the western part of the route is rural or suburban, so (theoretically) we could go beside the highway instead of on it.

The problem with the SoF track is that it was built exclusively for freight, and so it avoids populated areas. It's not impossible for passenger rail to use it, but having many of the "downtowns" so far away is less than optimal.

Panorama Ridge is not a 'Downtown'. The CP track has a existing spur that goes a bit closer into Cloverdale, though it's headed in only one direction. Though- there is a partial ROW down to the SRY track, and beyond that, it's ALR land.

It goes through Langley Centre already, that's not a problem.

Hence a non-heavy rail. One light/medium-sized train every ten minutes should do the trick.

I'd like to point out this is the study I'm referring to, which assumes diesel LRT on the SRY corridor. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AphyHYpEjmp-gppfX1FXQe7_SB5OOQ
It only does slightly better than the WCE analogue, possibly due to not being a peak-hour service.

That B-Line should go ahead, but LBH, North Delta's really just West Newton.

True. Dunderave and Phibbs might, though; maybe even Maplewood. Likewise, Ladner might have RT, Tsawassen definitely won't.



Is Bridgeport-Steveston really long-distance though? It's a creative solution, just doesn't seem worth it.

Waterfront (and the Inlet in general) is kinda maxed out. And I believe there's been other reasons listed for why there's nothing but waste treatment in Iona... for one, the Canada Line dead-ends at YVR.

Yeah, I don't think we're going to ever convince each other over Ladner.

Dunno, is 8.7km 'long distance' to you?

I was thinking more the constantly failing passenger ferry services on the outer sides of the Seabus terminal...

Add another spur? But yeah, I know that anything with the word 'fast' and 'ferry' is still a dead deal for at least the next decade. Though, note that Tsawwassen is effectively the same thing for Victoria.

[waves]

Originally Posted by fredinno

There's just one problem; Translink already designated the Lynn Valley B-line Jollyburger drew as their preferred corridor, and Lynn Valley is a designated Town Centre anyhow. Dollarton is kind of limited in some ways, being still a critical industrial area and shared with the Squamish First Nations, limiting its size and connectivity with its two lobes.

Lynn Valley is hampered by lack of accessibility, hence, the B-Line.

Also, connecting at Lonsdale future-proofs the line for a Skytrain 3rd crossing.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/futu...translink-2021

Wasn't there the upgrades at Phibbs for the Marine Drive B-line?

Translink specified Lonsdale to Lynn Valley as a route that needed frequent transit. A B-Line is a form a frequent transit but frequent transit is not always a B-Line.

Also, Lynn Valley really isn't that hampered in terms of accessibility. 228, 229, 255, 210, 227 and even the N24 all run through Lynn Valley at 30min or better frequency all day. There a lot of scheduling and route alignment problems though:
> 229 SB turns right on to Lynn Valley road, then left onto 29th rather than continuing straight onto Fromme. Also leaves 3min to late in the afternoon to catch the Seabus.
> 255 is usually good and consistent
> 228 does lots of turns around grand boulevard and 15th that are really unnecessary
> 240 doesn't finish in Lynn Valley forcing Lynn Valley CapMall or Park Royal connections to transfer to the 255 or 228.
> Some 210s don't go all the way to Vancouver, and have no connections to Vancouver even at Phibbs until the next 210.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Wasn't there the upgrades at Phibbs for the Marine Drive B-line?

They're under construction right now. Cap OTOH is designed only for non-artics at either loop (one's a roundabout, no less); unless the B-Line uses said non-artics, they're going to have a real hard time with the turns.

Originally Posted by fredinno

It goes through Langley Centre already, that's not a problem.

But it'd be a long walk into Sullivan or Cloverdale. Or a 10-15 minute bus ride into Ladner. On-road is potentially expensive and has to deal with traffic, but it's much better for TOD.

Originally Posted by fredinno

I'd like to point out this is the study I'm referring to, which assumes diesel LRT on the SRY corridor. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AphyHYpEjmp-gppfX1FXQe7_SB5OOQ
It only does slightly better than the WCE analogue, possibly due to not being a peak-hour service.

Well the WCE does fine - the problem is the lack of frequency.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Yeah, I don't think we're going to ever convince each other over Ladner.

Dunno, is 8.7km 'long distance' to you?

I was thinking more the constantly failing passenger ferry services on the outer sides of the Seabus terminal...

Add another spur? But yeah, I know that anything with the word 'fast' and 'ferry' is still a dead deal for at least the next decade. Though, note that Tsawwassen is effectively the same thing for Victoria.

Probably not, no.

Not really - that's roughly Waterfront to Langara, and that's about fourteen minutes.

Then YVR/Iona service becomes 24 minutes in the evening - have a heart, man!

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Though, I have to wonder, why 8th st in Uptown New West rather than 6th St? I guess maybe the turn, but 8th St is just a lot more central in general to uptown New West.

8th Street is wider than 6th Street, it feeds directly into Canada Way, and New West has plans to turn 6th Street into a "Great Street" that might conflict with having a B-Line.

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by waves

Translink specified Lonsdale to Lynn Valley as a route that needed frequent transit. A B-Line is a form a frequent transit but frequent transit is not always a B-Line.

Also, Lynn Valley really isn't that hampered in terms of accessibility. 228, 229, 255, 210, 227 and even the N24 all run through Lynn Valley at 30min or better frequency all day. There a lot of scheduling and route alignment problems though:
> 229 SB turns right on to Lynn Valley road, then left onto 29th rather than continuing straight onto Fromme. Also leaves 3min to late in the afternoon to catch the Seabus.
> 255 is usually good and consistent
> 228 does lots of turns around grand boulevard and 15th that are really unnecessary
> 240 doesn't finish in Lynn Valley forcing Lynn Valley CapMall or Park Royal connections to transfer to the 255 or 228.
> Some 210s don't go all the way to Vancouver, and have no connections to Vancouver even at Phibbs until the next 210.

The article clearly states B-lines, but that they could be upgrades to the existing service in practice, like the 9->99 to an extent.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

But it'd be a long walk into Sullivan or Cloverdale. Or a 10-15 minute bus ride into Ladner. On-road is potentially expensive and has to deal with traffic, but it's much better for TOD.

Here is the ROW though Cloverdale, Orange being new tracks, and Red existing spurs.

I ignored Sullivan, as it's not a town Centre- Lander may be possible by following Lander Trunk Rd and 17A, due to the wide ROW (on 17A especially) Lander Trunk would have to be moved slightly to the north, and the bike lanes may be moved to 48a Ave to fit it in. Or just ignore Lander Trunk, and go on only the 17A corridor, which also works too, and is probably overbuilt due to the SFPR.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Not really - that's roughly Waterfront to Langara, and that's about fourteen minutes.

Then YVR/Iona service becomes 24 minutes in the evening - have a heart, man!

Waterfront to Langara is over a km short.
It's more like Marine Dr. Station to Waterfront, which is across the width of the COV.

Hey, I'm assuming frequency schedules would be changed to compensate.

[waves]

Originally Posted by fredinno

The article clearly states B-lines, but that they could be upgrades to the existing service in practice, like the 9->99 to an extent.

Note that the North Shore Area Transit Plan specified "rapid transit" and not a BLine. Also note the new 240 alignment below. There is no logic in putting a BLine from Downtown to the Quay to Lynn Valley because no one will travel past the Quay! It is physically impossible for a bus to go from the Quay to Downtown faster than the seabus. Also, anyone in the densified core of 14th and Lonsdale or in Lynn Valley will take the 240 rather than detour 10min to the Quay.

If a new BLine goes in, replacing the 240 with a BLine is the most logical.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Here is the ROW though Cloverdale, Orange being new tracks, and Red existing spurs.

I ignored Sullivan, as it's not a town Centre- Lander may be possible by following Lander Trunk Rd and 17A, due to the wide ROW (on 17A especially) Lander Trunk would have to be moved slightly to the north, and the bike lanes may be moved to 48a Ave to fit it in. Or just ignore Lander Trunk, and go on only the 17A corridor, which also works too, and is probably overbuilt due to the SFPR.

That detour could work, if planners are willing to forgo TOD.

Lemme try to explain again. The problem with ignoring West Newton and Sullivan is that they're eventually going to turn into 'plexes and townhomes. Ideally, you want the train (relatively) acessible so you can integrate transit with development and reduce car usage.

Originally Posted by fredinno

Waterfront to Langara is over a km short.
It's more like Marine Dr. Station to Waterfront, which is across the width of the COV.

Hey, I'm assuming frequency schedules would be changed to compensate.

Sixteen minutes then, not fourteen. If it was going somewhere really far like Langley or Coq I'd say go for it, but Steveston? Stay on the Canada and ride it there.

With two minutes max, that's eight peak and sixteen off-peak. Sure, ridership for the airport is scattered, but that's going to change over the next few decades - especially with 4-6 trains an hour!

[fredinno]

Originally Posted by waves

Note that the North Shore Area Transit Plan specified "rapid transit" and not a BLine. Also note the new 240 alignment below. There is no logic in putting a BLine from Downtown to the Quay to Lynn Valley because no one will travel past the Quay! It is physically impossible for a bus to go from the Quay to Downtown faster than the seabus. Also, anyone in the densified core of 14th and Lonsdale or in Lynn Valley will take the 240 rather than detour 10min to the Quay.

If a new BLine goes in, replacing the 240 with a BLine is the most logical.

What other 'Rapid transit' other than a B-line (or express bus, which in the streets of North Van, would act like a B-line anyways.)

The line over the Lions Gate might be for West Van- Downtown commuters, and the expectation is that Lynn Valley commuters get off at Lonsdale.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That detour could work, if planners are willing to forgo TOD.

Lemme try to explain again. The problem with ignoring West Newton and Sullivan is that they're eventually going to turn into 'plexes and townhomes. Ideally, you want the train (relatively) acessible so you can integrate transit with development and reduce car usage.

Commuter Rail is not intended for what you're looking for, which would be more B-lines/Skytrain.

Note that the Evergreen extension or the Coquitlam-Maple Ridge B-line does not invalidate the WCE, as the WCE is designed for long-distance transfers.

My point is that commuter Rail in South Delta makes more sense because it's effectively a disconnected 'island', and everyone has to travel long distances to get anywhere they want. This should thus be the first priority over tram/Skytrain to connect to South Delta. Trams have to be electrified, in general cost more per km, and cannot integrate with freight rail in cases of low demand.

Panorama Ridge/Sullivan and Cloverdale can have their Skytrain once the demand justifies it. It's not like there's a shortage of potential TOD area on the KGH/104th/Fraser corridors.

Sixteen minutes then, not fourteen. If it was going somewhere really far like Langley or Coq I'd say go for it, but Steveston? Stay on the Canada and ride it there.

With two minutes max, that's eight peak and sixteen off-peak. Sure, ridership for the airport is scattered, but that's going to change over the next few decades - especially with 4-6 trains an hour!

If it was integrated with a wider commuter Rail system, like Lander-Richmond-New West, would it be worth it?

Ok, I get your point though. I'll probably leave it as a future 'reserved corridor', at least.

I know that's a problem- short-term it's not a big deal, long-term, the Canada Line should have a parallel built (2060s-2070s range) in order to compensate for the shortcomings the line was built with, which the Canada can hand over the Canada's spur to.

[Dengler Avenue]

“and the expectation is that Lynn Valley commuters get off at Lonsdale.”

I thought they come down by 210.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by fredinno

Commuter Rail is not intended for what you're looking for, which would be more B-lines/Skytrain.

Note that the Evergreen extension or the Coquitlam-Maple Ridge B-line does not invalidate the WCE, as the WCE is designed for long-distance transfers.

My point is that commuter Rail in South Delta makes more sense because it's effectively a disconnected 'island', and everyone has to travel long distances to get anywhere they want. This should thus be the first priority over tram/Skytrain to connect to South Delta. Trams have to be electrified, in general cost more per km, and cannot integrate with freight rail in cases of low demand.

Panorama Ridge/Sullivan and Cloverdale can have their Skytrain once the demand justifies it. It's not like there's a shortage of potential TOD area on the KGH/104th/Fraser corridors.

That's basically what a tram is: a B-Line on rails.

We're definitely not going to have both light and heavy rail on this corridor. True on electrification costs, but the ROW is defunct anyway - CP has hauling rights, that's it.

Problem is that we're an Asian-sized city with a European population. Unlike KGB/104th or Fraser, West Newton-Cloverdale isn't going to need SkyTrain until 2100, and they'll all be driving in the meantime. Build a tram though, and they're covered for the next 50+ years.

Originally Posted by fredinno

If it was integrated with a wider commuter Rail system, like Lander-Richmond-New West, would it be worth it?

Ok, I get your point though. I'll probably leave it as a future 'reserved corridor', at least.

I know that's a problem- short-term it's not a big deal, long-term, the Canada Line should have a parallel built (2060s-2070s range) in order to compensate for the shortcomings the line was built with, which the Canada can hand over the Canada's spur to.

Doubtful. Unless there's a commuter rail network somewhere that has a branch with just two stations? Not every freight line makes for a good passenger line.

Hopefully, yes... though I've yet to hear from a credible source (and not a Letter to the Editor) why Iona could become a ferry terminal.

[waves]

Originally Posted by fredinno

What other 'Rapid transit' other than a B-line (or express bus, which in the streets of North Van, would act like a B-line anyways.)

The line over the Lions Gate might be for West Van- Downtown commuters, and the expectation is that Lynn Valley commuters get off at Lonsdale.

Rapid Bus Transit is defined in the NSATP as anything that might have one or some of the following: "Dedicated right of way, separate lane or mixed with traffic, limited stop or transit priority measures. Service frequency 2 – 15 minutes."

Run the 229/230 at 15 min frequencies staggered 7.5min apart. You could run the 229 with limited stops through CNV to provide a faster option for getting to the Quay versus 230 local service. Alternatively, you keep the 230/229 at current 15-30min frequencies, cut stops in the CNV so that they stop at 23rd/15th/13th/3rd/Quay only, and implement a new 10min local service bus from the Quay to 23rd.

Both these options would improve Lonsdale to a Rapid Bus Network but neither are a B-Line.

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

“and the expectation is that Lynn Valley commuters get off at Lonsdale.”

I thought they come down by 210.

They do. Seabus trips are mostly fed by 228/229/230 (see image below). Upper Lynn, West Lynn & Lower Lynn to Vancouver is served by 210. 14th-16th street through CNV to Vancouver/Cap Mall/Park Royal is served by 240. Upper Lonsdale/Lynn Valley to Cap Mall/Park Royal is served by 229/230 to 240/255 or 228 to 240/255.