Transit Fantasies

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by nname

From SeaBus to Queensbury, 228 can cover.
From Brooksbank to Phibbs, 232 can cover.

From Queensbury to Brooksbank, there is only 1 stop lost, which is about 200m from the nearest B-Line stop.

Okay so no big deal

[Dengler Avenue]

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019TRAN0062-000774

With the HOV lanes extended to 264th Street (Highway 13), it’s actually possible to talk about extending select trips of 555 to Aldergrove. Here’s my proposal for frequencies:

Weekdays (excluding holidays):

555 LOUGHEED STN (from Aldergrove):
20 minutes from 5:30 to 8:30 am
60 minutes from 8:30 am to 2:30 pm
30 minutes from 2:30 to 7 pm
60 minutes for the rest of the day

555 ALDERGROVE:
30 minutes during AM rush
60 minutes midday and evenings
20 minutes during PM rush

Weekends and Holidays:
Every 60 minutes

Thoughts?

I don’t know what to do with the FVX yet.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019TRAN0062-000774

With the HOV lanes extended to 264th Street (Highway 13), it’s actually possible to talk about extending select trips of 555 to Aldergrove.

I feel like that actually depends on whether they complete the east-facing HOV ramps to 202 Street, which I honestly can't tell if they will EDIT: My bad, seems like it was already part of the 216th project.

Couple that with the proposed 503 changes and the impending SkyTrain to Langley (which also has an expected 2025 date) and IDK how such an extension would work out. You might as well improve 503 service connecting to the Langley Centre SkyTrain terminus. FVX improvements (and a new branch connecting to SkyTrain @ Langley Centre) would be great though!

[Express691]

Can we get away with abandoning/reorganizing service at Columbia Station and upgrading New West a second time

Either abandon the station outright or have either PW or KG bound trains bypass the station.

They can build a pedestrian underpass directly over 8th street as well as do some more widening of the already-narrow platforms.

New west is already a central hub for bus services and retail. Some argue that it is safer to transfer there instead of at Columbia.

There will be a point in which Columbia will need capacity upgrades. However if NW should be closed for whatever reason, I guess they can opt to use Columbia.

[Metro-One]

So this was my suggestion for the 2050 transit plan.

A new Skytrain (subway) line from Arbutus / Broadway (hub connection to Millennium Line and Arbutus LRT) that extends north to the West End, then to Waterfront, then east along Hastings where it branches at Commercial (or somewhere else) with the northern branch heading to North Vancouver (could be combined with a new road bridge) and the other continuing east along Hastings. This could potentially loop back south to Brentwood and Metrotown (this part could be a second phase).

TrainLine2 by Ian, on Flickr

[Anorak]

I already posted this in the Transit discussion board, but I think it pertains here too. Translink is developing their long term plan, and there is a discussion board where you can post your suggestions for future projects. A lot of the ideas from here could be posted there. Here's the link.

[Metro-One]

Oh don’t worry, I posted this there as well.

Any project that involves Skytrain to the North Shore should not be an extension of an existing line, but instead part of a larger new line as I have drawn above that provides more coverage downtown, as well as Hastings, and more connections to existing lines (such as at Waterfront and at the potential Arbutus / Broadway hub).

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So this was my suggestion for the 2050 transit plan.

A new Skytrain (subway) line from Arbutus / Broadway (hub connection to Millennium Line and Arbutus LRT) that extends north to the West End, then to Waterfront, then east along Hastings where it branches at Commercial (or somewhere else) with the northern branch heading to North Vancouver (could be combined with a new road bridge) and the other continuing east along Hastings. This could potentially loop back south to Brentwood and Metrotown (this part could be a second phase).

The problem I have is with the water crossings. No matter if it's a bridge or a tunnel, the longer the span is = the more it's going to cost (and the less likely that it'll be built). A minor tweak of the route would shorten the crossing between Kits and English Bay. The only places for short crossings to the North Shore ... well that's where existing bridges are. That's where we should be trying to add a Skytrain (and replace the existing bridges). Realistically the much dreamed about third crossing is the Seabus.

[Metro-One]

Oh yeah, it’s not a set in stone alignment. The False Creek crossing could be pushed a little east (even allowing another station to be added on the north shore of False Creek), but it would be a subway anyways downtown so I am not sure how much that would actually save.

AS for North Van / West Van, the link could also be pushed a little further east, but all the way to the Iron Workers’ Memorial Bridge seems a little too far east IMO.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So this was my suggestion for the 2050 transit plan.

A new Skytrain (subway) line from Arbutus / Broadway (hub connection to Millennium Line and Arbutus LRT) that extends north to the West End, then to Waterfront, then east along Hastings where it branches at Commercial (or somewhere else) with the northern branch heading to North Vancouver (could be combined with a new road bridge) and the other continuing east along Hastings. This could potentially loop back south to Brentwood and Metrotown (this part could be a second phase).

TrainLine2 by Ian, on Flickr

I really like it. Say no more.
But what I would like to know is..... bored tunnel most of the way? (obviously under tha Bay) but also east on Hastings? No Elevated guideways I hope, not in the city, please.
You were not specific on this, if you'll permit me.

But rasising it elevated at level with a large bridge might do ok.
I think it's too expensive to tunnel there.

[SpongeG]

I liked the elevated trains in Tokyo. It wouldn't be so bad along there.






pics by me

But they do really use the areas underneath really well.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I really like it. Say no more.
But what I would like to know is..... bored tunnel most of the way? (obviously under tha Bay) but also east on Hastings? No Elevated guideways I hope, not in the city, please.
You were not specific on this, if you'll permit me.

But rasising it elevated at level with a large bridge might do ok.
I think it's too expensive to tunnel there.

My thinking was bored tunnel (Subway) until the bridge and then elevated north (of course) and east from there.

Seems like some people are finally coming around about how I feel towards elevated structures and how they CAN be incorporated well into urban areas if given the chance

I will further refine this idea of mine and even make options. It really is what should be built after Broadway Subway IMO (along with maybe the PoCo extension).

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

I liked the elevated trains in Tokyo. It wouldn't be so bad along there.



pics by me

But they do really use the areas underneath really well.

I so wish we would at least start doing something near the stations. Along the Expo Line (the one I know best) the upgrades at New West Station are a great addition. I'm not sure about the current status of Surrey Central Station - it had some small shops under the station. Other than that there's next to nothing.

[logan5]

It would be nice to see bus lanes built along the Arbutus Corridor. It would be a super cost effective way to provide real rapid transit. Pure fantasy though.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

My thinking was bored tunnel (Subway) until the bridge and then elevated north (of course) and east from there.

Seems like some people are finally coming around about how I feel towards elevated structures and how they CAN be incorporated well into urban areas if given the chance

I will further refine this idea of mine and even make options. It really is what should be built after Broadway Subway IMO (along with maybe the PoCo extension).

Thank you for you answer.
I think it should be, as you say, underground until the (new, wide capacious) bridge, and then the rrt elevated, but bored under hills as on East Hastings at Nanaimo. Perhaps?

Big concrrete elevted guideways are ugly IMHO, but this can be mitigated by going underground or at-grade in places.

[jbrizzy]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

So this was my suggestion for the 2050 transit plan.

A new Skytrain (subway) line from Arbutus / Broadway (hub connection to Millennium Line and Arbutus LRT) that extends north to the West End, then to Waterfront, then east along Hastings where it branches at Commercial (or somewhere else) with the northern branch heading to North Vancouver (could be combined with a new road bridge) and the other continuing east along Hastings. This could potentially loop back south to Brentwood and Metrotown (this part could be a second phase).

TrainLine2 by Ian, on Flickr

My proposal was somewhat similar... I agree that a connection from the Hastings line southwest through downtown to meet the Millennium Line would be important to shorten trips from the west side, reduce overcrowding on the Canada Line, and add resiliency to the system.





Full text I posted on Transport 2050:

Recent studies have made clear that Translink is interested in the possibility of connecting the North Shore to the Skytrain network. While a direct link between Waterfront Station and Lonsdale would be quick, due to the width and depth of Burrard Inlet at that point, it would likely prove to be cost prohibitive, not to mention a massive engineering challenge.

This proposal avoids that issue by placing a crossing at the Second Narrows, while simultaneously replacing two B-Lines (one current, the 95 B-Line, and one future, the Marine-Main B-Line) which have shown to be precursors to rail rapid transit.

Due to the number of busses travelling eastward out of downtown along Hastings, as well as ongoing redevelopments and popular destinations like the PNE, Hastings St is a popular candidate for the next Skytrain route after the completion of the UBC and Langley Skytrain extensions. Travelling East of Waterfront Station, this proposal places stations in Gastown (in the vicinity of Carrall St), in Strathcona (in the vicinity of Heatley St), and at Commercial Dr, Nanaimo St, Renfrew St, and Kootenay Loop.

East of Kootenay Station, a spur would be built to accommodate a branch travelling further down Hastings to Willingdon Ave, before turning south and heading past Brentwood and BCIT to Metrotown. Additional stations would be located at Moscrop St and Kingsway in Metrotown. This would be important for the network, as it would prevent those travelling from the North Shore to Burnaby, the Tri-Cities, and South of Fraser communities from having to travel in and out of downtown as part of their trip. Though, as expanding the SkyTrain network to new regions is the priority here, this branch would likely come later.

Following Kootenay Station, the line would turn north, travelling underneath Burnaby Heights before crossing the Second Narrows on a new rail bridge. It would then travel westward above-ground, with stations at Phibbs Exchange, Brooksbank Ave, St David's Ave, Lonsdale Quay (underground, with a connection to SeaBus), Fell Ave, Pemberton Ave, Capilano Rd, Park Royal, and potentially Ambleside (also likely underground).

While a direct route between Waterfront Station and Lonsdale Quay may take as little as 4 minutes, travel on this route between the two aforementioned Stations would take about 20 minutes, about the same distance from Waterfront to Metrotown. With three-minute frequencies, a trip including wait time would take anywhere around 20-23 minutes, whereas a current SeaBus trip can take between 12-27 minutes (soon to be 22 during peak hours). Those travelling directly between Waterfront and Lonsdale Quay may still find it faster to take the SeaBus, but those travelling to or from elsewhere would have a faster option for crossing Burrard Inlet to their destination. Not to mention, both east-west travel on the North Shore, and east-west travel along Hastings St would be greatly improved.

HOWEVER, this proposal does not end there, and has another piece that further strengthens the SkyTrain network. I'm sure many of us have considered the effects the Broadway Extension will have on the Canada Line between Broadway and downtown. To relieve pressure on this point, and to shorten the journey for those travelling from UBC and the West Side to downtown, this route is envisioned to extend from Waterfront to the future Arbutus Station at Broadway and Arbutus. This routing is why I envisioned the platforms at Waterfront to be located under Cordova St (or alternatively Hastings St), as opposed to being located in the rail yards alongside the Expo Line platforms. The platforms would have to be rather deep so as to pass underneath the Canada Line, before turning to head down Burrard St.

Stations along Burrard would be located at Georgia St (with a connection to Burrard Station) and Davie St. The line would then head underneath False Creek, potentially having a station underneath Granville Island, before heading along W 4th Ave, with a station at Burrard St, and then turning down Arbutus, to terminate at Arbutus Station of the Millennium Line.

This extension would give downtown three connections (one southeast, one south, and one southwest) to the Millennium Line, shorten the trip from those heading from UBC and the West Side to downtown, and relieve pressure on the busiest part of the Canada Line. With the other end of the line heading down Hastings, trains would now head out of downtown Vancouver in four directions!

[trofirhen]

Difficult choice between Metro's plan, and Mr. jbrizzy's.
Both are great IMO.

Metro, you emphasized putting into the West End and Englaish Bay then Stanley Park at the limit. I think this is a very good idea, because there are a lot of people living in those areas
as well as tourist and commuter traffic, and I somehow think ridership might be even higher.

Mr jbrizzy, your plan is great, too IMHO. It parallels Burrard directly to downtown. Would you consider a jog into the West End, such as Metro made, or is that to you unnecessary?

Also, how is yours grade-separated? In bored tunnels? Overhead guideways? I think aesthetics play a huge role in a city's soul.

Thank you // This is all meant politely.

[jbrizzy]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Difficult choice between Metro's plan, and Mr. jbrizzy's.
Both are great IMO.

Metro, you emphasized putting into the West End and Englaish Bay then Stanley Park at the limit. I think this is a very good idea, because there are a lot of people living in those areas
as well as tourist and commuter traffic, and I somehow think ridership might be even higher.

Mr jbrizzy, your plan is great, too IMHO. It parallels Burrard directly to downtown. Would you consider a jog into the West End, such as Metro made, or is that to you unnecessary?

Also, how is yours grade-separated? In bored tunnels? Overhead guideways? I think aesthetics play a huge role in a city's soul.

Thank you // This is all meant politely.

I definitely see the benefits of having rapid transit access near Coal Harbour and English Bay.

However, I think having a station at Burrard and Davie would be important to serve an area that is seeing increased development, including the redeveloped St Paul's site, Burrard Gateway, the towers near Nelson Park, and more towers right at this intersection.

A station at this intersection, though not at English Bay, would be a great jumping-off point for people taking the 6 towards English Bay or the far reaches of the West End, and shorten the existing travel time from the centre of downtown substantially.

As for Coal Harbour, I imagine it will be served by the downtown streetcar by the time a route like this is constructed.

And while Metro's route does more directly serve the tourist areas of English Bay and Kits Point, my route has the potential for a stop underneath Granville Island. I also believe a stop on West 4th is important to connect with buses travelling on that street, and to serve the shopping area there.

As for grade-separation, I would have to imagine this would be in a bored tunnel, for this downtown section at least.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

I definitely see the benefits of having rapid transit access near Coal Harbour and English Bay.

However, I think having a station at Burrard and Davie would be important to serve an area that is seeing increased development, including the redeveloped St Paul's site, Burrard Gateway, the towers near Nelson Park, and more towers right at this intersection.

A station at this intersection, though not at English Bay, would be a great jumping-off point for people taking the 6 towards English Bay or the far reaches of the West End, and shorten the existing travel time from the centre of downtown substantially.

As for Coal Harbour, I imagine it will be served by the downtown streetcar by the time a route like this is constructed.

And while Metro's route does more directly serve the tourist areas of English Bay and Kits Point, my route has the potential for a stop underneath Granville Island. I also believe a stop on West 4th is important to connect with buses travelling on that street, and to serve the shopping area there.

As for grade-separation, I would have to imagine this would be in a bored tunnel, for this downtown section at least.

Thank you for the explanation
The strong points IMO in your plan are the Granville Island station option, and the direct route up Burrard (it is a very major street) and the direct routing to the east. Also, going down Willindon linking key points up to Metrotown is smart IMO.


However, permit me, this is not a criticism of your plan, but Metro's link-up the the subway at Arbutus and Broadway is a real plus.
The traffic interchange there will 'dynamize' the rrt system, encouraging gever more users (thus pax).
Where do you imagine your line's western terminus? West 4th?

[Metro-One]

On my proposal a station could be added at Thurlow on the North side of False Creek before swinging west towards English Bay to address some of jbrizzy’s concerns, but I really feel that the west end needs true mass transit, especially given that it is often touted as one of the most dense neighborhoods in NA. Not to mention access to Stanley Park.

It is interesting how similar our proposals are. In general they are within the same line of thought.

Also I feel that Granville Island can be serviced well enough by the Vancouver Streetcar and potential access from Granville Street Bridge.

I also feel that having the North Shore crossing further west is far more beneficial for the majority of those on the North Shore.

Crossing at the Iron Workers’ Memorial is far too much backtracking to access downtown and Richmond while accessing Burnaby and east is no difference either way (save for those going from Lynn Valley area to Burnaby).