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  #13101  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:44 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
We should always consider both. That's what lifecycle environmental calculations do. It's especially relevant when it's an infrastructure that's got a limited lifetime (it's for a non-renewable resource).




That's what I'm saying - both of these are points in favor of BC's NG financially, yet it apparently still doesn't make sense for Petronas, so I would assume there are significant drawbacks, such as BC's NG being more difficult to obtain (i.e. dirtier/pricier).

If BC's NG was truly greener (Hackslash's original statement that I'm doubting) then I find it hard to believe it's not competitive price-wise.

I mean, the greenest NG is: 1) easy to harvest, 2) found near populated areas, 3) close to shipping terminals, and 4) the shipping terminals are close to the end users. For all of these factors, "greenest" and "cheapest" are pretty well aligned.

That's why I tend to suppose at first sight that if a certain supply is deemed too pricey from a strictly capitalistic POV, then it's probably also less enviro-friendly. That works for the oil sands, Canadian lumber, Canadian minerals, etc. as a rule of thumb.

I have nothing against BC's NG, and if it's actually the greenest-and-cheapest option on all counts yet single-handedly turned from "cheapest" to "unaffordable" by unreasonably heavy regulatory burdens, we're a bit dumb.






Because it's already built. Same reason why driving my existing car is universally acknowledged to be greener than buying a brand new, somewhat less polluting one.




That's a perfectly valid criticism against EVs. Especially for people who don't use them (say, a rich Hollywood star who wants one in the driveway because it's fashionable).




Hackslash's original claim was that BC's NG was the greenest option for Asia.

I simply pointed out that at first sight I was skeptical since "green" and "cheap" are usually pretty well aligned for such operations, and the #1 reason Petronas wants to leave that NG in the ground is that it's too pricey to harvest.

I didn't change my stance at all, and I'm not sure you have yet entirely proven me wrong. I do appreciate that Prince Rupert is the cheapest/greenest shipping terminal to Asia, but it seems that despite that edge there, overall the exploitation of BC's NG is not the cheapest way to obtain NG.

Now if the only reason that it's not both the greenest and cheapest is that we're making it prohibitively expensive with arbitrary rules, then yes, my rule-of-thumb guess will be proven incorrect, and you can say I was wrong.
Get over it Lio - your argument has been shredded
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  #13102  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:45 AM
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In America's big cities (where Trump is highly unpopular), I would think more people wish Trudeau was their President than the guy in the White House now?
Dallas? Houston? Miami? Atlanta?
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  #13103  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:49 AM
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Dallas? Houston? Miami? Atlanta?
Dumb? Dumber? Dumbest?

Begone, thou unclean banned forumer!

doh...hyuck, hyuck, hyuck!!
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  #13104  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post

pf solutions

You must be pissed off at the IMF as well: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ticle35779415/
Revenues from energy are substantial to Canada's GDP and without revenues, and spinoffs, the standard of living in all of Canada would decline.

What would Canada's GDP be without revenues from energy? A country the size of Canada, with its relatively small population and the incredible resource wealth, the government should be doing more to promote energy projects and investment.

People who think tech and green industries are going to provide the revenues needed to support Canada's standard of living and social programs are dreaming.
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  #13105  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:51 AM
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Revenues from energy are substantial to Canada's GDP and without revenues, and spinoffs, the standard of living in all of Canada would decline.

What would Canada's GDP be without revenues from energy? A country the size of Canada, with its relatively small population and the incredible resource wealth, the government should be doing more to promote energy projects and investment.

People who think tech and green industries are going to provide the revenues needed to support Canada's standard of living and social programs are dreaming.

Shit, full of.

You forgot to slag Quebec!
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  #13106  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:52 AM
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Originally Posted by odog View Post
Dallas?
Dallas County went 60% Democratic in 2016.

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Originally Posted by odog View Post
Houston?
Harris County went 54% Democratic in 2016.

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Originally Posted by odog View Post
Miami?
Miami-Dade County went 63% Democratic in 2016.

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Originally Posted by odog View Post
Atlanta?
Fulton County went 68% Democratic in 2016.



Depending on how much suburban fringe you include, but if you talk about just the city proper, I can essentially guarantee that they'd rather have someone like Trudeau than Trump.
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  #13107  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Dumb? Dumber? Dumbest?

Begone, thou unclean banned forumer!

doh...hyuck, hyuck, hyuck!!
I just made a point that some of the biggest cities in the USA do support trump. What's wrong with my post? It did not insult anybody.
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  #13108  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 2:58 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Dallas County went 60% Democratic in 2016.



Harris County went 54% Democratic in 2016.



Miami-Dade County went 63% Democratic in 2016.



Fulton County went 68% Democratic in 2016.



Depending on how much suburban fringe you include, but if you talk about just the city proper, I can essentially guarantee that they'd rather have someone like Trudeau than Trump.
So 46% in Houston went Republic - wow, everyone there "hates" Trump.
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  #13109  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:03 AM
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It did not insult anybody.
there is a first time for everything. Let's just say with 15/21 posts basically slandering Quebec, it will take a long time for me to presume your honest intentions.

On the other hand, at least you didn't deny that you were banned.
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  #13110  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:04 AM
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Originally Posted by vid View Post
Dallas County went 60% Democratic in 2016.



Harris County went 54% Democratic in 2016.



Miami-Dade County went 63% Democratic in 2016.



Fulton County went 68% Democratic in 2016.



Depending on how much suburban fringe you include, but if you talk about just the city proper, I can essentially guarantee that they'd rather have someone like Trudeau than Trump.
If you looked at the voting for the Metros, and not just the city proper, you would probably see less democrat support.

If the USA had Trudeau as the President, and he bailed out money losing fatcats like Bombardier, raised taxes, ballooned the debt way more then he promised, allowed america's competitors to undermine them with billion dollar energy projects, and flounced around the globe taking selfies, I'm sure he would not be very popular.
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  #13111  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by odog View Post
If you looked at the voting for the Metros, and not just the city proper, you would probably see less democrat support.

If the USA had Trudeau as the President, and he bailed out money losing fatcats like Bombardier, raised taxes, ballooned the debt way more then he promised, allowed america's competitors to undermine them with billion dollar energy projects, and flounced around the globe taking selfies, I'm sure he would not be very popular.
I didn't have to wait very long.

Thanks for another red herring. look it up.
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  #13112  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
there is a first time for everything. Let's just say with 15/21 posts basically slandering Quebec, it will take a long time for me to presume your honest intentions.

On the other hand, at least you didn't deny that you were banned.
How did all my posts slander Quebec? I just brought up some valid points for discussion.

Also, Alberta takes a sh*tkicking and get slandered constantly, despite the incredible contributions it makes to this country.
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  #13113  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Shit, full of.

You forgot to slag Quebec!
Why is my post "shit, full of."?

Its a good point.

You keep calling me nasty things, accusing me of slandering Quebec and that I should be banned.

What about you? Time to look in the mirror MolsonExport.
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  #13114  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:18 AM
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How did all my posts slander Quebec? I just brought up some valid points for discussion.

Also, Alberta takes a sh*tkicking and get slandered constantly, despite the incredible contributions it makes to this country.
And Quebec hasn't made any contributions to this country? But 15/21 posts you felt it necessary to slander an entire province and its people? That is one hell of a strategy to seek accolades for Alberta.
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The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
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  #13115  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:19 AM
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Why is my post "shit, full of."?

Its a good point.

You keep calling me nasty things, accusing me of slandering Quebec and that I should be banned.

What about you? Time to look in the mirror MolsonExport.
Puck Hoff.

The modding in the Canadian forum has reached a new low.
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  #13116  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:30 AM
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Trump has lost about a third to half of his support nation-wide in the past 8 months. I think you would see strong opposition to him from essentially every major city in the US.

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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
The modding in the Canadian forum has reached a new low.
It's because we allow this kind of discussion. We let it slide with the Harper's Canada thread because we all hated him and now we've got this thread because "equality" and all it does is give the snowflakes a freezer to chill in.

I say we unplug this freezer and get back to talking about bike lanes and skyscrapers.
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  #13117  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Puck Hoff.

The modding in the Canadian forum has reached a new low.
Making slanderous statements means to make false statements, which I have not done. The statements I made about Quebec were in response to people like you discussing Quebec’s recent positive economic numbers. I argued that since Quebec has benefitted greatly from wealth transfers (equalization), protection of key industries (dairy), and bailouts for certain perennial money losing corporations (Bombardier) that the recent economic news from Quebec should be taken with a grain of salt. How are these statement slanderous? Also, in response to a post stating Quebec may emerge as an economic dynamo “post oil” I responded that this may be a stretch due to the reliance Quebec has become used to, with an example of rioting students destroying public property due to proposed increases to very low tuition rates. How is this slanderous?

In response you have called me “dumb”, “shit, full of” and told me to f*ck off. Also, you say I should be banned.

You have very thin skin MolsonExport – I expected more from a leading proponent of such a dynamic and economically powerful place like Quebec.
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  #13118  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 4:11 AM
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And Quebec hasn't made any contributions to this country? But 15/21 posts you felt it necessary to slander an entire province and its people? That is one hell of a strategy to seek accolades for Alberta.
Haha! Now I'm not gonna slander the people of QC, but I will definitely highlight the economic drain the province has been

Quebec has received close to $200 billion in transfer payments! Which is over 50% of the total transfer payments

Alberta on the other hand has received a total of.... drum roll.... $92 million... ! That is less than 0.05% of the amount of transfer payments QC has received!

Keep up the great economic contributions QC!
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  #13119  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
That's what I'm saying - both of these are points in favor of BC's NG financially, yet it apparently still doesn't make sense for Petronas, so I would assume there are significant drawbacks, such as BC's NG being more difficult to obtain (i.e. dirtier/pricier).
late to the game and extra local taxes (when compared to the AUS and USA)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
If BC's NG was truly greener (Hackslash's original statement that I'm doubting) then I find it hard to believe it's not competitive price-wise.

I mean, the greenest NG is: 1) easy to harvest, 2) found near populated areas, 3) close to shipping terminals, and 4) the shipping terminals are close to the end users. For all of these factors, "greenest" and "cheapest" are pretty well aligned.
Okay, so there is your mistake - you are assuming that external costs have been internalized and reflected in the product pricing. Qatar, the largest LNG exporter in the world, has a GHG emission per capitia nearly 3 times that of Canada. Is no where near populations (unless they're swimming), far from markets (3 times the distance as PR) and come from a country where GHG are through the roof. As for Australia, its GHG numbers are nearly 30% higher than Canada, fields are isolated (under lots of water) expensive to extract and far from the customer but no export excise taxes nor carbon taxes. As neither of two locations have local carbon taxes their LNG does not reflect the true cost (extraction+environmental impacts) and thus appear to be cheaper than BC gas.

Anyway, short story long, since BC gas tries to include many of the real costs (extract+environmental) into their product - unlike the competitors - it kinda supports Hackslack's original assertion that BC gas is more environmentally friendly.
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Last edited by shreddog; Jul 27, 2017 at 5:07 AM.
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  #13120  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 5:23 AM
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Get over it Lio - your argument has been shredded
What "argument"? I started by asking a question, and I don't have a stake in this except that I, as a resident of this planet, would prefer to keep it as intact as possible.

If the overall enviro footprint of our NG is actually somehow smaller per unit of volume extracted than other current sources and the only reason our NG is so pricey it'll stay in the ground is unreasonable regulations, then yes, that's somewhat stupid and that would be "doing the globe a disservice". But it's just not the kind of thing I'll accept to believe at face value just because someone on an internet site says so. BTW, shreddog knows I'm reasonably open-minded, otherwise he wouldn't bother discussing with me (and vice versa - I like him as a poster here and am always glad to engage him; unlike you, for example).
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