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  #13381  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 1:56 AM
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Those things are completely baseless. We have the best growth in decades after two years with the Liberals. Are they the only reason? Of course not. Can you completely separate them from that? Of course not.

Its really hard to reason with a Liberal. No offence.

If you’ve ever tried to calmly explain to a liberal why some government policy is good or bad, you have doubtless run into the “Wall of Ignorance” – simply put, the absolute refusal to confront factual reality. No matter the topic, as soon as you start running down the list of facts that completely refute the premise of your liberal friends, they will simply refuse to admit that their position is untenable.

It’s as if they live in a world where “belief” or even more disturbing, “opinion” takes precedence over fact and reality. For example, I have heard the following statement, almost verbatim, from at least three liberal legislators, in defense of one ridiculous law or another: “I have no evidence to support it, but I believe….”

Think about that for a moment. No evidence. None. Yet they are ready to ram through some new infringement on the public’s freedoms, pocketbooks, or both – simply based on a “belief.” Because, more often than not, they don’t think – they feel. Worse, even after you prove that the beliefs which were the basis of their stance are completely untrue, it will make not one whit of difference to them.

Take the oft-heard liberal lie that “the rich don’t pay any taxes” – often used as an excuse to raise taxes on “the rich” even more. (Note: They never explain why they paradoxically want to raise taxes on people who, according to them, “don’t pay taxes” – how does that work, exactly?) Even when you point out that CRA official records, taken right off actual tax returns, show that the higher up the ladder in income you go, the more the income tax burden falls on “the rich” – liberals don’t care.....
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  #13382  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 1:58 AM
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The problem is that there wasn't even one fact in what you just wrote. Not one. In fact, it was all opinion, and feeling.
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  #13383  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 2:47 AM
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Just to be clear, Trudeau's polls have gone up over this issue.
I'm not surprised that the mantra "make the rich pay" works well with the "average voter". After all, the average voters don't want to pay more taxes themselves do they? Let's pass the buck and peddle class warfare instead then.........

The Liberals have done a grand job of screaming from the rooftops that the "rich" have been screwing over Canada for decades, but they forget to mention that their tax plan doesn't include dealing with the practice of paying elite Bay Street capitalists a large portion of their income in stock options, which are typically taxed at only 50% the rate of normal income.

The net result is that the truly wealthy, the truly influential captains of industry and Bay Street elite, the 8,000 or so multimillionaires and billionaires who constitute the "old stock" of the Toronto centric Liberal Party will continue to make out like bandits, while modestly upper middle class independent professionals, farmers and small business people, people worried about keeping their businesses afloat and having enough saved for retirement will be sacrificed on the altar of Liberal political expediency, in a vain effort to mollify the masses and hold them up as proof that the 1% are getting their just desserts.

All the while, the trust fund babies Morneau and Trudeau will keep laughing all the way to the bank..........

Bread and circuses indeed..............
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Sep 17, 2017 at 5:00 PM.
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  #13384  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 3:43 AM
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The problem is that there wasn't even one fact in what you just wrote. Not one. In fact, it was all opinion, and feeling.
Buddy...You are the the problem. And as much as you hate to know or understand, The Liberal way of thinking is a damn Cancer to a functional society.

You dont know it. And probably never will lol...

Liberals around the world now are facing a backlash that will end this astronomical illusion of entitlement.
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  #13385  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 5:14 AM
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  #13386  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 5:20 AM
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  #13387  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 5:22 AM
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A little history..... Liberal Craziness. Obama or Trudeau =Village Idiots.....

https://youtu.be/P3hY1eagq88

https://youtu.be/C_lY_XD6aVA
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Last edited by Black Star; Sep 17, 2017 at 5:54 AM.
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  #13388  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 6:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


A lot of truth in that article.

Personally, the tax changes might mean that I work a few years longer to avoid having to dip into my retirement savings until I absolutely have to.

What I fear however is a drastic drop in my working conditions, with younger members of my group decamping for more tax friendly jurisdictions. The two youngest members of my group have not yet built ties in the community. One is from Alberta, and since the tax rate there is a full 10% less than NB, she could leave so that she would have more after tax dollars to invest for retirement. The wife of the second young member of my group is actively lobbying for her husband to move to the USA. Combined with planned (and expected) retirements, I could end up working in a section with five radiologists rather than 10. This would mean longer work days, increased call responsibility and more stress. Some of the work that we do will have to be abandoned - things like therapeutic joint injections. Patient care would most definitely suffer.

In this second scenario, I think the risk of burnout for me would be so high that I would likely opt to retire early myself, probably in three years time, compounding the manpower crisis. It would mean a more parsimonious retirement for me, but I would have better mental health as a result.

There will be consequences from JT's tax plan..........
The problem with a lot of the people complaining like yourself is you're not seeing the bigger picturer which is summed up very well here:

"...Prof. Milligan and others point out that the private-company structure delivers the greatest benefit to high earners. It deviates from the guiding principle that people who earn the same amount should pay the same amount of tax. Left unchecked, the current trend toward incorporation risks creating a two-tiered system – a flexible, low-tax one for people who can take advantage of incorporation and a much sterner, higher tax one for those who can't(bold mine)..."


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...ticle36280856/
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  #13389  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 6:51 PM
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The problem with a lot of the people complaining like yourself is you're not seeing the bigger picturer which is summed up very well here:

"...Prof. Milligan and others point out that the private-company structure delivers the greatest benefit to high earners. It deviates from the guiding principle that people who earn the same amount should pay the same amount of tax. Left unchecked, the current trend toward incorporation risks creating a two-tiered system – a flexible, low-tax one for people who can take advantage of incorporation and a much sterner, higher tax one for those who can't(bold mine)..."


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...ticle36280856/
And why haven't you responded to my complaints about how JT's reforms don't target stock options as a form of income? Don't you care that he is attacking mom and pop operations and not multimillionaire and billionaire corporate elites? Where is the fairness in that?

Morneau is definitely a multimillionaire and benefits from stock options. Trudeau also has a number of private companies and a trust fund from his father. I have a sneaking suspicion that they will both escape relatively unscathed.

If you want to absolutely level the playing field with salaried employees, then you will have to make all company benefits taxable in the hands of recipients as a form of compensation (and company benefits are quite definitely a form of employee compensation), otherwise why should anyone give up a cushy salaried position with benefits for the wild west of private entrepreneurship???

Fair is fair...........
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Last edited by MonctonRad; Sep 17, 2017 at 7:02 PM.
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  #13390  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
And why haven't you responded to my complaints about how JT's reforms don't target stock options as a form of income?
...
Morneau is definitely a multimillionaire and benefits from stock options.
As posted earlier, BM holds about 1.4 M options for Morneau Shepell. No idea what the exercise prices are, but assuming he nets $10 a share, there is a nice $14M kept outside these tax reforms.
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  #13391  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Black Star View Post
A little history..... Liberal Craziness. Obama or Trudeau =Village Idiots.....

https://youtu.be/P3hY1eagq88

https://youtu.be/C_lY_XD6aVA
If you want to see village of idiots look up Ford Fest or Ford Nation on YouTube. Conservative nuttiness at its best. And follow Trumps tweets. None of your links even come close to what stupid people out there will do and say. I used to vote conservative religiously. Then I grew up and stopped believing their lies. Thank God Harper is gone and let's hop the Dems can find somebody to dump Trump. Can't wait to see Doug Ford fail miserably as he tries to run for mayor of Toronto.
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  #13392  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 8:41 PM
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Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
And why haven't you responded to my complaints about how JT's reforms don't target stock options as a form of income? Don't you care that he is attacking mom and pop operations and not multimillionaire and billionaire corporate elites? Where is the fairness in that?
I don't think I understand this criticism. Aren't profits from the sale of stocks taxable as income?
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  #13393  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 8:47 PM
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I don't think I understand this criticism. Aren't profits from the sale of stocks taxable as income?
Half of the capital gain is taxable
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  #13394  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 8:57 PM
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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, they do. It's taxed as/when paid out.

Yes but at a lower rate as presumably a defined benefit earner would no longer be working. A defined benefit pension is in effect a former of compensation and should be taxed as such in the year in which was earned.
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  #13395  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 9:22 PM
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Yeah, that must be why he's delivered G7 leading growth. And without relying on Harpo's one trick pony, the oil industry.
And how is private sector, non real estate, capital spending doing? Canada's recent burst of GDP growth is likely due to large government deficits and consumer spending driven by the imaginary wealth effect of the housing bubble.

Energy is likely the only sustainable contributor to economic growth, due to the large capital investments made prior to the collapse in prices. Even the Toronto Star agrees:
https://www.thestar.com/business/eco...n-economy.html
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  #13396  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 9:42 PM
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The problem with a lot of the people complaining like yourself is you're not seeing the bigger picturer which is summed up very well here:

"...Prof. Milligan and others point out that the private-company structure delivers the greatest benefit to high earners. It deviates from the guiding principle that people who earn the same amount should pay the same amount of tax. Left unchecked, the current trend toward incorporation risks creating a two-tiered system – a flexible, low-tax one for people who can take advantage of incorporation and a much sterner, higher tax one for those who can't(bold mine)..."


https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...ticle36280856/
There are no "those who can't". Everyone is free to start their own business and incorporate if they wish. You just have to live with the risk that you won't make any money. And you'll have to save for your own retirement and pay out of your pocket when you need dental care, eyeglasses, , etc.
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  #13397  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 10:03 PM
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There are no "those who can't". Everyone is free to start their own business and incorporate if they wish. You just have to live with the risk that you won't make any money. And you'll have to save for your own retirement and pay out of your pocket when you need dental care, eyeglasses, , etc.
Exactly. There's always been a steep price to pay (in terms of financial insecurity) to enjoy those advantages. Everyone can, if they have the stomach for it. It's not only positives.

The way I see it, we can roughly evaluate how well balanced the advantages and disadvantages enjoyed by self-employed people in a given jurisdiction is by looking at how many people choose to be entrepreneurial. If it's noticeably lower than you'd expect, it probably means there aren't enough advantages.
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  #13398  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 10:08 PM
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Left unchecked, the current trend toward incorporation risks creating a two-tiered system – a flexible, low-tax one for people who can take advantage of incorporation and a much sterner, higher tax one for those who can't(bold mine)..."
"risks creating"? It's always been like that in my lifetime at least - a low-tax system for people who pay for their benefits and have no job security, and a high-tax system for people who get regular, steady paychecks.

It's fair and reasonable - anyone from one group can decide they're fed up with the drawbacks and move to the other group because grass is greener there. Case in point: one of my good friends was in business for years, ended up with more failures than successes, and now he is an employee in the engineering department at U de Sherbrooke... regular schedule, no surprises, little responsibility, regular paycheck.

As long as there's total freedom of mobility between the two groups, it's totally fair, by definition. If you think the other group has it better, overall - which is what my friend did when he ultimately decided "fuck entrepreneurship, I'm moving from my low-tax group to the high-tax group and I'm sure I'll prefer it there" - then all you have to do is change groups.
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  #13399  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 10:22 PM
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Just a thought, BTW - if whatnext is correct in his evaluation that it's currently unfairly advantageous to be self-employed in Canada... how come so few people do it?

I would instead posit the opposite, that it's not advantageous enough - Canada is a bit of an entrepreneurship laggard, overall.
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  #13400  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2017, 10:39 PM
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The problem is that the number of incorporations have increased dramatically.
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