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  #641  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 8:40 PM
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Not the best article. Austin is still the 2nd fastest growing large Metro which is pretty damn good despite being #1 since 2011. But Travis County and the City of Austin should be worried about tax revenue.
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  #642  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 8:56 PM
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Where does Austin currently rank among the largest metros? Article says we're now 26th. Are we ahead of Pittsburgh?
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  #643  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 8:58 PM
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Not the best article. Austin is still the 2nd fastest growing large Metro which is pretty damn good despite being #1 since 2011. But Travis County and the City of Austin should be worried about tax revenue.
I agree on both fronts (regarding the article and tax base (to an extent)).

Also, one cannot claim a trend with only one data point. Comparing a migration model between 2022 and 2023 cannot describe a pattern. Doing so only serves one purpose - to push a specific (potentially false) narrative or angle. It's not scientific.

I'm not worried. Having studied the growth of this region for more than 30 years, it would take a lot more to make me really worry. However, is it something to watch in the coming years? Absolutely.

**Remember - The U.S. Census Bureau updates all of its estimates at each release. For example, in last year's release for July 1, 2022 - they estimated Austin's Metro at 2,421,115. They increased that in this year's release (for last year - July 1, 2022) to 2,423,170 (a net gain of 2,055 people without doing anything). So, take the data with a grain of salt.

These are what they say they are - estimates. The City of Austin's demographer will have another set of estimates. As will the State's. But, these (U.S. Census Bureau's) are the "official" estimates.
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AUSTIN (City): 974,447 +1.30% - '20-'22 | AUSTIN MSA (5 counties): 2,473,275 +8.32% - '20-'23
SAN ANTONIO (City): 1,472,909 +2.69% - '20-'22 | SAN ANTONIO MSA (8 counties): 2,703,999 +5.70% - '20-'23
AUS-SAT REGION (MSAs/13 counties): 5,177,274 +6.94% - '20-'23 | *SRC: US Census*

Last edited by GoldenBoot; Mar 17, 2024 at 11:30 PM.
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  #644  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 9:15 PM
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With Samsung, Tesla and other company relocations here I'm not worried about growth... we will be a top growth metro for some time. Where that growth goes is debatable.
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  #645  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 9:52 PM
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Super Nerd Time!!!!

The components of change are as follows:

Austin MSA
Total population change +50,105
Births +29,371
Deaths -12,564
Net domestic migration +22,339
International immigration +11,073

Travis County
Total population change +7,411
Births +16,289
Deaths -6,312
Net domestic migration -10,479
International immigration +8,068

Williamson County
Total population change +24,918
Births +8,043
Deaths -3,494
Net domestic migration +17,943
International immigration +2,390

Hays County
Total population change +11,383
Births +3,072
Deaths -1,448
Net domestic migration +9,286
International immigration +456

Bastrop County
Total population change +4,383
Births +1,321
Deaths -852
Net domestic migration +3,854
International immigration +73

Caldwell County
Total population change +2,010
Births +646
Deaths -458
Net domestic migration +1,735
International immigration +86
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  #646  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 10:01 PM
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My analysis? This was much like any other year for the last couple of decades with one exception.

The negative 10,479 for net domestic migration in Travis County. That is the variable that changed the outcome. Even if it had been flat Travis County would have grown by 17,000+, and the metro would've grown by 60,000+, and there'd really be nothing to talk about because it'd be business as usual.

We'll see in the coming years if this is a trend, or an anomaly.
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  #647  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
My analysis? This was much like any other year for the last couple of decades with one exception.

The negative 10,479 for net domestic migration in Travis County. That is the variable that changed the outcome. Even if it had been flat Travis County would have grown by 17,000+, and the metro would've grown by 60,000+, and there'd really be nothing to talk about because it'd be business as usual.

We'll see in the coming years if this is a trend, or an anomaly.
the other thing is July 22-23 is probably the peak of unaffordability in core Austin/Travis. With rental costs coming down, that might at least reduce that outmigration.
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  #648  
Old Posted Mar 15, 2024, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
My analysis? This was much like any other year for the last couple of decades with one exception.

The negative 10,479 for net domestic migration in Travis County. That is the variable that changed the outcome. Even if it had been flat Travis County would have grown by 17,000+, and the metro would've grown by 60,000+, and there'd really be nothing to talk about because it'd be business as usual.

We'll see in the coming years if this is a trend, or an anomaly.
Agreed, with last year mass layoffs and increasing unaffordability most likely dampened Austin growth from what it has been previously. Luckily we have Tesla and the Samsung expansion to cushion the fall.
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  #649  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2024, 6:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
My analysis? This was much like any other year for the last couple of decades with one exception.

The negative 10,479 for net domestic migration in Travis County. That is the variable that changed the outcome. Even if it had been flat Travis County would have grown by 17,000+, and the metro would've grown by 60,000+, and there'd really be nothing to talk about because it'd be business as usual.

We'll see in the coming years if this is a trend, or an anomaly.
How much of that domestic migration was within the metropolitan area? I.E. can you break domestic migration into four groups: 1. from Travis into other metro county, 2. from other metro county into Travis, 3, from outside of metro into Travis, and 3. from Travis to outside of metro.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)
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  #650  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2024, 1:43 PM
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Williamson County may be growing faster than Travis, but it is still smaller. That could change if Robinson Ranch ever develops to the full potential of the annexation and zoning agreement with the City of Austin. Williamson County might become more populated than Travis, but the City of Austin would be the largest city in both counties.
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  #651  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2024, 5:59 PM
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How much of that domestic migration was within the metropolitan area? I.E. can you break domestic migration into four groups: 1. from Travis into other metro county, 2. from other metro county into Travis, 3, from outside of metro into Travis, and 3. from Travis to outside of metro.
I had the same thoughts. I unfortunately don't know where to access that data. I'm sure a lot of people moving out of Travis County did indeed stay in the metro, but I could only speculate as to the percentage.
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  #652  
Old Posted Mar 16, 2024, 8:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
I had the same thoughts. I unfortunately don't know where to access that data. I'm sure a lot of people moving out of Travis County did indeed stay in the metro, but I could only speculate as to the percentage.
Suburban, master-planned home communities are where the massive growth potential lies. Infill typically comes with a decrease in population, as household sizes shrink.

I am not as worried as others here about the long-term projections versus the long-term reality. Projections are infrastructure blind, and Williamson + Hays do not have the forthcoming infrastructure in the planning phases to support a majority of the metro population. Master planned communities follow the infrastructure just as much as they follow the jobs, and the vast majority of the infrastructure able to support these master planned developments has been, is, and will be happening in Travis County. Major developments will also likely cool somewhat in the 35 corridor during the reconstruction, and shift to the 130 corridor, which will be a relative boon for Travis and Caldwell.

The entire sector of town bounded by 130, 35, 45, and 71 is just getting started with development and the area around Tesla (the 130/183/290/71 sector of town, which includes the Dog’s Head) has yet to start booming as well. The sector including Pflugerville and northeast Austin (45/290/130/35) is still half empty. Manor has yet to truly boom. These are not “in-city” areas, but they are within Travis County. And that doesn’t include any development outside of 130 in the county or in the western hills (which will happen).

Within 30 years there will be little to no farmland left within the outer loop (45/130/620) and there’s easily enough land to absorb another 300-400k population just in greenfield developments within the loop. Plus infill. Plus developments outside of the loop. But again, hardly any of this is in Austin FPJ, and it is important to keep the growth narrative going as long as possible and so our recent zoning changes could pay dividends as well.

As for Williamson, there’s a bit more juice left in the 35/45/130 Round Rock/Georgetown sector and about half of the 35/183/45/29 sector left. There’ll be more booming in the 183 corridor outside of 29 (Liberty Hill) and in the 79 corridor outside of 130 (Hutto, Taylor) as well as 130 corridor developments (development) and Jarrell on 35. I’d also look to Florence as a potential late bloomer. All of this, though, doesn’t add up to outgrowing Travis given Travis’s also ample opportunities.

Hays: unless they end up with a major employer or facility, growth there is going to be contingent upon US-290 developments in and around Dripping Springs and what happens in San Marcos going forward. There’s still plenty of room left in the Kyle and Buda sector but the infrastructure growing pains are difficult and problematic and that’s gonna end up slowing things down there once development reaches SH-21. Wimberley and Woodcreek are a minor growth pocket as well. I keep waiting for San Marcos to land some major employers and manufacturing facilities but it seems like it just won’t happen. Genuinely, I want the Austin/San Antonio region to develop more of its cities into actual cities rather than just suburbs. Georgetown, Round Rock, San Marcos, and New Braunfels all need to step up to the plate and put some urban heft and distance between themselves and the actual regional suburbs (Cedar Park, Kyle, Buda, Dripping Springs, Bastrop, Manor, Elgin, etc.).
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 16, 2024 at 9:41 PM.
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  #653  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2024, 1:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
Suburban, master-planned home communities are where the massive growth potential lies. Infill typically comes with a decrease in population, as household sizes shrink.

I am not as worried as others here about the long-term projections versus the long-term reality. Projections are infrastructure blind, and Williamson + Hays do not have the forthcoming infrastructure in the planning phases to support a majority of the metro population. Master planned communities follow the infrastructure just as much as they follow the jobs, and the vast majority of the infrastructure able to support these master planned developments has been, is, and will be happening in Travis County. Major developments will also likely cool somewhat in the 35 corridor during the reconstruction, and shift to the 130 corridor, which will be a relative boon for Travis and Caldwell.

The entire sector of town bounded by 130, 35, 45, and 71 is just getting started with development and the area around Tesla (the 130/183/290/71 sector of town, which includes the Dog’s Head) has yet to start booming as well. The sector including Pflugerville and northeast Austin (45/290/130/35) is still half empty. Manor has yet to truly boom. These are not “in-city” areas, but they are within Travis County. And that doesn’t include any development outside of 130 in the county or in the western hills (which will happen).

Within 30 years there will be little to no farmland left within the outer loop (45/130/620) and there’s easily enough land to absorb another 300-400k population just in greenfield developments within the loop. Plus infill. Plus developments outside of the loop. But again, hardly any of this is in Austin FPJ, and it is important to keep the growth narrative going as long as possible and so our recent zoning changes could pay dividends as well.

As for Williamson, there’s a bit more juice left in the 35/45/130 Round Rock/Georgetown sector and about half of the 35/183/45/29 sector left. There’ll be more booming in the 183 corridor outside of 29 (Liberty Hill) and in the 79 corridor outside of 130 (Hutto, Taylor) as well as 130 corridor developments (development) and Jarrell on 35. I’d also look to Florence as a potential late bloomer. All of this, though, doesn’t add up to outgrowing Travis given Travis’s also ample opportunities.

Hays: unless they end up with a major employer or facility, growth there is going to be contingent upon US-290 developments in and around Dripping Springs and what happens in San Marcos going forward. There’s still plenty of room left in the Kyle and Buda sector but the infrastructure growing pains are difficult and problematic and that’s gonna end up slowing things down there once development reaches SH-21. Wimberley and Woodcreek are a minor growth pocket as well. I keep waiting for San Marcos to land some major employers and manufacturing facilities but it seems like it just won’t happen. Genuinely, I want the Austin/San Antonio region to develop more of its cities into actual cities rather than just suburbs. Georgetown, Round Rock, San Marcos, and New Braunfels all need to step up to the plate and put some urban heft and distance between themselves and the actual regional suburbs (Cedar Park, Kyle, Buda, Dripping Springs, Bastrop, Manor, Elgin, etc.).
You are certainly right Travis County should continue to grow substantially in the coming decades. Even if due to environmental factors and preserve land you dismiss the western third, and consider the middle third already essentially built out, you have basically the entire Eastern third available to build massive amounts of housing.

But, there are factors to consider such as school districts which can play a big role in an area's fortunes. Much of Eastern Travis County is in school districts which aren't considered very good. Of course that doesn't mean it won't grow at all, but getting that massive boom with huge population surges may prove difficult.

With that said, I know there are already some big developments planned, so maybe Travis County can turn it around. I hope so because census numbers affect where a lot of federal $$$ are allocated.
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  #654  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2024, 3:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Lobotomizer View Post
You are certainly right Travis County should continue to grow substantially in the coming decades. Even if due to environmental factors and preserve land you dismiss the western third, and consider the middle third already essentially built out, you have basically the entire Eastern third available to build massive amounts of housing.

But, there are factors to consider such as school districts which can play a big role in an area's fortunes. Much of Eastern Travis County is in school districts which aren't considered very good. Of course that doesn't mean it won't grow at all, but getting that massive boom with huge population surges may prove difficult.

With that said, I know there are already some big developments planned, so maybe Travis County can turn it around. I hope so because census numbers affect where a lot of federal $$$ are allocated.
The school district point is a VERY important caveat, but is becoming less so as charter schools pick up steam.

The 2022 vintage TDC current growth model projects the following in 2060 for the broader Central Texas and Hill Country counties (groupings my own)

Capital Region
Travis: 2,252,137
Williamson: 1,682,556

Alamo Region
Bexar: 3,102,720

Mid Region
Hays: 1,003,130
Comal: 584,380
Guadalupe: 387,281
Caldwell: 75,583
Gonzales: 16,865

Base Region
Bell: 509,836
Coryell: 86,111
Lampasas: 23,542

North Region
McLennan: 354,573
Falls: 11,633

East Region
Bastrop: 223,711
Fayette: 23,121
Milam: 21,037
Lee: 18,062

Highland Region
Burnet: 70,323
Llano: 25,729
Blanco: 11,518
San Saba: 4,035
Mason: 3,661

West Region
Kendall: 111,448
Kerr: 63,589
Gillespie: 33,419
Bandera: 22,586
Kimble: 3,313
Real: 1,187

South Region
Wilson: 73,304
Atascosa: 64,960
Medina: 61,719
Frio: 21,623
Uvalde: 16,822

The new estimates will be out on March 21st.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 17, 2024 at 7:39 PM.
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  #655  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2024, 4:36 AM
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Wow, 5 million in Travis/Williamson/Hays would be nuts!
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  #656  
Old Posted Mar 17, 2024, 11:33 PM
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Super Nerd Time!!!!

The components of change are as follows:

Austin MSA
Total population change +50,105
Births +29,371
Deaths -12,564
Net domestic migration +22,339
International immigration +11,073

Travis County
Total population change +7,411
Births +16,289
Deaths -6,312
Net domestic migration -10,479
International immigration +8,068

Williamson County
Total population change +24,918
Births +8,043
Deaths -3,494
Net domestic migration +17,943
International immigration +2,390

Hays County
Total population change +11,383
Births +3,072
Deaths -1,448
Net domestic migration +9,286
International immigration +456

Bastrop County
Total population change +4,383
Births +1,321
Deaths -852
Net domestic migration +3,854
International immigration +73

Caldwell County
Total population change +2,010
Births +646
Deaths -458
Net domestic migration +1,735
International immigration +86
Watch for Burnet county to very soon be added to Austin's MSA. Currently, it is bigger than Caldwell and is quite mobile.

Blanco might follow in the coming decades. However, it's does not have a very mobile population - as of right now.
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AUSTIN (City): 974,447 +1.30% - '20-'22 | AUSTIN MSA (5 counties): 2,473,275 +8.32% - '20-'23
SAN ANTONIO (City): 1,472,909 +2.69% - '20-'22 | SAN ANTONIO MSA (8 counties): 2,703,999 +5.70% - '20-'23
AUS-SAT REGION (MSAs/13 counties): 5,177,274 +6.94% - '20-'23 | *SRC: US Census*
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  #657  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2024, 12:47 AM
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Watch for Burnet county to very soon be added to Austin's MSA. Currently, it is bigger than Caldwell and is quite mobile.

Blanco might follow in the coming decades. However, it's does not have a very mobile population - as of right now.
Milam, Fayette, and Lee are all closer to being added by the used metric than either Burnet or Blanco. This dynamic will be reinforced by the Taylor Samsung plant (in a core county of the MSA), which will be within easy commuting distance from Milam and Lee Counties. I would look for Milam and Lee to be added soon after that plant goes fully online and Fayette shortly thereafter.

Burnet and Llano are more likely to be consolidated into a re-formed Marble Falls statistical area, with decent potential at an Austin-Marble Falls CSA.

Blanco, otoh, is a quandary. As it stands, it has been moderately below threshold for inclusion in both the Austin and San Antonio MSAs for awhile now (iirc, San Antonio actually pulls more commuters) and a decent share also commute into Burnet and Llano Counties for work. There’s hardly any home-grown economy and most people commute out for non-farm jobs, so infrastructure connections to other towns are informative. Planned and completed infrastructure is kind of a wash, though. US-281 has been upgraded to freeway to the Blanco County border, US-290 will be upgraded to freeway just short of Blanco County (til Dripping Springs), and there’s still a decent connection to Marble Falls. My guess is that it winds up staying outside of any metro for awhile as they all split the outbound commuters (Blanco into San Antonio, Johnson City into Austin, and Round Mountain into Marble Falls) fairly evenly and no metro is able to hit the commuter threshold.

If I had to guess which one will end up adding Blanco, it will be San Antonio at first rather than Austin or Marble Falls. The infrastructure connections and upgrades to Bexar already exist rather than being in the planning stages to Austin. Marble Falls is a much smaller draw. Furthermore, the skillsets in Blanco County are matched better with jobs offered in the San Antonio blue collar market than in the Austin white collar one, making the attainment of a necessary number of employed commuters into Bexar County more … plausible.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 18, 2024 at 3:46 AM.
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  #658  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2024, 3:24 PM
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^^ I would agree with that assessment.
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  #659  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2024, 6:57 PM
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Edit:

I think I’ve said this before, but I genuinely think the pathway forward for the emerging mega-region is something like (dates rough guesstimates to illustrate):

2030: Austin MSA adds Milam and Lee, Marble Falls MSA created from Llano and Burnet, Austin CSA created
2035: Austin MSA adds Fayette
2040: San Antonio MSA adds Blanco
2045: Austin CSA adds Killeen-Temple MSA, Kerr added to San Antonio MSA outright
2050: San Antonio MSA adds Gonzales
2055: Austin and Killeen-Temple are merged into a single MSA with two divisions
2060: Austin-San Antonio-Killeen CSA created

Within thirty years after that (outside of most of our lives), they’ll likely be a single built up area. Hopefully not. Hopefully growth slows.
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HTOWN: 2305k (+10%) + MSA suburbs: 4818k (+26%) + CSA exurbs: 190k (+6%)
BIGD: 1304k (+9%) + MSA div. suburbs: 3826k (+26%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 394k (+8%)
FTW: 919k (+24%) + MSA div. suburbs: 1589k (+14%) + adj. CSA exurbs: 90k (+12%)
SATX: 1435k (+8%) + MSA suburbs: 1124k (+38%) + CSA exurbs: 18k (+11%)
ATX: 962k (+22%) + MSA suburbs: 1322k (+43%)

Last edited by wwmiv; Mar 18, 2024 at 7:57 PM.
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  #660  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2024, 11:54 PM
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Edit:

I think I’ve said this before, but I genuinely think the pathway forward for the emerging mega-region is something like (dates rough guesstimates to illustrate):

2030: Austin MSA adds Milam and Lee, Marble Falls MSA created from Llano and Burnet, Austin CSA created
2035: Austin MSA adds Fayette
2040: San Antonio MSA adds Blanco
2045: Austin CSA adds Killeen-Temple MSA, Kerr added to San Antonio MSA outright
2050: San Antonio MSA adds Gonzales
2055: Austin and Killeen-Temple are merged into a single MSA with two divisions
2060: Austin-San Antonio-Killeen CSA created

Within thirty years after that (outside of most of our lives), they’ll likely be a single built up area. Hopefully not. Hopefully growth slows.
Population could rather conservatively be 12 million plus at that point. Of course a lot can happen over the next seven decades.
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