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  #41  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2008, 9:55 AM
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^but we would have run into the same problems as the fast cats with cost overruns and no warranty. by hiring a private company to make them we got gaurantees on price and delivery date and performance warranties.



there were multiple problems with the fast cats that made them useless in the georgia straight... it's 2 am i don't remember them all, but it had to do with the type of engine sucking in logs and the double hull not working (because the waters are too choppy?)

maybe the 60 million dollar offer people realized nobody else was trying to buy them so they lowered their offer.... i can't imagine a fiscally conservative government purposely throwing away 40 million dollars....
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  #42  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2008, 3:38 PM
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^ for the fast cats to be cost effective, they needed a longer route too.
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  #43  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 12:02 AM
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well this was due to the pressure that was put on by the Liberals and Canwest Global led by Mr Kieth....

the fact of the matter was that the LIBERALS did get a bid YET they auctioned it for LESS... IT WAS THIS GOVERNMENT WHO DID NOT PREVIOUS.....

They were sold for 19.4 million WHEN GORDO AND COMPANY HAD AN OFFER FOR $ 60 MILLION FROM THE SAME BUYER!


secondly, any sense in GORDO could have modified them ( say with a small engine or something) and they could have been sailing again
that makes no sense Rav-Man, why would the The Liberals throw away 40 million to make a point when that point had already been made. The point was made when the citizens of BC resoundingly voted out the NDP.
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  #44  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 12:21 AM
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^^ A political point as I said before
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2003/...ies030325.html
Quote:
"Just before Christmas there was an offer on the table for $60 million, so clearly the minister threw an awful lot of money out the door here yesterday on behalf of the taxpayers — that I find very troubling," said George McPherson.
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  #45  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 12:25 AM
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You're quoting a union boss as a definitive soure? You've got to be kidding me.

Also your news story just highlights how the ferries were auctioned off to The Washington Marine Group... Im not sure if you are familiar with how an auction works... but most often the highest bid wins.

Clearly no one wanted to pay more for those monstrocities. The fact that they are still on a dry dock in North vancouver speaks volumes to the ineptitude that went into their design.
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  #46  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 12:56 AM
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^^ Apparently, you aren't clear how an auction works. It has a little something called a reserve...and that is set to a reasonable level. I didn't write the article, CBC did.

Guess how many times Gordon Campell has lied? I would personally believe anybody more than him, especially someone who was elected to be a union boss (unlike a political leader who doesn't have to do anything they promise to stay in their position).
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  #47  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 3:27 AM
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Province won't bail out troubled ferries: Falcon
By Andrew MacLeod
November 28, 2008 08:50 am

Transportation minister Kevin Falcon said there will be no extra money for B.C. Ferries, despite second quarter results showing the government-owned company is bleeding riders and money.

In the sixth months ended September 30, passenger traffic was down 5.3 percent from the same period last year and vehicle traffic was down 6.1 percent. Net earnings for the six-month period were $62.1 million, down $13.3 million from 2007.

“Not too surprising,” said Falcon, reacting to the numbers. B.C. Ferries is caught in the general economic slowdown, he said.

In October Premier Gordon Campbell announced a $20 million subsidy to B.C. Ferries to reduce fares and restore service levels for two months.

“It's one of the reasons we want to provide that 33 percent discount for December and January, give a shot in the arm to the island communities and hopefully encourage families to link up over the holiday period while we wait for the balance of the fuel surcharge to come off.”

A chart on the B.C. Ferry Commission's website shows the subsidy will briefly bring fares down to 2003 levels before they shoot up again.

Ferry riders should not expect further subsidies, Falcon said. “There's not any intention to be able to keep that going, especially given the economic circumstances,” he said. “I honestly think there's an affordability issue. We already . . . provide $150 million a year to keep B.C. Ferries fares affordable.”

With decreased earnings, a drop in traffic and interest costs rising, B.C. Ferries is in serious trouble, said NDP ferries critic Gary Coons. “It's a pretty grim tale out there,” he said. “It's looking like a perfect storm for the government.”

The public needs to see the government doing more to protect the service, he said. “Ever since the privatization model came in, the Premier has had no accountability for the file. They've had no scrutiny at all and the public deserves answers.”
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  #48  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 5:03 AM
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I think ravman is actually Carole James......WOW Carole! You sure have a-lot of free time on your hands......hobby anyone?
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  #49  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth View Post
I think ravman is actually Carole James......WOW Carole! You sure have a-lot of free time on your hands......hobby anyone?
wow...Wrong AGAIN!

though i wish i were the leader of the BC NDP.... BUT i was not voting age when she got elected leader so meh... ill wait trust me if and when i get that job, you will be like that guy is Ravman....
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  #50  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2008, 10:11 AM
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I always assumed Ravman was a middle aged former logger. I don't know why
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  #51  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2008, 9:21 AM
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I always assumed Ravman was a middle aged former logger. I don't know why
well if it helps you age.... i voted for the FIRST TIME EVER for the federal election.... though you all know who i voted for anyway so yeah
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  #52  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2008, 3:42 PM
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I always assumed Ravman was a middle aged former logger. I don't know why
hahaha i just spat my coffee out at that.
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  #53  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:03 AM
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BC's Noisy New German Ferries

BC's Noisy New German Ferries

Some call new C-class ferries 'Coastal Thunder.'
Louder than previous models, they rattle some coastal residents' homes.

By Andrew MacLeod
Published: December 15, 2008

TheTyee.ca

Eleven of 36 households surveyed through the Departure Bay Neighbourhood Association said they were disturbed by noise from the new ferries.

Kelly Franklin, who lives in the area south of Nanaimo, circulated the survey last April among his neighbours, some of whom live as much as a couple kilometres from the terminal. He shared the results with B.C. Ferries, he said, but has not previously released them publicly.

Franklin provided a summary of people's comments to the Tyee, but with names and other identifying information removed.

Noise and vibration, along with fuel consumption, are problems related to what may be design flaws with the three new vessels, bought from German shipyard Flensburger Schiffbau Gesellschaft at a total project cost of $542 million.

The ships, the last of which was put into service in November for no more than two afternoons a week, have been spending more time at the dock than carrying passengers. B.C. Ferries is yet to fully explain why.

'Rumble keeps me up'

"Yes, the noise from the new ferry disturbs me, but only when it is in port," wrote one neighbour. "The morning rumble wakes me up and the evening rumble keeps me up; I recently travelled on the first sailing and the vibration was unbelievable in the boat."

The noise level while the boats were moving had improved, the person wrote. "I am grateful as our whole house vibrated when they came in. I had a concern about the disturbance of the soil stability but that issue doesn't seem to be an issue now."

"The new ferries are definitely much louder than the old ones," wrote another respondent who lives a kilometre from the terminal. "We can at times feel vibrations from the engines that make our house doors rattle and on one occasion -- while the ferry was revving up its engines as it sat at the dock -- the noise was almost as loud as that of a helicopter."

Yet another wrote that the "Coastal Thunder" coming and going was "turning the entire Departure Bay basin into an industrial noise area."

Other respondents said the noise did not bother them and they didn't think people should complain. "We would be unhappy if complaints from our neighbourhood association were to cause the new ferries to be moved to another route so please proceed with caution," wrote one.

After Franklin forwarded all the comments to B.C. Ferries, he said, the company sent technicians to measure noise, but failed to tell residents what they found. "I've never heard back from them. I've never heard from them at all." The noise continues, he said.

High prop can cause noise: engineer

B.C. Ferries has said it is working on ways to reduce the noise and vibration from the ships. In the summer the company reportedly added new mufflers to the engines on the Coastal Celebration and said that helped enough that they would be doing the same with all three.

Then a few weeks ago, The Tyee reported, the company performed an unusual test using as many as 18 gravel trucks to weigh down one of the vessels. The company is yet to say whether the full load helped. Nor is it clear how adding weight permanently to the vessels would affect fuel consumption should the company decide to do that.

The test points to the suspicion that the noise and vibrations are related to how high the ships sit in the water.

It's a theory confirmed by Stefan Krueger, an engineering professor at Hamburg University of Technology, who helped design the new ferries. When the ships are at berth, the propeller may draw some air, said Krueger in an e-mail. It is "absolutely harmless for the ship or the propeller, but it can cause some noise," he wrote.

Once loaded and underway, the propellers will be "sufficiently submerged" to prevent the problem, he said.

In an essay on the design of the new ferries, Krueger and two co-authors describe how the propulsion system was chosen.

They chose "a propeller diameter as large as reasonably possible," arriving at five metres. They based the size on the maximum draft of the ships, the amount of the hull that would be under the water line when fully loaded. That maximum draft is 5.75 metres.

Twenty centimetres below

When the ship is unloaded, however, the blades come much closer to the surface. According to one analysis, when unloaded, the draft is just 5.2 metres, so the blades would be within 20 centimetres of the surface.

Or as an FSG employee, Markus Brinkmann, put it participating in a web forum discussion of the Tyee's first article on the design problems with the ferries. "When the Coastals are in the dock, the propellers suck air -- yes, no doubt." It won't happen while they're moving, he said.

It is also key that the propellers turn at a constant speed of 127 revolutions per minute, even when docked. Krueger said in an e-mail that he does not consider a long idling time "normal or useful, because of the related fuel consumption." He did not, however, respond to a further e-mail asking how long would be needed to shut down the ship and start it back up again.

And as neighbours of the ferry terminals like Franklin in Nanaimo know well, the ships on the major routes spend a significant amount of time empty at the dock. They are there when they start in the morning, when they shut down at night and for 25 or 30 minutes while unloading and reloading between hour and a half crossings.

The ships came with a two-year warranty and FSG had to meet standards for noise, vibration, speed and fuel consumption or B.C. Ferries could have rejected them. Officials from both companies have said the ships met all specifications during sea trials.

Altogether the problem appears bigger than B.C. Ferries officials are admitting, Franklin said. "I think there is quite a fiasco here. They didn't do their due diligence with this design."

And as more than one ship builder said in background interviews, if the problems with the new ferries were easy to fix, they would have been fixed by now.
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  #54  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:26 AM
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You are highlighting quotes from a person who lives in a neighbourhood in Naniamo complaining about ferry noise as though they came from an educated source.

I think I speak for almost everyone here when I ask you to stop this nonsense.

Until you have some quotes from an actual authority on the subject, not some local nut/NDP ferries critic (former local nut)/union boss(professional nut) please dont waste the internet's bandwith with this garbage.

Also The Tyee ≠ real newspaper.
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  #55  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
You are highlighting quotes from a person who lives in a neighbourhood in Naniamo complaining about ferry noise as though they came from an educated source.

I think I speak for almost everyone here when I ask you to stop this nonsense.

Until you have some quotes from an actual authority on the subject, not some local nut/NDP ferries critic (former local nut)/union boss(professional nut) please dont waste the internet's bandwith with this garbage.

Also The Tyee ≠ real newspaper.
hear hear! I agree!
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  #56  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:34 AM
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Add my name to that list for ravman to stop this rubbish.
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  #57  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:39 AM
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The Tyee:

Quote:
Eleven of 36 households surveyed through the Departure Bay Neighbourhood Association said they were disturbed by noise from the new ferries.

Kelly Franklin, who lives in the area south of Nanaimo, circulated the survey last April among his neighbours
Actually, Departure Bay is situate in central Nanaimo.

Leftcoaster:

Quote:
The Tyee ≠ real newspaper.
How did you come to that conclusion?
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  #58  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 10:15 AM
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Add my name to that list for ravman to stop this rubbish.
The Tyee is a newspaper... so it may not provide the propoganda that Canwest provides.... it still is a source that can be stated here... so let me guess... No tyee... No Georgia strait... any other local newspapers that are out there... other than Canwest global? none POINT TAKEN


getting on with the facts... these ferries are rubbish and thats the fact. LIKE IT OR NOT.... the fact of the matter remains is that there are problems and that is what is being presented here.... so if there was a report out yesterday stating that these vessels are the best ships that have even sailed.... i am sure you "Liberals" would have been all over it
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  #59  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ravman View Post
The Tyee is a newspaper... so it may not provide the propoganda that Canwest provides.... it still is a source that can be stated here... so let me guess... No tyee... No Georgia strait... any other local newspapers that are out there... other than Canwest global? none POINT TAKEN


getting on with the facts... these ferries are rubbish and thats the fact. LIKE IT OR NOT.... the fact of the matter remains is that there are problems and that is what is being presented here.... so if there was a report out yesterday stating that these vessels are the best ships that have even sailed.... i am sure you "Liberals" would have been all over it
The main problem people have with you is how you bring a partisan view to every single issue. Literally, on every issue....and you're the only one here that does that. You see things only in black and white, or orange and blue in this case (does that ring a bell? US politics? George W. Bush dividing up the nation into red and blue on every single issue?). You take a dive at pointing figures immediately on everything. It's rather pathetic and annoying.....even sickening since you seem so pre-occupied with that, and even the other NDP supporters here in this forum see it. While we're making real discussions, you're desperately looking for a scandal under every pot and plant.

If I remember correctly, the Spirit class vessels also had similar problems in their first year of operation. And don't forget about the fast cats. I'm not concerned about the Coastal class vessels at all considering the problems incurred, whether minor or major, are covered entirely by the manufacturer's warranty.


And no, the Tyee is not a real newspaper.....while Canwest and others are part of the mainstream media. The Tyee leans quite far on the left as an NDP voice box while Canwest and others are centrist (Sun, Global BC) to right (Province, Global BC) leaning and often provide a much more balanced and broad story than the propaganda pieces written by ex-NDP members and affiliates on the Tyee. Every piece on that website is more of an editorial rather than an actual news article.....and their recent article, "A Prius for Every Student".....just, wow.

Hell, not long ago you were even going as far as posting NDP news bulletins here.

Last edited by mr.x; Dec 16, 2008 at 11:14 AM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2008, 12:06 PM
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Ravman, the last article you posted wasn't as politically charged as usual but I'd like to take this opportunity to let you know that you need to stop putting a political slant on everything you can find. Politics need to remain in the Politics subforum. I don't mind if you say "GO CAROL GO" and such from time to time as others do for Gordo/Falcon but you need to take things down a notch, especially when it comes to the odd political rant which you've been known to issue.

I don't care what paper you post articles from or even if they say something bad about a Liberal-initiated project - just don't go to the effort to emphasize the political aspects. It's one thing if you post an article about the ferries not working quite right but you have shown earlier in this thread that you're doing it to make a political statement. If you plan to do such things in the future, do it out of genuine concern for our province's welfare rather then use it for political means. After all it is not like the NDP have a perfect track record, especially when it comes to ferries.

With all that said, if you want to make a BC Ferries specific thread in the Politics sub-forum be my guest.

You're a great contributor otherwise and I don't want to discourage you from continuing that, but please try to save all political discourse for the Politics sub-forum. Thank you.

And that goes for the rest of you as well.
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