HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2061  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:50 AM
koops65's Avatar
koops65 koops65 is offline
Intergalactic Barfly
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Quarks Bar
Posts: 3,986
Thanks Chad... and I just uploaded a drawing of the Calgary Oxford...
__________________
My Diagram: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=52344624
A proud member of the former Airborne Regiment, 87-88
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2062  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 1:13 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 15,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
It's funny, because in every discussion we've had about this topic, the majority of people have agreed with me. I don't care what is considered official, I will post how I want to post. Flag poles and decorative antennae are not part of the structure of a building and I'm not going to treat them as such.

I can, however, alter my language to say "roof height" and "spire height" any time I make a comparison in the future. For Koops' sake
You're still missing the point. It's not about your preference or whoever agrees with you. It's about you confusing things. Your as bad as Caltrane in this regard but, for different reasons. In any case, the issue is done by you finally saying you will state roof height when you post something as the world around you and this very thread accepts spires as part of a building's height. I will repeat that "spire height" is not the default setting in the database.
__________________
55 built and 27 under construction for a total of 82 towers over 150 metres.

Last edited by Ramako; Oct 16, 2014 at 1:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2063  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 1:35 PM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 8,303
^ I was actually under the impression that skyscraper gurus / record trackers generally don't count spires.

I'm partial to not counting them. It just seems like cheating to make a building taller by putting a giant stick on top of it... But on the other hand sometimes spires can be a core part of a building's architecture.

My vote: Evaluate on a case-by-case basis. (That's the solution to pretty much everything IMO)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2064  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 1:57 PM
Mongo62 Mongo62 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
^ I was actually under the impression that skyscraper gurus / record trackers generally don't count spires.

I'm partial to not counting them. It just seems like cheating to make a building taller by putting a giant stick on top of it... But on the other hand sometimes spires can be a core part of a building's architecture.

My vote: Evaluate on a case-by-case basis. (That's the solution to pretty much everything IMO)
Here is an example:



The New York Times tower is considered a supertall, and is officially taller than First Canadian Place (which is not a supertall). But ask any person which of these two buildings is taller, and you will get the "wrong" answer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2065  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 2:14 PM
SaskScraper SaskScraper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongo62 View Post
Here is an example:

The New York Times tower is considered a supertall, and is officially taller than First Canadian Place (which is not a supertall). But ask any person which of these two buildings is taller, and you will get the "wrong" answer.
^^I'm also of the same opinion on this, spires or any type of hood ornament doesn't make me think the building is any taller than the building really is..Ever since Petronas towers being declared 'world's tallest' back in the day, I've thought this way. Otherwise First Canada Place should just bolt a filing cabinet to the roof to make it a 'supertall' & call it a day..
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2066  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 2:42 PM
travis3000's Avatar
travis3000 travis3000 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,154
I don't think skinny little antennas should count, but buildings like Trump and Canada Trust Tower don't have these... they have unique spires which have width and add to the building. Looking 50km away one can see the spire on Trump and TD (with the logo). These are integral parts of the tower, both host lighting features, and would totally change the look of the tower if they weren't there. So 100% they should count. And in the official book of skyscrapers they do thankfully.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2067  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 2:54 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 15,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
^ I was actually under the impression that skyscraper gurus / record trackers generally don't count spires.

I'm partial to not counting them. It just seems like cheating to make a building taller by putting a giant stick on top of it... But on the other hand sometimes spires can be a core part of a building's architecture.

My vote: Evaluate on a case-by-case basis. (That's the solution to pretty much everything IMO)
Case by case doesn't work. There's need to be a constant to make a comparable. In this case, it was determined that spires as an architectural element are to be included and antenna which is largely third party equipment is not. The cost and/or thickness of such a feature is irrelevant. Every list of the world's tallest reflects that decision.

Chicago has a huge role to play in the development of SSP and any other database. Marshall Gerometta's Hot 500 did start it all. There was a huge uproar back when Petronas topped Sears however, I think you will now find acceptance of how things are track eventhough they still adamantly disagree with it. I don't quite understand the whole cheater thing. I do understand the passion people have. I really don't take issue with people preferring roof height however, if you are going to make a claim, "this would be the 4th tallest in the nation" using roof height than you need to say it as such. It's a lie otherwise.
__________________
55 built and 27 under construction for a total of 82 towers over 150 metres.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2068  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 2:57 PM
1overcosc's Avatar
1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Posts: 8,303
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis3000 View Post
I don't think skinny little antennas should count, but buildings like Trump and Canada Trust Tower don't have these... they have unique spires which have width and add to the building. Looking 50km away one can see the spire on Trump and TD (with the logo). These are integral parts of the tower, both host lighting features, and would totally change the look of the tower if they weren't there. So 100% they should count. And in the official book of skyscrapers they do thankfully.
Agreed 100%. That's why I said 'case by case basis'. For some towers it makes sense to count the spire, for some it really doesn't. I've always been a fan of balancing tests as opposed to hard rules, and for everything in life really, not just skyscrapers. Its just the way I think.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2069  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 3:14 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 15,350
That's a slippery slope to assign an aesthetic value to height as everyone has their own opinion. Every building will end up with dozens of different heights neither of which will any be wrong. Take several lifetimes to "vote" on a preferred height as well.
__________________
55 built and 27 under construction for a total of 82 towers over 150 metres.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2070  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 3:29 PM
Ramako's Avatar
Ramako Ramako is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,363
I personally prefer measuring by roof, but I can see why the standard of counting spires (but not antennas is used), as it's the only way to really apply a consistent standard. Previously I would have said that a consistent standard could be applied to roof heights by defining them as the upper most enclosed area of a building, but that wouldn't capture tall parapets and fins like we see on the New York Times building, which would be silly to leave out. Additionally, take an example like the shorter Ice Condos; it's 197 metres to the top of the enclosed mechanical roof, but 202 metres to the swiss-cheese roof element. Arguably the roof element is more of an unenclosed roof than a conventional spire, but technically it's a spire. Would that count?

The more and more creative designs get, the harder and harder it becomes to make a case for roof height as a standard measure. So while I do prefer roof heights or taking things on a case-by-case basis when I make diagrams on SSP, that method is ultimately too subjective and inconsistent for official purposes, so I accept that the official methods of measurement use the standardized model of including spires.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2071  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 3:55 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 18,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by koops65 View Post
Thanks Chad... and I just uploaded a drawing of the Calgary Oxford...
Thanks for that. We're not sure yet which version is the actual one. We've heard both the 47 storey version and the 61 storey version. According to our reliable source, the 61 storey is the up to date one, but all of the renders we've been seeing say differently. So I'm not sure what to think, but I'm going to hold out hope for the taller version, once the official announcement is made by Oxford.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2072  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 4:41 PM
caltrane74's Avatar
caltrane74 caltrane74 is offline
gettin' rich!
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 33,367
thecharioteer at Urbantoronto.ca caught some of the demolition/restoration/recovery work at the Massey Tower


Some pictures



http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2014/10/...wer-condo-site

Apparently, Excavation will begin here shortly, so it will be one tower added to the 200 meters and over U/C list, but a lot of towers will be coming off including L Tower, Aura, ICE 1 and ICE 2 shortly.
__________________
Learn Here about the 200 Skyscrapers U/C in Toronto The Toronto Skyscraper Blog
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2073  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:40 PM
Dylan Leblanc's Avatar
Dylan Leblanc Dylan Leblanc is offline
Website Manager
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 8,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
So here is some updated information about Calgary's new tallest...

The render we have seen is generally accurate on design but not up to date with height.

The Oxford proposal is 61 floors and 262 meters. Making it the first office tower in the west to exceed 60 floors, and the tallest tower in the west by 15 meters. If completed by 2018, it would be the 4th tallest in Canada. Though it will likely not be completed until 2020 or 2021, which will put it at around 6th tallest in the country.
Where do you get this information from? This pic shows that there aren't much more than 47 floors



http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...95#post6770295
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2074  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:43 PM
Boris2k7's Avatar
Boris2k7 Boris2k7 is offline
Majestic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,966
It's been semi-confirmed by some insiders (both here and on CalgaryPuck) that these are likely early renderings that are roughly representative of the final design but not of the final height.
__________________
"The only thing that gets me through our winters is the knowledge that they're the only thing keeping us free of giant ass spiders." -MonkeyRonin

Flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2075  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:45 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 18,510
What he said.

which is basically what I said in my previous post






EDIT: Oh and thanks for the diagram, Koops! It looks awesome.
__________________
Strong & free

'My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.' — Jack Layton
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2076  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 5:59 PM
FrankieFlowerpot's Avatar
FrankieFlowerpot FrankieFlowerpot is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,519
Reported on UrbanToronto that One Bloor West will be designed by Foster+Partners in conjunction with localfirim Core Architects.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2077  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 6:26 PM
Bigtime's Avatar
Bigtime Bigtime is offline
Very tall. Such Scrape.
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris2k7 View Post
It's been semi-confirmed by some insiders (both here and on CalgaryPuck) that these are likely early renderings that are roughly representative of the final design but not of the final height.
Like folks working for Colliers that have already had a meeting with Oxford for them to show the project to them.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2078  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 6:33 PM
Boris2k7's Avatar
Boris2k7 Boris2k7 is offline
Majestic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,966
What I think could take Oxford from a C to a B+

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...=213638&page=6

**********************

My mockup on a few tweaks I think would make the building better (and all I have to work with on my office PC is MS Paint...).



Main changes:

1. Segment the west-facing facades each into two vertical "faces," which are at different angles (they can be innies our outies, just not flat). You can offset the roof of the next section to accommodate this.
2. Slope the roofs (another nod to Penny Lane). Changes the profile and makes the lighting more dynamic.
3. Simplify the first few storeys and "raise" the tower off the ground. Makes the ground level feel more open and airy and gives the tower 3 distinct sections (base, body, crown).
4. Increase the height.

I think these are all things which can be achieved without making any changes to the floor layouts, and would significantly elevate the stature of this tower.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepstar View Post
__________________
"The only thing that gets me through our winters is the knowledge that they're the only thing keeping us free of giant ass spiders." -MonkeyRonin

Flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2079  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 6:46 PM
WhipperSnapper's Avatar
WhipperSnapper WhipperSnapper is offline
I am the law!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Toronto+
Posts: 15,350
I think your just mucking up the design adding little tweaks here and there. It is what it is. I do like the improved base. Maybe extend the fins a bit more but, I don't see the appeal of throwing in angles for the sake of making the building appear more angular.
__________________
55 built and 27 under construction for a total of 82 towers over 150 metres.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2080  
Old Posted Oct 16, 2014, 7:41 PM
Boris2k7's Avatar
Boris2k7 Boris2k7 is offline
Majestic
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 11,966
If I can just get the height and the lobby, I'll give it a B-
__________________
"The only thing that gets me through our winters is the knowledge that they're the only thing keeping us free of giant ass spiders." -MonkeyRonin

Flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:47 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.