Connaught Tower | 305m | 100 storey | Proposed

[raisethehammer]

some great comments on here....my two cents - I don't think this will start a trend to supertalls in Hamilton.
In fact, I'm willing to bet that if he can pull off a 70-80 storey tower it will forever remain the city's tallest...although, never say never I guess.

The comment about incremental change is a good one. And it's what we've been seeing downtown in recent years. As much as Stinson can make comments like "all these small projects and improvements aren't getting it done" he needs to realize that without them, he wouldn't even be looking here right now. The past 5-7 years has seen a lot of great changes downtown.
He is right about bigger ideas such as the horrendous street design on King and Main. and I see where he's coming from with a huge tower and associated elements really being a catalyst.
If he's successsful, I could see other TO condo developers coming to town to do 20-50 storey condos. No reason why not. I've always believed that day would come.

Here's a possible dream scenario for Hamilton:
1. NHL at Copps
2. LRT
3. Sapphire Tower

This city would change forever.

[raisethehammer]

someone mentioned that this would go into the supertalls proposals.
I can't seem to find it there. Any hints??

[RePinion]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Here's a possible dream scenario for Hamilton:
1. NHL at Copps
2. LRT
3. Sapphire Tower

This city would change forever.

These three things would certainly seal the deal for Hamilton's revival. Hope I see them all in my life time.

[DC83]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

Here's a possible dream scenario for Hamilton:
1. NHL at Copps
2. LRT
3. Sapphire Tower

This city would change forever.

I agree, #1 & #2 would certainly speed up the revival. To be honest, I don't really care if Sapphire is ever built at 80 or 70 or 50 storeys. IMO, we need to fix up and fill up what we already have before creating a supertall that could possibly steal tenants away from infill projects such as the possible redevelopment of the Federal Bldg, or Trebble Hall or any other historic building.

Before Toronto started with these mega-condo projects, they concentrated on infil which is what Montréal is currently doing as well. Fill in what we have, then worry about mega-condo projects. This way we wont lose our heritage buildings and therefor be able to keep that 'Hamilton Charm' some people move here for.

So MY dream scenerio would be:

1) Infill projects (such as the Connaught)
2) LRT and resulting two-way conversions
3) NHL team @ Copps

I think this will create a crazy demand for urban living in this city, THEN we can start working on mega-condos! ...imo anyway...

[LikeHamilton]

A few comments from what I have read here.

I have friends who live on the other side of Toronto in Durham region. One works local and the other takes the GO train to T.O. A few times they have come this way by GO and they are amazed how much quicker (and cheaper) it is to go from downtown T.O. to Hamilton than it is going the other way. And housing being cheaper they would love to move this way and downsize. But only one has a job that is transferable. But these are the type of persons that would be perfect to convince to move to downtown Hamilton.

Cost of condos maybe close to the same as in T.O. but what you get is not. I know people living right downtown T.O and near the Rogers Centre and the ACC and they are paying (and they are nuts!) $3000.00 a month for a 600 sq ft apartment. I tell them to move here and get way more for there money.

As to compact apartments in the Connaught, I will wait until and see the floor plans first. The floors are wide open and they can make them any size they want.

As to cost of condo, there are a lot of people with money or think they have money. The fact is they are selling dozens if not 100’s of homes each week in this area costing over $300,000. There are subdivisions with hundreds of new homes that will sell out in months. Like I said, one area in Ancaster there are 100 new lots with homes starting at $500,000 and going to over $1 million. They sold 12 before advertising and expect to be sold out by summer. Harry just has to advertise right and convince just some of these people from around here and other place and he will fill a building. And as soon as it looks like it is the trendy thing to do, then it will become a feeding frenzy and we will see more and more development downtown. Maybe even a boomtown.

[SteelTown]

To me if Stinson does build an 80 storey condo tower it'll take a LONG time before someone has the guts to top it. I view this as Hamilton's possible version of a CN Tower (I think the globe at the top has an observation deck), expect it's liveable.

Imagine a restaurant at the top and having the view of Toronto, Niagara Falls, Buffalo and probably could see Cleveland faintly on a clear day.

[RePinion]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

A few comments from what I have read here.

I have friends who live on the other side of Toronto in Durham region. One works local and the other takes the GO train to T.O. A few times they have come this way by GO and they are amazed how much quicker (and cheaper) it is to go from downtown T.O. to Hamilton than it is going the other way. And housing being cheaper they would love to move this way and downsize. But only one has a job that is transferable. But these are the type of persons that would be perfect to convince to move to downtown Hamilton.

Cost of condos maybe close to the same as in T.O. but what you get is not. I know people living right downtown T.O and near the Rogers Centre and the ACC and they are paying (and they are nuts!) $3000.00 a month for a 600 sq ft apartment. I tell them to move here and get way more for there money.

As to compact apartments in the Connaught, I will wait until and see the floor plans first. The floors are wide open and they can make them any size they want.

As to cost of condo, there are a lot of people with money or think they have money. The fact is they are selling dozens if not 100’s of homes each week in this area costing over $300,000. There are subdivisions with hundreds of new homes that will sell out in months. Like I said, one area in Ancaster there are 100 new lots with homes starting at $500,000 and going to over $1 million. They sold 12 before advertising and expect to be sold out by summer. Harry just has to advertise right and convince just some of these people from around here and other place and he will fill a building. And as soon as it looks like it is the trendy thing to do, then it will become a feeding frenzy and we will see more and more development downtown. Maybe even a boomtown.

$3000 a month for a 600 sq. ft condo in Toronto is absurd. Your friend is getting hopelessly screwed. My sister and her boyfriend are renting a 750 sq ft 1+den condo in a fairly high end building around Bloor and Yonge for $1550/month. I did a lot of the searching for them on Viewit, Craigslist, the Star etc. and I know that even $1550 is slightly above the norm for such a unit (but the location is one of the most desirable in the city, and certainly more expensive than around the ACC where you could knock probably $150 of the amount I note above).

I saw that they were trying to rent out small units in the Chateau Royale for $1200 and up a while back. That's ridiculous. My conclusion is that Hamilton condos are quite overpriced.

The people who are moving into the expensive homes in Ancaster, etc. are usually families who would never even consider moving into a condo and for good reason. Unlike cities such as New York and Chicago, our condos and apartments are simply not designed for family living. The Canadian paradigm has always been to cram as many tiny units into a tower as possible, Stinson being no exception.

[raisethehammer]

I thought some of you computer geeks would have slapped together a few views of Sapphire on the skyline by now....I'm itching to see a daytime perspective from Sam Lawrence area. If anyone's got time......lol

[DC83]

^^ Don't forget, RePinion, ontop of one's mortagage, you also have to pay those rediculous condo fees! And depending on the amenities the building offers, they can be quite high!

$3000/mth is not at all absurd for Toronto.

[SteelTown]

I can imagine the condo fee for Phase I will be higher than typical. As these condos will include typical hotel service like housekeeping and a nice mint chocolate on the top of the pillow, mmmmm me wanna get a unit! lol

[RePinion]

I maintain that $3000/month is absurd. If it is possible to rent a larger unit for $1550 (and I KNOW that it is) this will include the condo fees and whatever mortgage payments must be incurred by the owner. In almost all cases of condo rentals, the unit is 100% financed by small time investors who then turn over the leasing of the unit to a property management firm which also takes a percentage fee. This means that any given price to rent a condo - $1550 say - must include the condo fees (the average being about $300-500 for a unit of my sister's size), the mortgage payments (which, given that most of these units are 100% financed, are quite high), the fee to the property manager (upwards of 10%), and presumably a small margin for profit.

Unless you're paying an absolutely usurious interest rate on your mortgage, or your condo is so poorly managed that your maintenance fees run into the thousands of dollars (unheard of), $3000 per month for a 600 sq. ft. condo is unrealistic.

[RePinion]

$3000/month for a 1200 sq. ft. luxury condo in Rosedale or Forest Hill on the other hand would not be ridiculous at all.

[DC83]

^^ You should catch up on your HGTV, RePinion. Esp the real estate shows. You'll then see that these prices are not unheard of. Seriously. It's Toronto, dude! People pay tens-of-thousands of dollars to buy parking spots! Who would have thought that parking spots would be a hot real estate ticket?

But ya, it all depends on where you're living. You wont likely pay $3000/mth if you're living in an older condo bldg at say Don Mills/Lawrence, but most certainly for a brand new bldg at Bloor/Jarvis!

There's so many condos in Toronto, developpers have to be creative... so they are marketing high end, luxury suites with tons of on-site amenities. And these units are indeed THAT expensive. It just depends on one's lifestyle.

[RePinion]

I still respectfully disagree. Brand new condos downtown are still regularly marketed in the 200's.

We're not talking about the sort of luxury suites which come with sub-zero appliances, mahogany flooring and vaulted ceilings (such as are being built on Charles Street right now). We're talking about a 600 sq. ft. basic starter home (since there really are no luxury buildings in the ACC area).

Anyway, there's not much point in going on about this any longer, I realize ...

[markbarbera]

Boy, of all the weeks to book for a vacation, I chose the week of this big announcement and miss all the hoopla! Just getting caught up on all the posts here.

Here are a few comments:

Hamilton should welcome a new 'wow' tower. I especially like how it is being planted on an empty lot, and is complementing a renovated Royal Connaught. It'll be nice to have at least one gap-tooth filled on Main.

The new condo tower will be the dividing rod on how ready the Hamilton condo market is for new largescale projects, as opposed to retrofits that currently define the downtown condo market. Stinson will easily be able to scale the height of the building to meet market demand. Personally I am hoping for full height on this, and if demand is strong enough to support its full height, then this will also be a lightning rod for other developments in the area. This won't be the first of a series of 80-floor condos, but it could be the highlight on a skyline of several new 30-40 floor buildings in close proximity.

Should this take off, the BRT vs LRT arguement should become moot. Development of this intensity will require nothing less than LRT to support the influx of bodies in the downtown core. 80 floors of 8-12 units drops about 2000 new residents downtown.

[SteelTown]

Stinson can always scale down. First open a Sales Office with the proposed 80 storey and depending on the number of demand/sales see if 80 storey is acceptable if not they can scale it down to the demend based from the Sales Office. Stinson himself wants to aim high.

[DC83]

^^ Exactly, Steeltown. I believe that's how Trump did it for his bldg in TO.

[SteelTown]

That's exactly what Trump did. The demand wasn't strong enough for the original proposed I think it was 70 storey? So Trump scaled it down. Now those units are EXPENSIVE. Probably the $3000/month you guys were talking about. Think that's the main reason why the demand wasn't strong.

I should say "Think that's the main reason why the demand wasn't strong ENOUGH" Obviously there was a strong demand but it wasn't enough.

[flar]

$3000/mo is probably not that uncommon. My cousin pays $1650 for a tiny bachelor sized condo near Yonge and Bloor.

[raisethehammer]

I agree completely MarkBarbera.
I really believe that Main St from Queen to Catharine could support half a dozen towers in the 40+ storey range.
Only time will tell.