Austin would be ill-advised to ban plastic bags

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by JAM

Are you sure? Why don't people have a right to use plastic bags? They aren't hurting me? Or are they? What about smokers who raise medical costs because of their poor health, same goes for people who don't exercise regularly. What about cyclist and no helmets raising insurance rates. Where does it start and where does it end?

The plastic bag ban is a contraversial one and its not quite on the same lvl as a smoking ban. While I can see your points, I dont mind the plastic bag ban.

[KevinFromTexas]

Hey, if someone wants some plastic bags, we have tons. I hate them. I usually bag them up in a big bag and take them back to HEB. I hate having them sit around waiting, though.

As for health issues, they absolutely are a health hazard. They don't biodegrade, and just end up breaking down from sun light into smaller pieces that fish end up eating, the same fish that we eat. And plus, there are some nasty side effects to certain plastics getting into your body. I think if everyone knew what exactly that stuff does to their body, everyone would be banning them personally.

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

And you think the smoking ban is a bad thing for Austin?

Yes I do think it is.

Tell that to people who don't want to get cancer by breathing the air in a room full of smokers.

Who's holding the gun forcing those people to hang around smokers?

I think the Smoking ban is needed.

That's cool. I would disagree.

People have a right to smoke and thats fine if that is their choice but it is not the choice of others who don't smoke to breathe in their second hand smoke.

And why shouldn't businesses have that same choice?

Smoking does affect your surroundings and to be inside a building and smoke basically causes everybody in that area to breath the same smoke.

Don't you think that's up to the person and the business and not a small group of people passing a ban on all businesses?

I don't see that is an attack on the smokers personal freedom because going to a designated smoking area is not a big deal and if its that much of an effort for them to smoke in a designated smoking area or outside then maybe they should consider quitting.

I see it as more of an attack on small businesses. I know before the ban there were several businesses that had smoking locations where smokers could smoke inside and it wouldn't bother other customers. No a days you see businesses getting around it by having out door areas. That to me is an unintended consequence.

Im sorry but this does get to me and I have a family member who has to deal health problems because of the effects of second hand smoke, people get sick and die from second hand smoke but oh, lets get rid of the ban because it infringes on personal freedoms?

I'm sorry to hear that about your family member. But what's next? A ban in the home to avoid children getting second hand smoke?

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Hey, if someone wants some plastic bags, we have tons. I hate them. I usually bag them up in a big bag and take them back to HEB. I hate having them sit around waiting, though.

As for health issues, they absolutely are a health hazard. They don't biodegrade, and just end up breaking down from sun light into smaller pieces that fish end up eating, the same fish that we eat. And plus, there are some nasty side effects to certain plastics getting into your body. I think if everyone knew what exactly that stuff does to their body, everyone would be banning them personally.

I see this as an opportunity for a business to get started to deal with the bags instead of the government doing something about it. Besides if they were such a huge problem don't you think that the market would have done something about it by now?

[nixcity]

^Sounds like you'll be voting for Ron Paul....yes, and you can thank the market for taking on global climate change (we are at least 30 years late on this, the "green" business model has just started to make a difference, however minimal at that), everything having to do with the health industry, we can that the market for greed, plain and simple, its all about making money, whether or not it is best for the people or not. THUS THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IN SOOO MANY MATTERS!!

[nixcity]

Although I will say I agree that businesses should have had the right to opt out of the smoking ban, although to be honest I think most of them would have gone ahead and done it anyway,,,,don't know if u've been up here recently but businesses are doing very well over all.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by paulsjv

Who's holding the gun forcing those people to hang around smokers?

my honest opinion... i think that's a very silly way of rationalizing because smoke is technically infringing on my liberties when it comes in my way. what if the person keeps following me around smoking that cigarette... i mean, it's a free country and that person could very well do that. right? and admittedly it's a terrible and silly analogy, because who would do that anyways? but this could very well happen when, say, there's a place you really like going to but without the smoking ban, all the smokers in a room could really affect my enjoyment, because as you say, no one is holding a gun to my head to stay so i probably won't go to that place anymore. thus it ruins my enjoyment.... and if all my favorite places turn out to allow smoking..... i mean, really, i could go on. it's not necessary to make it that complicated. smoking isn't necessary and no one should be affected by it period.... especially when there are people who don't enjoy the smoke.

who cares for smoke? why would anyone protect smoke more than someone's lungs? that's just silly. and i think even most smokers would agree with me that the smoking ban is just really not a law that anyone should even dwell on too much. i just don't see any logical reason to defend smoke. at all. period. fin. just as much as the plastic bag ban. who cares for plastic bags? no biggie!


and another thing about local business and the not smoking bit. i could be wrong and i might need to confirm this, but the smoking ban really isn't enforced. if a cop sees you in a place smoking he will not tell you anything, nor will the venue get a citation. i was at lovejoys a few years back and a friend of ours, who is a cop, was there with us. there were a lot of people there smoking. and we asked our friend, the cop, if they could get cited and he said, just what i told you. it's still technically up to the businesses and if the businesses ask the cop to take care of it, they will certainly respond and could kick him out or fine the smoker. but of course, i might have it a bit distorted. i'm just saying this because it really isn't like some "conspiracy" aimed against businesses at all.

[JAM]

They should ban video games - the nations #1 contribution to obesity, right behind fast food and high fructose sugar. In my day, there was one chubby kid in the class and unfortunately he was made fun of. Nowadays, he would be considered normal.

[migol24]

Originally Posted by JAM

They should ban video games - the nations #1 contribution to obesity, right behind fast food and high fructose sugar. In my day, there was one chubby kid in the class and unfortunately he was made fun of. Nowadays, he would be considered normal.

that's not infringing on my rights so why should they? i really don't care. it's up to the person if they wanna be lazy and play video games all day, but if its forcing me to do it.. then yeah, there should be a law implemented from me being forced to play video games all day and be lazy and grow fat. just like smoke. smoke literally travels and screws with the oxygen that i'm breathing. that is legitimate infringement on my inalienable rights to breathe my god-given oxygen. why would anybody care to ban video games anyways? they're fun. plastic bags aren't. cigarettes aren't either. it's just useless to spend time analyzing if the gov't has any say on the issue. at least, i think so... but i dunno.

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by JAM

They should ban video games - the nations #1 contribution to obesity, right behind fast food and high fructose sugar. In my day, there was one chubby kid in the class and unfortunately he was made fun of. Nowadays, he would be considered normal.

What's interesting about high fructose corn syrup is that without the subsidies on corn you probably would have never gotten high fructose corn syrup as it would have been too expensive to make!

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by nixcity

^Sounds like you'll be voting for Ron Paul....yes, and you can thank the market for taking on global climate change (we are at least 30 years late on this, the "green" business model has just started to make a difference, however minimal at that), everything having to do with the health industry, we can that the market for greed, plain and simple, its all about making money, whether or not it is best for the people or not. THUS THE NEED FOR GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IN SOOO MANY MATTERS!!

One of the positive things about greed is that it moves the market forward. If it wasn't for greed we wouldn't have innovation. Why would anyone do it if they never got anything for it?

IMO too much government is the problem. I could cite a gazillion things. But hey this is a skyscraper forum not a politics forum so anyway.

[nixcity]

^Yea, not all subsidies are good, and yes high fructose corn syrup is the devil. I think JAM was kind of joking but to be honest where are the parents in all this???You can see how poor education in this country is playing out....how could a parent let their kid play 6-8 hours of video games every day, eat crap food every day, and not get out and enjoy being a kid?????

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by migol24

my honest opinion... i think that's a very silly way of rationalizing because smoke is technically infringing on my liberties when it comes in my way. what if the person keeps following me around smoking that cigarette... i mean, it's a free country and that person could very well do that. right? and admittedly it's a terrible and silly analogy, because who would do that anyways? but this could very well happen when, say, there's a place you really like going to but without the smoking ban, all the smokers in a room could really affect my enjoyment, because as you say, no one is holding a gun to my head to stay so i probably won't go to that place anymore. thus it ruins my enjoyment.... and if all my favorite places turn out to allow smoking..... i mean, really, i could go on. it's not necessary to make it that complicated. smoking isn't necessary and no one should be affected by it period.... especially when there are people who don't enjoy the smoke.

And this happens how much? Technically a smoker could follow you around outside and do this to you right now. Has it happened? I would put money on no. So you're right it is a terrible and silly analogy.

Maybe instead of lobbying for government intervention into a private business maybe talking to the business about it would help? Get a movement going and a boycot! Open your own business that is smoke free. Find something else to do where smokers aren't around. There's a lot you could do and the business that allows smoking loses out on those who won't be visiting their business due to the smoke.

who cares for smoke? why would anyone protect smoke more than someone's lungs? that's just silly. and i think even most smokers would agree with me that the smoking ban is just really not a law that anyone should even dwell on too much. i just don't see any logical reason to defend smoke. at all. period. fin. just as much as the plastic bag ban. who cares for plastic bags? no biggie!

I don't like smoke either. I'm not defending smoke or smokers. What I am defending is the business's right to choose if they want to allow smokers or not.

I mean you have a right in your own home to allow smoking or not. So why shouldn't a business have that same right?

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by nixcity

^Yea, not all subsidies are good, and yes high fructose corn syrup is the devil. I think JAM was kind of joking but to be honest where are the parents in all this???You can see how poor education in this country is playing out....how could a parent let their kid play 6-8 hours of video games every day, eat crap food every day, and not get out and enjoy being a kid?????

I think it would benefit if everyone knew how public education got started and then see the decline in the education system.

eek!

[nixcity]

Politics do play a role in urban development,,,,and greed only drives innovation for some, I don't think people working on a cure for cancer,,etc...do it for the money, and if they do, how lame. And in many industries, DUE TO GREED, innovation is hampered i.e. the car industry (we should be AGES ahead of where we are, fuel cell cars could have easily been on the market decades ago) which of course goes hand in hand with big oil....you cant say the government is the problem without saying big greedy business are too. And they are in your life just as much as government,,,if not more!!!

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by nixcity

Politics do play a role in urban development,,,,and greed only drives innovation for some, I don't think people working on a cure for cancer,,etc...do it for the money, and if they do, how lame. And in many industries, DUE TO GREED, innovation is hampered i.e. the car industry (we should be AGES ahead of where we are, fuel cell cars could have easily been on the market decades ago) which of course goes hand in hand with big oil....you cant say the government is the problem without saying big greedy business are too. And they are in your life just as much as government,,,if not more!!!

Yes there are some negative things about greed. One could say that the pharmaceutical industry is driven by greed and it would be their greed that would only help the symptoms of cancer and never cure it. If they did ever find a cure one could say the industry would suppress it because they would lose a whole industry that they make billions on.

[nixcity]

And I think you should look at how big GREEDY EFFFing businesses have RUINED education in our country. Thank you Pearson,etc for coming into our schools and raping it with these god for saken effing tests that have proven time and time again to FAIL!!!! Can you show me one country or even city or state that has let businesses run its schools??Public education is the hallmark of a free society!!!

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by nixcity

Public education is the hallmark of a free society!!!

I can't decide if you are being serious about this or not. ??

[nixcity]

Hell yes!!!! Again I ask, have their been any successful countries now or in history that didn't have a public education system???

[Jdawgboy]

You say businesses are being affected by the smoking ban? Actually fact is businesses are doing just fine and many are making more business with the lack of smokers. I go downtown a lot and I dont see businesses suffering because of the smoking ban. There are several places people can go that still allows smoking so again, they cater to smokers and make business. So where are all these businesses you speak of that are going through hell because of the smoking ban???

[paulsjv]

Originally Posted by nixcity

Hell yes!!!! Again I ask, have their been any successful countries now or in history that didn't have a public education system???

Well you might want to go do some research about this statement.