CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Hmmm. If we're placing bets, I will predict that, in its third year of operation, Cermak Green Line will be right around 120th of CTA's 166 stations in number of boardings.

As for McCormick Place service, when was the last time you or one of your friends actually went there? Just because there are a lot of people inside the building on certain days doesn't mean it's a big destination for public transit. The vast majority of the visitors are from out of town or the suburbs, traveling on expense accounts. You could run a shuttle every 10 minutes from Millennium and they still wouldn't find it more convenient or attractive than driving or being shuttled in special buses directly from their hotels.

McCormick Place/DePaul Arena would be ONE stop along the entire 25 mile 40 station line -- the entire Red Line operation is not based on ridership to Addison for Wrigley Field -- is it?

Again, you do all realize that there are THOUSANDS of people WORKING at McCormick Place year round, even when there are NO events happening at the time. Do they count at all?? Because right now N O B O D Y seems to be considering THEM at all -- and that is a BIG PART of why I am so O B S E S S E D with this thing.

Just like N O B O D Y is considering Delivery Truck Drivers in that Ashland Ave. BRT Project: "That's just too effin' bad about you getting all those traffic tickets dude!
But in all actuality - You D O N ' T count AT ALL anyway - Sorry Pawn."

OR am I misinterpreting something about that Project??

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Hmmm. If we're placing bets, I will predict that, in its third year of operation, Cermak Green Line will be right around 120th of CTA's 166 stations in number of boardings.

As for McCormick Place service, when was the last time you or one of your friends actually went there? Just because there are a lot of people inside the building on certain days doesn't mean it's a big destination for public transit. The vast majority of the visitors are from out of town or the suburbs, traveling on expense accounts. You could run a shuttle every 10 minutes from Millennium and they still wouldn't find it more convenient or attractive than driving or being shuttled in special buses directly from their hotels.

I think this is a narrow view of the goal of putting a station there. There will be an arena being installed in the area and more hotels, a transit stop would benefit that type of development and an arena is likely to spur ridership.

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

McCormick Place/DePaul Arena would be ONE stop along the entire 25 mile 40 station line .

oh...I see this was covered already

[le_brew]

on the metra electric, my thought is that maybe upgrade of stations, the integration of ventra pre-paid boarding, extending cta busses to all those lakefront stations, and maybe a distance-based type fares system would increase ridership within the city limits. or, am i just re-defining the gray line proposal?

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

Just like N O B O D Y is considering Delivery Truck Drivers in that Ashland Ave. BRT Project: "That's just too effin' bad about you getting all those traffic tickets dude!

Oh jeeze. Really dude? The BRT lanes are going to be in the middle of the road, the trucks won't be blocking that. Also, if you are a delivery truck driver and you can't be bothered to pull onto the nearest side street to stop and unload then you are not doing your job. You make it seem like there are no other examples of two traffic lane arterial streets in Chicago where delivery truck drivers don't just get wantonly ticketed.

Hint, there are far more commercial corridors in this city with two traffic lanes than commercial corridors with four traffic lanes and the delivery drivers do just damn fine on those streets. I live off one of those two lane commercial corridors and the truck drivers have absolutely no qualms about driving down my side street with a full sized liquor semi and blocking half my street while they unload. I am sure they will have no problem doing the same to unload along Ashland.

Traffic rules change and everyone should be expected to abide by them. If delivery drivers get ticketed on Ashland it is because they are obstinate assholes who refuse to adapt their behavior to follow the new rules. Just as the idiot delivery drivers who block the Clark St bike lanes should get the shit ticketed out of them.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Hmmm. If we're placing bets, I will predict that, in its third year of operation, Cermak Green Line will be right around 120th of CTA's 166 stations in number of boardings.

As for McCormick Place service, when was the last time you or one of your friends actually went there? Just because there are a lot of people inside the building on certain days doesn't mean it's a big destination for public transit. The vast majority of the visitors are from out of town or the suburbs, traveling on expense accounts. You could run a shuttle every 10 minutes from Millennium and they still wouldn't find it more convenient or attractive than driving or being shuttled in special buses directly from their hotels.

Lol, I am going to enjoy rubbing it in your face later when you are completely wrong. You can't seriously believe the Cermak Green Line station will only have 1,500-2,000 boardings a day and rank with the likes of Jarvis Red Line and Austin Green Line...

The Cermak station will easily be in the top third of all stations and probably in the top 20%.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Hmmm. If we're placing bets, I will predict that, in its third year of operation, Cermak Green Line will be right around 120th of CTA's 166 stations in number of boardings.

Probably true for the 3rd year in operation. But clearly this investment is being made with future population growth in mind. In the next 20 years, I bet this station will see some of the highest growth rates in ridership in the city

[ardecila]

Agreed. Cermak is on the vanguard of South Loop growth and new additions like the arena and the Motor Row entertainment district will bring more than just conventioneers. Remember that the Cermak station came out of a CTA study on responding to South Loop residential growth.

Also, the Green Line generally has a positive outlook because of office and residential development at Near South/Near West stations.

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by kolchak

The 2nd street subway in NYC - that is a real transit project.

Which has been a real disaster.

Until this country is able to manage the costs (and construction time frame) associated to rail mass transit we will be forced to experiment with BRT, bus management, lane management, and bicycle system upgrades. Urban heavy rail at $200million/mile (Spanish subway construction) is a good investment... at $1.5billion/mile (2nd Ave, 7 extension) it is a fiscal nightmare.

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by untitledreality

Which has been a real disaster.

Until this country is able to manage the costs (and construction time frame) associated to rail mass transit we will be forced to experiment with BRT, bus management, lane management, and bicycle system upgrades. Urban heavy rail at $200million/mile (Spanish subway construction) is a good investment... at $1.5billion/mile (2nd Ave, 7 extension) it is a fiscal nightmare.

The entire 25 mile 40 station Gray Line system would cost between $200-$250million TOTAL CAPITAL COST! (the Gray Line trains are operating RIGHT NOW -- every day).

That is $5million/mile (The problem is that there are NO B I L L I O N S OF DOLLARS involved to shove into Campaign Contributors Pockets -- and so it is N O T a viable option).

Please read Pages 13 through 20 -- Then you can come back and say that the Chicagoland Transportation and Air Quality Commission, and the Center for Neighborhood Technology (AND their recommendations) are M E A N I N G L E S S : https://app.box.com/CTA-Gray-Line

[UPChicago]

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

The entire 25 mile 40 station Gray Line system would cost between $200-$250million TOTAL CAPITAL COST! (the Gray Line trains are operating RIGHT NOW -- every day).

That is $5million/mile (The problem is that there are NO B I L L I O N S OF DOLLARS involved to shove into Campaign Contributors Pockets -- and so it is N O T a viable option).

Please read Pages 13 through 20 -- Then you can come back and say that the Chicagoland Transportation and Air Quality Commission, and the Center for Neighborhood Technology (AND their recommendations) are M E A N I N G L E S S : https://app.box.com/CTA-Gray-Line

Are you saying run existing Metra trains with more frequency or install a third rail and run CTA trains?

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

The entire 25 mile 40 station Gray Line system would cost between $200-$250million TOTAL CAPITAL COST! (the Gray Line trains are operating RIGHT NOW -- every day).

That is $5million/mile (The problem is that there are NO B I L L I O N S OF DOLLARS involved to shove into Campaign Contributors Pockets -- and so it is N O T a viable option).

Please read Pages 13 through 20 -- Then you can come back and say that the Chicagoland Transportation and Air Quality Commission, and the Center for Neighborhood Technology (AND their recommendations) are M E A N I N G L E S S : https://app.box.com/CTA-Gray-Line

Keep in mind, according to CTA Gray Line, this $200 million (low-end estimate) is to benefit the approximately 100 people who transfer from the Metra Electric to the Red Line. This project will save them the $4.50 a day it costs to transfer systems.

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by UPChicago

Are you saying run existing Metra trains with more frequency or install a third rail and run CTA trains?

The Gray Line would utilize the new Nippon-Sanyo Highliner II's -- modified for Rapid Transit services: http://www.grayline.20m.com/photo3.html -- NOT CTA 'L' cars.

Operate the in-city MED services at the same frequency as the Red, Blue, Green, Orange, etc., 'L' lines. Install new Ventra TVM's and Turnstyles at the in-city MED stations
(NO on-board fare collection).

FLAT FARE same as other CTA 'L' lines (NOT distance based). No need now for Metra to be paid to operate the service, as the Ventra equipment could now distribute the funds collected from riders directly to the Operator (CTA or Metra). Pass usage could be calculated to distribute funds evenly.

Everyone understands "Branding", try calling your restaurant "McBill's"! Kool cigarettes, and Target are Brands. People move next to the "Red Line", or the "Brown Line"

The "Gray Line" would be part of the CTA 'L' system just like any other 'L' line (but operated with different type equipment - like in many cities). The in-city MED routes do NOTHING at present for the in-city South Side communities that they pass through: http://www.grayline.20m.com/cgi-bin/...ns_med_map.jpg

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by sammyg

Keep in mind, according to CTA Gray Line, this $200 million (low-end estimate) is to benefit the approximately 100 people who transfer from the Metra Electric to the Red Line. This project will save them the $4.50 a day it costs to transfer systems.

What in the World are you talking about?? Explain this in detail, and post a link to where you got it from: (link)

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

What in the World are you talking about?? Explain this in detail, and post a link to where you got it from: (link)

It's difficult to search because of your strange typing, but one of the threads starts here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=7616

This isn't my harebrained idea, it's yours. You can't show that it would improve the lives of the small number of people who don't mind paying a transfer fee from one system to another. When Metra adopts Ventra, it won't even require two payment systems.

I don't oppose the idea, I think the $200 million (low end) cost would be better used improving bus service, or building infill stations.

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by sammyg

It's difficult to search because of your strange typing, but one of the threads starts here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=7616

This isn't my harebrained idea, it's yours. You can't show that it would improve the lives of the small number of people who don't mind paying a transfer fee from one system to another. When Metra adopts Ventra, it won't even require two payment systems.

I don't oppose the idea, I think the $200 million (low end) cost would be better used improving bus service, or building infill stations.

I don't know how you missed my website, but what does Providing CTA 'L' service TO and BETWEEN the University of Chicago, Chicago State University, the Ford Plant on Torrence, Altgeld Gardens, the Museum of Science & Industry, Downtown Blue Island, the South Shore Cultural Center, and the new Pullman National Park (all way out on the South Side), have to do with people transfering downtown?

That was a description of O N E example -- from one location, of the difficulties working with the present system -- and only from that one location (where I used to live) -- Not the entire 25 mile system.


btw: Thanks so much for your Shitty "harebrained" crack.

[sammyg]

Originally Posted by CTA Gray Line

I don't know how you missed my website, but what does Providing CTA 'L' service TO and BETWEEN the University of Chicago, Chicago State University, the Ford Plant on Torrence, Altgeld Gardens, the Museum of Science & Industry, Downtown Blue Island, the South Shore Cultural Center, and the new Pullman National Park (all way out on the South Side), have to do with people transfering downtown?

That was a description of O N E example -- from one location, of the difficulties working with the present system -- and only from that one location (where I used to live) -- Not the entire 25 mile system.


btw: Thanks so much for your Shitty "harebrained" crack.

Metra already provides that service. You just want to change the name and increase the amount of trains.

[brian_b]

How can you install turnstiles and Ventra card readers on the Metra Electric when it shares track and platforms with the South Shore from Hyde Park north to downtown?

Also, I think that increased service (and a renovated platform) at the 18th street station would be more beneficial than increased service at McCormick Place. As is, I think 18th is a flag stop but some trains wont even stop at all. Users are closer to more possible attractions vs. McCormick Place.

[ardecila]

^ South Shore trains only stop at a handful of stations on the MED main line. Keep South Shore trains on the outer tracks with suburban-bound Metra service and reserve the inner tracks for CTA service.

It doesn't matter that they call at the same stations; it's possible to design a ticketing system using either proof-of-payment or turnstiles that accommodates three kinds of service. The fare structure would need to reflect this as well, so a rider could take any type of train from 57th to Millennium and still only pay $2.25.

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by sammyg

Metra already provides that service. You just want to change the name and increase the amount of trains.

Metra provides infrequently scheduled, distanced-based fare, suburban commuter-type service to those locations. Nothing even vaugely like CTA 'L' service.

And with no fare coordination with CTA, it runs empty trains to empty stations except in rush houre; it also provides NO economic benefits of any type to the communities it passes through: http://www.grayline.20m.com/cgi-bin/...ns_med_map.jpg

Boston's 'T' runs third-rail trains on it's Orange and Red Lines (different RT rolling stock on each: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO5xY4thMdg ), dual third-rail and overhead trains on their Blue Line (a third RT stock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7hRpago1-8 ), and trolleys on their light-rail Green Line system -- All a part of the 'T'.
Why can't we have a part of the 'L' with a different type rolling stock -- the Green Line trolleys are certainly incompatable with 'T' Orange, Red, and Blue Line trains.

I just found this from the past on the net, and I guess it is part of what me made me imagine this might work: http://www.hydepark.org/transit/sharedpath2030.htm http://www.hydepark.org/transit/graylinetext.htm

[CTA Gray Line]

Originally Posted by ardecila

^ South Shore trains only stop at a handful of stations on the MED main line. Keep South Shore trains on the outer tracks with suburban-bound Metra service and reserve the inner tracks for CTA service.

It doesn't matter that they call at the same stations; it's possible to design a ticketing system using either proof-of-payment or turnstiles that accommodates three kinds of service. The fare structure would need to reflect this as well, so a rider could take any type of train from 57th to Millennium and still only pay $2.25.

About the track usage, you are exactly correct. But I have a way of SS and MED UP trains never using the same plarforms as Gray Line trains; I will post more soon - as I am at work now and must tend to my duties.