Winnipeg in top 10 for affordability

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Jeff

so i was in calgary (just for fun) last weekend (friday the 19th-sunday the 21st) for just over 48 hours and i tried to cover as much ground as i could even though most of saturday i was really hungover here's the impressions i got from the city to hopefully add to this discussion..

flying over the NE section of the city upon descent at 8am what struck me:
-bumper to bumper traffic.
-new roads, subdivisions and cloverleafs u/c like MAD.
-skyline and mountains beckoning this manitoba boy as we pulled up to the gate.

thoughts on the airport:
-clean, convenient, cowboy hat-clad tourist info people were easy to find and helpful.
-help wanted signs all over already in the airport.
-plane-themed marry-go-rounds as i got off the plane, dinosaurs hanging from the ceilings and alberta-themed displays at the luggage pick-up bays cluttered the place up a little too much for my liking (TACKY!), but overall it's a nice airport =)

then we walk outside to catch the bus to the ctrain station:
-it was -30 in winnipeg when i left and in calgary it was -6 and barely any snow.. that sure did help me feel welcome and i mean that with all my heart.
-bus whisked me to whitehorn station in under 20 minutes where a ctrain was promptly waiting to take me downtown.. side note: i always paid my fare, but seriously, if i wanted to all the times i took the ctrain over the weekend, i could've easily not paid at all as nobody or any machine checked if i had a ticket or transfer. what's up with that? they rely on you being honest and pay your fare or did i just accidentally sneak in somehow? no clue here.
-ctrain got me downtown in roughly 20 minutes, at 9am i was expecting it to be packed but i was able to get a window seat, it was pretty clean and easy to use for this first time ctrain user.
-all in all, from the airport to downtown it took me maybe 45 minutes during the morning rush for $2.25. NIIIIICE!

so i got off at the city hall station, dropped off my luggage at the hotel (marriott fyi) and spent the rest of the day exploring downtown to waste time til i met up with my friends at 5pm. impressions of downtown:
-feels A LOT bigger than i woulda thought for the size of the city, but i was expecting that.. almost thought i was in minneapolis at some moments!
-stephen ave. ped mall was great with its two to three blocks of nicely preserved and human-scaled heritage buildings. very busy and clean too. BUT! i was asked for money on the same scale as walking down portage avenue in winnipeg just walking between centre st. to the barclay mall. so it's not as bad as we think fellow winnipeggers!
-the core malls were good the odd hour or two i spent kicking around in them.
-the plus 15 system is so extensive! i had a good time getting lost in there and i love how the logo for it has that guy with the cowboy hat on it. very unique!
-eau claire market = blah.. i know it's winter and i was told it wasn't worth checking it out, but i was curious.
-walked through prince's island park and then on up the seemingly thousands of stairs to crescent road to check out the views and they did indeed impress me! (no i didn't have a camera with me at any moment over the weekend.. i'm in the process of getting a new one as my last one is no longer working good) the homeowners up there are sure lucky.. really is a million dollar view.
-walked through the glenbow museum after for a bit.. it's big and one floor was closed for construction, but other than that, it needs to be brought out of the 70s badly, most displays were quite lacking as well. MB museum for comparison is waaaay more focused on quality and detail, even though it too needs major upgrading.
-all the downtown construction sites intrigued me too.. there's pretty much one per block. boom is right! made the city feel quite energized compared to what i'm used to. centrium in person isn't at all what the renderings would lead you to think tho...

friday night = drunken haze so no major impressions from that night.

satruday during the day i took the ctrain to the chinook centre mall from the 7th ave free zone - now that's a good way to get people to take transit! good on calgary for that one! impressions:
-INSANITY! but that's to be expected at any mall on a saturday - lines for everything, help wanted signs everywhere once again, weird design, small foodcourt and confusing layout. like the airport, if it got rid of some of the clutter it would be a lot nicer. besides banana republic and a couple other stores, no real difference in shopping choices as compared to winnipeg's polo park mall. i wasn't in town to shop anyway.

sat. night went to joey's at eau claire for supper (hot staff as to be expected ), downtown was surprisingly dead even by my humble winnipeg standards.. but i guess everyone was gone to the red mile or whatever it's called instead of downtown. never got a chance to make it down there =( then once again for the remainder of saturday night i don't remember much due to a couple stiff drinks.. speaking of drunkeness, a 2-6 of smirnoff vodka was like $27 as compared to ~$22 in winnipeg. did i get fleeced or something? i thought booze was cheaper in alberta =(

then sunday, didn't do much but pack and head to the airport for my flight out at 3pm.

overall impressions: i liked it! there's a certain energy you can definitely feel in that town, but it does lack the depth and grit of winnipeg in that it feels so new and is growing so fast. lastly, one thing that really jumped out to me and the fellow winnipegger i was with was how white the population of calgary seems to be - downtown, the malls, the bars - a lot more caucasian compared to what i'm used to in winnipeg. anyone else notcie that?

so that's my take on calgary. i could've gone on in a lot more detail but those are the main things i observed =)

tisk tisk tisk you left out so much.... the ride on the ctrain coming into downtown....

why go to euclare market yeesh inless ya wana go to a movie stay away from there... o why did they close the theater in bankers hall ...

you went to chinook

its crazy how long it takes for the bus to get to the ctrain station and jeff they do random checks for paid fair. your ctrain tick is valid on the bus's but you gota validate it, and if you get a transfer you can use that also (corect me if i am wrong guys)

o you shoulda tried to get out to the ski hill.......

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by Jeff

but i'm sticking to my claim of the not-so-diverse population. but i guess i did see mainly the downtown business crowd.

Stick to it dude. If you came from Vancouver or Toronto, I might let it go...but to notice that coming from the Peg? The stats don't lie. These are now 5 years old (I believe the last stat for newcomers to Calgary is 1 out of 3 or 4 are visible minority, so it will go up slowly). It gives you some idea (besides, Chinook shows diverse populations...you must've really had a good Friday night not to notice that, the different stores, or the largest food court :-)

From www.statscan.ca, you can look up any other details there:

Winnipeg pop 661725 v.m. pop 82565 percentage 12.5%
Calgary pop 943310 v.m. pop 164895 percentage 17.5%
Montreal pop 3380645 v.m. pop 458330 percentage 13.5%
Van pop 1967480 v.m. pop 725655 percentage 36.9%
Toronto 4647955 v.m. pop 1712530 percentage 36.8%

[trueviking]

calgary does have an ethnically diverse population....it doesnt appear so because there is less social diversity.


they all live in suburban stucco houses with white garage doors and a little bit of cultured stone on the front....

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Winnipeg has a few good urban areas to live, but unless you've actually lived in Calgary's core, I think you'd find it very hard to compare to be honest.

laughs

[trueviking]

i guess i should put a smiley face in that last post....

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by trueviking

calgary does have an ethnically diverse population....it doesnt appear so because there is less social diversity.


they all live in suburban stucco houses with white garage doors and a little bit of cultured stone on the front....

yep

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Yes, we agreed in that lengthy and researched thread that they were similar ;-).

However, the "twice as many people live in tall buildings in winnipeg" thing, I'm not so sure of...is this the over 5 storey stat? There's a lot of 4 storey places in Calgary, and not too many 25+ storey places in Winnipeg ;-)

Regardless, the multi-family dwelling growth is huge - it makes up at least 35% of new construction now, and that urban population will skyrocket in the core - especially Connaught and east village, but also out towards Bridges and Garrison...but I'm sure you check the Calgary Construction thread, so you're aware. The biggest thing that will now dictate that lifestyle transition from "cul-de-sac" to denser urban forms will be the price...as this thread alludes to for Calgary. We bought our house in the burbs (not a cul-de-sac though :-), for $240k - and is now worth $450k. If we had to make the same decision now, we'd have considered buying a townhome or 2-bed condo (we had a townhome in the beltline...and loved it).

There's also growth around the C-train stations to the south now - so the future of TODs is bright in Calgary.

Winnipeg has a few good urban areas to live, but unless you've actually lived in Calgary's core, I think you'd find it very hard to compare to be honest.

lots of speculation there....not much fact....maybe all that will happen, but you are banking on a lot of things and it isnt a reality today.

the overwhelming majority of residential construction in calgary is single family suburban....

yeah right, winnipeg has twice as many people living in 5 storey or taller buildings, because everyone in calgary lives in a 4 storey building.....isnt most multi family in calgary 3 storey...4 is more common in winnipeg actually.

you should add up all the future residents in those towers...you will see that the 'explosive growth' is not a reality, especially when compared to the overall growth....a 30 storey condo tower holds what 250 people or so?....30 towers like that is only an increase of 8000-10 000 people....hardly an explosion when you are adding 30 000 to the whole every year.

[1ajs]

ya calgary just keeps going and going and going especialy when ya go down th trans going west...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Well, as I posted above, Calgarians on average are working long hours

Your comment was on a story that showed Albertans working a whopping TEN more hours a year than Manitobans. At least unless I misread you.

Wow, do we ever sleep?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that is great, if that is what you like....sitting in the bush by myself isnt my bag....walking up the side of a mountain doesnt turn me on....i like sitting on a beautiful white sand beach with tens of thousands of other people....i like sitting in the hot sun on the dock of my parents cottage with a beer or two...maybe going for a ski once in a while.

Your initial comment was about "tourist infested mountains" (I'm pretty sure that was a negative, correct me if I'm wrong), and now you say you enjoy tens of thousands of other people?

I think what you meant to say is "I like what I'm used to and have grown up with" - which I think pretty much puts an end to 99.999% of all these discussions anyway

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

ya calgary just keeps going and going and going especialy when ya go down th trans going west...

Um... Calgary hasn't expanded down the Trans-Canada heading west (I'm PRETTY sure I've translated you correctly here) other than a couple of suburbs, since the 1950s. If anything, that's just about the LEAST expanded places in Calgary. Every other direction has grown out though - it happens when a city grows.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by trueviking

that is great, if that is what you like....sitting in the bush by myself isnt my bag....walking up the side of a mountain doesnt turn me on....i like sitting on a beautiful white sand beach with tens of thousands of other people....i like sitting in the hot sun on the dock of my parents cottage with a beer or two...maybe going for a ski once in a while.

that is exactly my point as far as outdoor amenities goes anyways....both places offer different things...neither is better or worse....it just matters what is important to you personally.

You forgot all the bikini clad girls at Grand, Vike!

I know myself; I’ll always choose semi nakedness over nature’s splendor.

[Greco Roman]

I would also just like to mention that even though I do come across some snobbish people out here, Edmonton has nothing on Calgary in terms of attitude. I've lived here long enough to establish my opinion now. You mention that you are from Winnipeg, and the rant's about how much Winnipeg is garbage are so much fewer in number. Edmonton is a more realistic city than Calgary in my opinion. Most Edmontonians don't walk around with inflated egos boasting the "I'm am the best and you are the worst" bullshit attitude. That is probably why I find it a much more attractive city. I will take Edmonton hands down over Calgary anyday! But I still wish this area had the same type of quality beaches that Manitoba does.

On second thought, no I don't. Beaches are a Manitoba trademark, and I would actually like to keep it that way, lol.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by IntotheWest

Stick to it dude. If you came from Vancouver or Toronto, I might let it go...but to notice that coming from the Peg? The stats don't lie. These are now 5 years old (I believe the last stat for newcomers to Calgary is 1 out of 3 or 4 are visible minority, so it will go up slowly). It gives you some idea (besides, Chinook shows diverse populations...you must've really had a good Friday night not to notice that, the different stores, or the largest food court :-)

From www.statscan.ca, you can look up any other details there:

Winnipeg pop 661725 v.m. pop 82565 percentage 12.5%
Calgary pop 943310 v.m. pop 164895 percentage 17.5%
Montreal pop 3380645 v.m. pop 458330 percentage 13.5%
Van pop 1967480 v.m. pop 725655 percentage 36.9%
Toronto 4647955 v.m. pop 1712530 percentage 36.8%

Uh oh, I think were turning this into a dick measuring contest

[murman]

Originally Posted by Albertaboy

In terms of Calgary, I am really dissapointed in what has happened to that city in terms of it's overall attitude.

Now it has done a complete 180 on itself. I find many people there phoney and pretentious. You mention that you are from Winnipeg, and oh man, the insults start flying! "Fuckin' Winnipeg; dirty, scummy, frozen wasteland, blah blah blah blah blah blah. It's sooooooooooooo much better here in Calgary, yadda yadda yadda" Again, not everyone there acts in this manner, but this is how I find many people talk about other centre's, especially my hometown and it makes me sick to my stomach; talk about an embarrasement on Caglary's part!

Don't worry. They treat Edmonton with equal disdain.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Your initial comment was about "tourist infested mountains" (I'm pretty sure that was a negative, correct me if I'm wrong), and now you say you enjoy tens of thousands of other people?

I think what you meant to say is "I like what I'm used to and have grown up with" - which I think pretty much puts an end to 99.999% of all these discussions anyway

big difference between a packed beach and a packed mountain....my only point was that i am not a hicking/camping guy personally so the mountains are not a particualr draw....for many they are, but for many they are not....the lakes and shield in manitoba offer as much recreationally as the mountains of alberta do.

anyways....my final comment is that calgary, edmonton and winnipeg are all fine cities for their own reasons...there are things that make people happy in each.....but very few people will move form one to another based on the desire to find some greater level of urban living than they could find in their own city.....all three are essentially the same in urban quality.

[IntotheWest]

Originally Posted by trueviking

anyways....my final comment is that calgary, edmonton and winnipeg are all fine cities for their own reasons...there are things that make people happy in each.....but very few people will move form one to another based on the desire to find some greater level of urban living than they could find in their own city.....all three are essentially the same in urban quality.

Not so...my post above isn't speculation, it's actual fact. Yes, the 40 or so condos going up in the core will add 10,000+ people to the area, that is a big number - and just the immediate core (as you know it). That multi-family construction goes well past the beltline however - as mentioned the Bridges (I'm sure you're familiar with that area now), Marda Loop, Bankview, Mission, and like I said - as far out as Garrison Woods/Green (where the Farmers Market is).

The number of single-family homes built last year were pushing 10,500, while multi-family construction was at about 6,500 units. Understood this isn't Vancouver, but quite impressive, especially considering 15 years ago it was about 95% single family homes being built in Calgary. The projection for this year is 9,500 single-family and still 6,500 multi-family...there are currently some 7,800 multi-family units in various stages of construction.

This snippet from an article posted by an Edmonton real estate company explains exactly what I posted earlier (and you deny):

"What is interesting is that in Edmonton the largest increases were seen in single-family homes, while Calgary actually saw a decrease in single family home construction. The huge increases in Calgary came in multi-family units while in Edmonton mult-family construction rose by only 4%. Why? My guess is that single-family home prices are now so high in Calgary, fewer and fewer people can afford them and more and more people are opting for condos."

I'm obviously not going to sway you to believing its a richer "urban" environment (admittedly, unless you put a priority on the grunge-factor), but I've lived in both cores, and Calgary (IMO) from even 5 years ago has an edge on ammenities over Winnipeg - it's not the same. But on your scale, if you thought it was the same, come back in 5 years.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by trueviking

my final comment is that calgary, edmonton and winnipeg are all fine cities for their own reasons...there are things that make people happy in each.....but very few people will move form one to another based on the desire to find some greater level of urban living than they could find in their own city.....all three are essentially the same in urban quality.

Absolutely.

Day-to-day living is just about the same, although we could discuss forever things like roads, public transit, different shops, whatever - but fundamentally all three cities are very similar in terms of what's available. For my tastes, anyway. But I'm also one of those evil types who actually enjoys single-family housing, so Intothewest's comment is to me a negative thing.

It's the biggest reason why I would never want to live in Vancouver or Toronto.

[trueviking]

.

[trueviking]

.