The Public Record

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Sorry, I didn't get the humour aspect when I first read it. It seemed more like a 'torches and pitchforks' kind of thing to me.

That said, your explanation makes it more clear, and I can see some value in it from a discussion standpoint, keeping in mind someone123's guidelines from a moderator's point of view.

For me, I would be more interested in how some members of council have performed from a development point of view, but even that is a little tricky as their job is to represent their district, and not just promote their personal beliefs, so IMHO this entire thread would need to be handled diplomatically (i.e. unlike how discussions involving bicycle lanes, etc. tend to evolve in this forum).

Also, I think an important part of a democracy is that people have a say in what happens in their city, so if a group opposes a development, it's their right to air their concerns, whether we agree with them or not. Pro-development groups should also have their say, and iMHO it's council's job to be able to sort through it all and make decisions that are for the betterment of the area and the city in general. We get frustrated when things don't go our way, but it's important to recognize that this is not undemocratic, it's actually closer to the opposite (unless there are unfair, dishonest practices happening behind the scenes, which we can not know about, nor should we speculate about).

At this point, a good amount of people have chimed in on the subject in this thread, so perhaps a new thread should be started (with a different name and a direct, thought-out "mission statement") so that the topic can be started cleanly. As for a title, I don't know, but maybe it should include something to the effect of development hurdles in Halifax, or thereabouts. It's up to you, as it's your thread.

Thank you. I think there was some misunderstanding.

I moreso meant that it would be a repository of the media that features particular mentions of who voted across proposals or about creation of hurdles by where none existed (or used legitimate processes for the purposes of obstruction vs legitmate public concern). Nothing would be mis-information (unless the reporter mis-reported).

In this way, it would shine a light on X organization literally fights everything (if the data over time shows this) or individuals who publicly and constantly insnare processes. If they are speaking out on every development... that is totally their right, but at some point it becomes clear that this is an unwavering position versus something that takes into account actual planning.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Thank you. I think there was some misunderstanding.

I moreso meant that it would be a repository of the media that features particular mentions of who voted across proposals or about creation of hurdles by where none existed (or used legitimate processes for the purposes of obstruction vs legitmate public concern). Nothing would be mis-information (unless the reporter mis-reported).

In this way, it would shine a light on X organization literally fights everything (if the data over time shows this) or individuals who publicly and constantly insnare processes. If they are speaking out on every development... that is totally their right, but at some point it becomes clear that this is an unwavering position versus something that takes into account actual planning.

I think this could be interesting if done properly, and not turned into a bitchfest about 'anti-development people'. It's a great idea, actually, and yes I had misunderstood your intentions to a certain extent.

Let's see how it turns out...

[someone123]

I like some of the murals but in the scheme of things they're not that expensive to replace or recreate and they were often meant to be temporary. To me it looks like the quality has gone up over time and a new mural is likely to be nicer than one from the 90's.

It's true there are a lot of bad takes and that probably shows to some degree what the median or lower percentiles of informed opinions are. There seems to be a kind of negative selection in some places like Reddit where there's pervasive negativity and vague unconstructive anti-capitalist sentiment. There is tons of complaining about developers without any acknowledgement of the constraints they work under.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's true there are a lot of bad takes and that probably shows to some degree what the median or lower percentiles of informed opinions are. There seems to be a kind of negative selection in some places like Reddit where there's pervasive negativity and vague unconstructive anti-capitalist sentiment. There is tons of complaining about developers without any acknowledgement of the constraints they work under.

The r/Halifax subreddit is an utter cesspool unfortunately and seems to be overrun with devotees of the Young Marxists and other left-wing extremist groups who seem down on most everything - businesses, landlords, developers, employers, politicians, you name it. The negativity is mind-numbing. Some seemingly are outraged that entry-level no-experience-required service jobs don’t pay 6 figures. The lack of sense on display is quite bizarre. It’s one thing to be young and clueless, but that place is next-level.

[OldDartmouthMark]

These are all very good reasons for avoiding reddit. At least that's why I don't go there... I feel that the negatives outweigh the positives. YMMV.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I like some of the murals but in the scheme of things they're not that expensive to replace or recreate and they were often meant to be temporary.

Agree. And I think it's a positive to keep mural painters in work while refreshing the cityscape with new murals every now and then. There are some I like and some I'm not crazy over (I've never done enough drugs to appreciate the freak lunchbox one), but overall I enjoy the creativity and the skill involved in doing the really fine ones.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I think this could be interesting if done properly, and not turned into a bitchfest about 'anti-development people'. It's a great idea, actually, and yes I had misunderstood your intentions to a certain extent.

Let's see how it turns out...

Indeed. Likewise, it should include public quotes that are positive. When I wrote objective data... I simply meant things that people have done/said.

I propose calling it "The Public Record". Over time it would become easy to tabulate results (e.g., a counsellor voted against x developments or a local individual was quoted as being against x developments for x reasons).

Over time I think it would reveal some interesting, if not amusing, insights.

[JET]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Indeed. Likewise, it should include public quotes that are positive. When I wrote objective data... I simply meant things that people have done/said.

I propose calling it "The Public Record". Over time it would become easy to tabulate results (e.g., a counsellor voted against x developments or a local individual was quoted as being against x developments for x reasons).

Over time I think it would reveal some interesting, if not amusing, insights.

I appreciate the name change, less pejorative.

[kzt79]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

The r/Halifax subreddit is an utter cesspool unfortunately and seems to be overrun with devotees of the Young Marxists and other left-wing extremist groups who seem down on most everything - businesses, landlords, developers, employers, politicians, you name it. The negativity is mind-numbing. Some seemingly are outraged that entry-level no-experience-required service jobs don’t pay 6 figures. The lack of sense on display is quite bizarre. It’s one thing to be young and clueless, but that place is next-level.

It's remarkable how many seem to believe everyone should be able to live in luxury accommodation downtown on a part time, minimum wage job.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by JET

I appreciate the name change, less pejorative.

A pleasure in sorting this out. I hope the thread is of value. If anything, it's all the tidbits in one place.

[Empire]

I think it would also be valuable to account for all of the historic homes demolished under HRM's watch, even if just the last 20 years. The architecture in the three houses demolished on Robie street in the link below was quintessential Halifax. This detailed craftsmanship is being lost at an alarming rate.

In many cases the demolished site remains unsightly for years as is the case on Young Avenue. If the general public could see a thread of the architecture demolished it would be an eyeopener. So in many cases, quality structures have been replaced by uninspiring architecture or an unsightly vacant site. Any demolition site on the peninsula should be required to be landscaped and maintained until developed.

Three historic homes demolished on Robie:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6418...8192?entry=ttu

Unsightly remains:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6416...8192?entry=ttu

Young Ave. demolition site.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6315...6656?entry=ttu

[JET]

Originally Posted by Empire

I think it would also be valuable to account for all of the historic homes demolished under HRM's watch, even if just the last 20 years. The architecture in the three houses demolished on Robie street in the link below was quintessential Halifax. This detailed craftsmanship is being lost at an alarming rate.

In many cases the demolished site remains unsightly for years as is the case on Young Avenue. If the general public could see a thread of the architecture demolished it would be an eyeopener. So in many cases, quality structures have been replaced by uninspiring architecture or an unsightly vacant site. Any demolition site on the peninsula should be required to be landscaped and maintained until developed.

Three historic home demolished on Robie:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6418...8192?entry=ttu

Unsightly remains:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6416...8192?entry=ttu

Young Ave. demolition site.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6315...6656?entry=ttu

Ooohh!! Now we're on to something!
https://halifaxcommon.ca/hart-house/

[Empire]

Originally Posted by JET

Ooohh!! Now we're on to something!
https://halifaxcommon.ca/hart-house/

The loss of the Hart House didn't seem to resonate with HRM in that there should have been lessons learned. Fast forward 30 years and similar structures are demolished on Young Ave.

Can HRM really be proud of this method of planning?

Maybe the Hart House should be rebuilt on Young Ave. That could be a great lesson learned.

[Keith P.]

Google seems to have the incorrect street number for the Young Ave house as they call it #830. Even numbers are on the west side of that street, not the east side. I think it may be #835 but I'm unsure.

That is an interesting case in any event. The house was large but not a very attractive architectural design on the outside. No idea what the interior was like of course. The lot is huge though and so of considerable value.

Mason has, of course, in his self-appointed role as development czar, apparently blocked any attempt to build on the site as can be seen here:

https://wayemason.ca/2019/11/28/impo...-young-avenue/

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Empire

Unsightly remains:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6416...8192?entry=ttu

It would be interesting to know what had been on the site of the adjacent and equally unsightly Robie Street Dental Centre.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It would be interesting to know what had been on the site of the adjacent and equally unsightly Robie Street Dental Centre.

Here they are....

Three historic homes demolished on Robie:
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.6418...8192?entry=ttu]

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by kzt79

It's remarkable how many seem to believe everyone should be able to live in luxury accommodation downtown on a part time, minimum wage job.

Well if you are recently retired and have sold your House, you most certainly can do that especially if She who must be obeyed has stated that "you should find something to do".

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Dartguard

Well if you are recently retired and have sold your House, you most certainly can do that especially if She who must be obeyed has stated that "you should find something to do".

There are also people coming to Halifax from other more expensive markets, and the high-end properties and neighbourhoods stack up well against the offerings elsewhere in the country. A prime neighbourhood in Halifax costs less than a less-than-prime part of Toronto. A few years ago there was a really big cost disparity.

I think the migration statistics obfuscate this somewhat as there are fewer people buying more expensive properties. You can have a net outflow to Alberta but still rich people in Calgary will buy waterfront properties in Halifax for example, at a discount to the options in BC or ON. I expect this trend will continue as Halifax becomes more of a "lifestyle" pick for people with more money.

[HarbingerDe]

Originally Posted by kzt79

It's remarkable how many seem to believe everyone should be able to live in luxury accommodation downtown on a part time, minimum wage job.

Literally, nobody has ever said this, but go on nonsensically caricaturing the opinions of people ideologically opposed to you. That is certainly a healthy way to engage in productive discussion.

For starters, how about being able to live within a 20 minute walk of downtown on a median Nova Scotian salary?

How about being able to live within a 20 minute drive of downtown on a median Nova Scotian salary?

I don't understand how someone can see a housing market that is only building new units that can be afforded with a salary nearly twice that of the median individual income in this province (and an insufficient amount of them at that) and not see it as a problem.

I can only assume you're insulated from the nightmare that is the Halifax rental market by being a rent-capped tenant or a long-term property owner. You clearly don't have empathy for anyone who is not as comfortable as you seem to be.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Unfortunately, it seems the intended purpose of this thread is already being side-tracked!

Further posts should be limited to aggregating information/data on the way the public officials vote or speak on specific 'developments', or the quotes/actions of private individuals/orgs. that deter or promote the advancement of particular building.

Per the original post, this is meant to be 'objective data' in the sense that it's not your normative perspective, but what official fora and media have captured to act as a thread where all these disparate snippets are collected

For example: a counsellor votes against X developments; a counsellor votes in favour of X developments, so-and-so private individual said "think of the children" as a reason to not build across X proposals, or a former politician says they'll "consider all legal actions against the government" X times.

Thank you for understanding and please keep this content to such examples.

Again, not our opinions, but what has happened on the "public record". If you're quoted in such channels, feel free to include it here.

There are already established heritage focused threads (e.g., Old Halifax), so the demolition content, etc. can be posted there. Most? of these sites don't currently have proposals, so wait until the debate on the lots has ensued.

If you are new to the forum, it is definitely worth going through the subsections to find threads on content you're looking for.