The future of Ottawa's Transit

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by RTWAP

The distance between 2 and 3 would be 1.5 blocks. That's way too short.

Unless O'Connor Street still exists... 2.5 blocks, same distance as between 1 and 2.

[S-Man]

Looks like Ken Grey's "Friends of..." neighbours are starting their fight against the Bryon corridor LRT idea. Maybe we can get some court cases out of this, you know, where they explain how a former electric light rail corridor is the absolutely worst spot for electric LRT.

The comments from Westboroites (?) on this story are just amazing.
Things like "won't leave enough room for parking", "the city is trying to take away our cars", and of course, "build it somewhere else, even if it costs more."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/We....html#Comments

[Dado]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Looks like Ken Grey's "Friends of..." neighbours are starting their fight against the Bryon corridor LRT idea. Maybe we can get some court cases out of this, you know, where they explain how a former electric light rail corridor is the absolutely worst spot for electric LRT.

The comments from Westboroites (?) on this story are just amazing.
Things like "won't leave enough room for parking", "the city is trying to take away our cars", and of course, "build it somewhere else, even if it costs more."

Sorry, these people don't live in Westboro. No one who lives in Westboro would be in any way negatively affected by light rail coming through since to anyone in Westboro it would go north of the west end of the village and then into the trench where they would be getting better rapid transit service than they have right now.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/We....html#Comments

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by Dado

Sorry, these people don't live in Westboro. No one who lives in Westboro would be in any way negatively affected by light rail coming through since to anyone in Westboro it would go north of the west end of the village and then into the trench where they would be getting better rapid transit service than they have right now.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/We....html#Comments

You're defining Westboro tighter than the media/general public does. Yes, people affected technically live in Highland Park and McKellar Park.

[McC]

"WESTBORO, the name that swallowed your neighbourhood!" (TM)

[Dado]

Originally Posted by gjhall

You're defining Westboro tighter than the media/general public does. Yes, people affected technically live in Highland Park and McKellar Park.

I am to some degree, but in this case I am supported by the claimed boundaries of Westboro, as represented by the Westboro Community Association:

"The boundaries of the WCA are East of Denbury, West of Tweedsmuir, and between Carling and the Transitway."

http://lovewestboro.wordpress.com/about/
http://ourkitchissippi.ca/our-commun...-associations/

Given the claimed western boundary of Denbury, which is opposite Rochester Field, it remains the case that pretty much anyone who would be directly affected is not in Westboro.

Denbury is about the only one of those boundaries I could be persuaded to agree with. The rest of the boundaries of Westboro are downright bizarre. I never had the sense that Westboro extended as far south as Carling - at most it was to Dovercourt but I would cut it off right at Byron. The eastern boundary of Tweedsmuir means that the old Canadian Tire, the Canadian Banknote Company, the convent, Hilson PS and the Loblaws Superstore are not in Westboro. The northern boundary of the Transitway means that only half of Westboro Transitway Station and none of the original Westboro CPR Station are in Westboro, while Westboro Beach (i.e. the beach in Westboro) is now in another community named after said beach (it's rather odd for a community to be named after something which came into being long after the community itself was established). I have a federal Topo map from the late 1990s in which the 'W' and 'e' of "Westboro" are north of the Transitway, the 's' is over the Transitway and the rest of the word is north of Richmond Rd.

As far as I'm concerned, Westboro runs from Rochester Field in the west, east along Byron (or rather the old tram line) to Island Park (or the back lot lines on the west side), north along Island Park to the Ottawa River and back around the Ottawa River past Westboro Beach to Rochester Field. That makes it centred on the area between Richmond and Scott, which makes perfect historic sense since Richmond and the CPR line where they intersected Churchill (formerly Main Street) were the major features around which Westboro developed. This area encompasses all the former industrial areas along both sides of the railway (including the former mill site near the beach, which was once called "Skead's Mill" and was the original name for Westboro) and the house of its builder (the former convent site). The current Westboro boundaries are way too far south to make any historic sense (on both the north and south sides) and they exclude the eastern part of the village.

[S-Man]

Interesting. But I agree, the area west of Golden and especially Cleary I do not consider Westboro. The Richmond Road retail/condo strip terminates at Golden, and things change very quickly.

A lot of people who add their voices to this debate are so uninformed on the LRT plan - they think it will take up the width of Byron "Park" from Holland onward. Not true. This will be out of sight, but maybe not out of mind. Regardless, it was once a rail line and will be so again when the bulk of the complainers hit about 70 years old.

The city should take precautions not to stunt its future by bowing to people's memories of the quiet, inner-city 1970s.

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Unless O'Connor Street still exists... 2.5 blocks, same distance as between 1 and 2.

A station at Bank extends half-way to O'Connor. A station between Metcalfe and Elgin pretty much fills the block. That leaves the distance between stations as the block between Melcalfe and O'Connor, plus half the next block.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Interesting. But I agree, the area west of Golden and especially Cleary I do not consider Westboro. The Richmond Road retail/condo strip terminates at Golden, and things change very quickly.

I would argue Westboro does go as far west as Rochester Field (think of it as part of Westboro's greenbelt with Byron and Island Park ). The war memorial is in this stretch, as are the apartment towers, Rogers, Amica, the former RMOC building and the Maplelawn/Keg Manor, all of which are part of the "village" in their own way. In time, I would expect that the retail/condo strip would extend as far as Rogers, with the Maplelawn/Keg Manor forming a permanent barrier to any further advance westwards.

A lot of people who add their voices to this debate are so uninformed on the LRT plan - they think it will take up the width of Byron "Park" from Holland onward. Not true. This will be out of sight, but maybe not out of mind. Regardless, it was once a rail line and will be so again when the bulk of the complainers hit about 70 years old.

It is really too bad that the RMOC did not build light rail out this way when they had the chance in the 1980s. At that time, the CPR corridor was still completely available. I don't know if you can remember, but there used to be a Dairy Queen right near Woodroffe (next to the recently-closed KFC) in a parking lot consisting of a hut in the northwest corner and not much else (it is now a strip mall with Theo's Greek Taverna, etc). Taking light rail along the CPR corridor - which had only been out of use for about 15 years at that time - and crossing over to the Richmond-Byron corridor there would have been blindingly easy to do back then, and it would have almost completely skipped out the most treed parts of the old tramway east of Woodroffe (the trees in the strip west of Woodroffe are all a lot more recent). But no... the RMOC had to insist on BRT instead and fitting a busway through this kind of environment is a lot more challenging and objectionable.

[gjhall]

Originally Posted by RTWAP

A station at Bank extends half-way to O'Connor. A station between Metcalfe and Elgin pretty much fills the block. That leaves the distance between stations as the block between Melcalfe and O'Connor, plus half the next block.

I could flip that as easily then:
A station at Bank extends halfway to Kent. A station between Lyon and Bay pretty much fills the block. That leaves the distance between stations as the block between Lyon and Kent, plus half the next block.

Point being, it's the same east and west from Bank in this hypothetical scenario unless you have seen more of the EA of this hypothetical scenario than I have?

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by gjhall

I could flip that as easily then:
A station at Bank extends halfway to Kent. A station between Lyon and Bay pretty much fills the block. That leaves the distance between stations as the block between Lyon and Kent, plus half the next block.

Point being, it's the same east and west from Bank in this hypothetical scenario unless you have seen more of the EA of this hypothetical scenario than I have?

To me that says three stations (Lyon-Bay, Bank, Metcalfe-Elgin) are too close together. Just because a station centred on Bank St. is in the middle of that stretch doesn't mean the overall solution is a good one.

I'd rather have two downtown stations (Lyon-Bay and spanning O'Connor) and a few users who might have to walk an extra minute than every passenger waiting an extra minute.

[eternallyme]

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod..._octranspo.pdf

Fall service changes - Memo from the City of Ottawa via the Ottawa Sun.

[Cre47]

Additional trips on the 12? I guess they are probably just reinstating one or two of the many trips that were cut over the past few years, on that route (and its longer predecessor)

The gap in the overnight service weekdays on the 96 is already two hours now.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Additional trips on the 12? I guess they are probably just reinstating one or two of the many trips that were cut over the past few years, on that route (and its longer predecessor)

The gap in the overnight service weekdays on the 96 is already two hours now.

Yeah, they should just run the 4 extra trips required to make it an all-night route, based on a 30 minute frequency, between Hurdman and Terry Fox.

During peak periods, on most routes, ridership counts should be the sole driver, especially on routes that run more often than every 15 minutes. It should assume an articulated bus (use 40 foot buses on routes that run no more than every 15) on most trips, especially peak only runs.

Other than the Transitway routes, the routes that IMO could use the most increases in frequency outside peak periods are the 4, 5, 8, 14, 87, 111, 118, 148, 172 and 176, as follows:

4 - Increase to 5-10 minutes on weekdays at many times, 15 minutes at times on weekends
5 - Increase to 15 minutes midday, 20 minutes on Saturday afternoon - Armstrong Home remains hourly
8 - Increase to 15 minutes early evening, 20 minutes on Sunday afternoon
14 - Increase to 10 minutes off-peak direction, 15 minutes early evening, Saturday morning and Sunday afternoon
87 - Increase to 10 minutes midday, 15 minutes early evening and Saturday most of daytime, 20 minutes on Sunday afternoon, from LeBreton to South Keys; at most times, half of trips end at LeBreton
111 - Increase to 10 minutes midday and early evening with trips to Carleton (generally half) bypassing Billings Bridge; 15 minutes at certain times on weekends (to Billings Bridge)
118 - Increase to 10 minutes midday; 15 minutes early evening and most of day on weekends
148 - Increase to 20 minutes midday; 30 minutes late evening and Sunday afternoon
172 - Increase to 20 minutes midday and Saturday afternoon
176 - Increase to 15 minutes early evening and certain times on weekends as far as Merivale/Slack (or Deakin/Auriga if a turnaround cannot be found); 30 minutes (on normal routing) on Sunday morning and evening

There are a handful of routes or sections where IMO a decrease in frequency or a reduction in service hours are warranted as well.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Cre47

Additional trips on the 12? I guess they are probably just reinstating one or two of the many trips that were cut over the past few years, on that route (and its longer predecessor)

The winter schedule on the 12 brought it almost back up to the equivalent winter schedule for the old 2 on Montreal Road.

OC Transpo cannibalized the route to re-assign buses elsewhere. For three years, customer service denied there was anything unusual about the new and "improved" 12.

I guess the complaints about crowding and shit service on the 12 finally found some ears that aren't deaf.

[lrt's friend]

So typical. Details of fall service have now been posted on OC Transpo website but the Fall service schedule button actually points you to the old schedule, at least at the moment.

[Capital Shaun]

I noticed the yearly fall updates weren't called "Transplan" this year.

I'm not surprised most of the changes this year are minor.

Big changes will be when they start detouring buses due to the LRT construction...

[McC]

sometimes I miss Franky, you too? click:
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2SlmLT...bike-monorail/

[RTWAP]

Originally Posted by McC

sometimes I miss Franky, you too? click:
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/2SlmLT...bike-monorail/

I <3 shweebs.

[Cre47]

Hum maybe should be a good idea to extend the bus-only lanes for the 12 on Montreal Road (see the Citizen article for proof), in light of the insanity this week related to the Highway 174 problems? I'm sure Uhuniau will agree on that one.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/pi...182/story.html

I wish they would do this as well for the stretch of Wellington between Elgin and the Portage Bridge (well at least westbound). With the new bike lane, they've a traffic light at the start of the bus lane of the bridge, slowing even further bus movement in the afternoon.