Does Western Alienation exist, and how can we fix it?

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So does misher, which is even funnier.

I'm also not a he, but that doesn't matter, seems everyones a male online unless proven otherwise.

[Mister F]

I can't say I blame Bcasey25raptor. I can't image that a lot of people in the Lower Mainland, Vancouver Island, and Winnipeg (i.e. most of the population of those provinces) appreciate being lumped in with this wexit BS.

Originally Posted by MacLac

And you say AB is a "one horse economy?" Maybe ON should diversify it's economy away from manufacturing.

It has. Ontario's economy is far more diversified than Alberta's. It relies less on manufacturing than Alberta does on oil, and manufacturing in and of itself is more diversified than resource extraction. That's not a criticism, it's just that economies based on resources tend to be less diversified than ones that aren't.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The oil sands/ resource extraction runs our nation

No it doesn't. While oil is important, our economy is dominated by services, just like every other large, wealthy nation. This widespread belief that our economy runs on stuff we get out of the ground is outdated and, frankly, part of the problem.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Pinus

And that is why I take nothing you say seriously since you have essentially wished nothing but ill will for me and my family simply because of where we live

I could take that as an insult, but I’m still in a warm glow from the Bombers defeat of Calgary. Also I cheer for the Jets for crying out loud!🤨

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Denscity

Yes it's a lot easier to sympathize with a poor quiet province than a rich one with over the top boosterism.

Yes exactly!

Originally Posted by MacLac

And you say AB is a "one horse economy?" Maybe ON should diversify it's economy away from manufacturing. Cuz out here, we're sick and tired of hearing how a car maker is shutting down the 3rd shift of some crappy minivan...a loss of 500 jobs. Whereas here over 100,000 jobs are gone cuz of Mr.Castro Jr.

Actually Ontario is diversified behond manufactruring, but whatever. Do your own research.

Originally Posted by flar

It's Canada's energy, which happens to be located in the Athabasca region and has made Alberta rich, but won't forever.

Short answer for Alberta and Saskatchewan: diversify beyond bitumen and potash. Nobody is stopping you.

Very little sympathy in the ROC. Even less appetite for this to dominate federal politics ad nauseum.

Yes exactly!..Also, in regards to the Athabasca tar sands, Just like The Eastern Provinces' own natural resources riches, which Ontario has in spades (Canadian shield mining anyone?), are Alberta's too. When Newfoundland found Hibernia, they were more then happy to contribute. Anyways you are correct. Too much political attention. Especially for that stupid movement when things are getting a little rough.

Originally Posted by Mister F

No it doesn't. While oil is important, our economy is dominated by services, just like every other large, wealthy nation. This widespread belief that our economy runs on stuff we get out of the ground is outdated and, frankly, part of the problem.

You mean we aren't Venezuela after all?.Canada is more then oil?? . Some trumpet blarers would have us believe otherwise though. That in itself is a huge feat..Try that while beating your chest while celebrating your awesomness..Sarcasm aside, yes..It is important to our economy, and rough times don't last forever. Alberta and Canada will get through this.

[misher]

Originally Posted by Pinus

Haha well, Richmond, of all places

Technically I'm in downtown Vancouver now!

Anyway I feel like this is a stupid argument. Westerners (not just Alberta and Sas but many of us in BC and Manitoba as well) are annoyed at the policies that are being applied to us that curtail our economies. We aren't asking for money, we aren't asking for help, we are just asking to be left alone. And you must understand our bafflement when people in the east are angry because we don't want to listen to them?

To me this feels like a family relationship, you have one adult who is less successful that is being supported by the other telling the one that is more successful what to do because he feels he knows better. Of course, the adult that is more successful thinks he's doing the right thing and is angry that the less successful adult is telling him what to do while taking his money.

Of course the adult thats more successful and supporting the less successful one feels he knows what to do better than the less successful mooch.

So yeah, in summary why can't you just let the West do what it wants to do? Why must you force your policies on the West? We give you money, can't you be happy with that?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by ericmacm

I believe one of the other large aspects of alienation is the population density disconnect between Ontario and Manitoba, which effectively turns Canada's 2 main population corridors into islands. The length of the disconnect between Toronto and Winnipeg is longer than the entire Windsor-Quebec corridor. It makes travel between the two areas more of an endeavour than it needs to be, and creates an actual physical rift between the east and west. The empty area that exists in northern Ontario between Sault Ste. Marie and Winnipeg could definitely benefit from a couple more cities with the population of >200,000 or so, along with growing existing population centres up north to create another population corridor that connects the east and west along the northern Great Lakes.

There are fairly obvious issues with attempting to grow Ontario's north this way, including issues with retention of population, climate, general lack of arable land, and economics. It's also questionable to assume that growing Ontario's north will help with western alienation. However, I would say that Northern Ontario has a lot more in common with the interior provinces, as opposed to highly-developed southern Ontario. Focusing on improving population growth in this area could further raise the ability for these issues to be represented at a federal level, while also creating a stronger physical connection between the two halves of the country, blurring the lines between east and west somewhat.

As someone who lives in Northern Ontario, I have to agree that people in others provinces tend to relate to us well because of how things are here. We have very little power but have a large area with many natural resources. Almost all of the non-Indigenous anger towards government is at the province (Queen's Park, Toronto). It's so bad that we have little time to focus on federal issues.

As for our population issues, there really isn't anywhere in Northern Ontario seeing continuous population growth. The best hope in the future for growth will likely be for Sudbury and North Bay because of their proximity to large markets and connections with 4-lane divided highways.

We are a large gap between the East and West in Canada and many opportunities here are squandered and/or prevented by outside forces. Many people here are saying "give me a break" when they see Albertans complaining because here we have TWO levels of government who often aren't working in our best interests. At least in Alberta they don't ALWAYS have that.

[kel]

It’s funny how some people usually from outside the prairie provinces view WEXIT as a far right movement. There is people on both sides of the political spectrum that support it and don’t support it. In Alberta it seems to be a bigger issue than left or right.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by kel

It’s funny how some people usually from outside the prairie provinces view WEXIT as a far right movement. There is people on both sides of the political spectrum that support it and don’t support it. In Alberta it seems to be a bigger issue than left or right.

There were women's lib and other secular/leftist organizations that participated in the actual street work of the Iranian revolution.

[Bishop2047]

I was living in SK up until 2 years ago. I only heard real grumbling about the "East" once and it really caught me off guard. Each part of Canada has had its time in the sun and times of downturn (I am from Maritimes and live there now and our hay-day was many a year ago). In the Same way that I want to help out those that can't afford medical care and schooling because I am in a position to do so, most in SK at least understood that they were blessed to have lots of dinosaurs die there and in turn they could share the wealth with other areas. Most understood the rationale as they has recently been a "have not" province.

I understand the anger with it would seem the PM will pick and choose which industries he goes to bat for, and that was often talked about at coffee times.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Loco101

As someone who lives in Northern Ontario, I have to agree that people in others provinces tend to relate to us well because of how things are here. We have very little power but have a large area with many natural resources. Almost all of the non-Indigenous anger towards government is at the province (Queen's Park, Toronto). It's so bad that we have little time to focus on federal issues.

As for our population issues, there really isn't anywhere in Northern Ontario seeing continuous population growth. The best hope in the future for growth will likely be for Sudbury and North Bay because of their proximity to large markets and connections with 4-lane divided highways.

We are a large gap between the East and West in Canada and many opportunities here are squandered and/or prevented by outside forces. Many people here are saying "give me a break" when they see Albertans complaining because here we have TWO levels of government who often aren't working in our best interests. At least in Alberta they don't ALWAYS have that.

I’m a Torontonian, age 18-49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

You're a fucking moron.

She definitely is when it comes to this topic and several others.

[vid]

Alberta is like that rich East Indian kid who drove his BMW into a river because it wasn't a Ferrari. They're having a "depression" with better economic vitals than my city, which is saying it's "prospering".

Obviously, we know who the snowflake of confederation is.

But, take it from me. Economic depression isn't too bad. I make less each year than the average Albertan spends on blow in a month and I'm on track to buy a house.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

no, but they are threatening to tear canada apart because they lost an election, that is what I am sick of. and my response is if they want to go that badly, then fine, lets kick them out, see how long alberta lasts without access to BC's ports and Ottawa's money.

Ottawa's money? Let's see how long the rest of you last when you realize that either your taxes will have to increase dramatically or the benefits you receive need to be severely cut. The sense of entitlement from some of you is just about reason enough for AB and SK to leave.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

This response is completely uncalled for. I never personally insulted anyone. I get it you're an albertan and you love the province. I also know you are not one of these mouth breathing idiots throwing a fit, I know not everyone in alberta is like this, but a recent poll showed 37% of albertans supported this wexit nonsense. Your province has an issue with far right extremism and you need to get a handle over it. It's not the ROC's fault that your province has a lot of extremists.

So self-determination is good for everyone but Alberta? Your above claim is complete bullshit. You insult people all of the time. Here's some advice for you and a lot of others here: broaden your sources of information so you don't come across so ignorantly.

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by kel

It’s funny how some people usually from outside the prairie provinces view WEXIT as a far right movement. There is people on both sides of the political spectrum that support it and don’t support it. In Alberta it seems to be a bigger issue than left or right.

Exactly!
*A bill that virtually shuts down the oil industry in Alberta
*A bill that stops oil tankers on BC coast only
*A PM that favours and pits Quebec against the west and primarily Alberta
*A PM who says Quebecers are better than the rest of Canada and that is not questioned on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8igrMJ9L4po

Unequal treatment
*Lack of environmental reviews for QC $1.1B cement plant but Oil industry in west hand-cuffed by environmental reviews
*Exempting Saudi oil from carbon tax and not subjecting it to same environmental regulations imposed on Western Cdn oil

Quebec presents $4-billion surplus for 2019-20 amid booming economy
Premier François Legault’s government presented an economic update Thursday featuring a $4-billion surplus for 2019-20 on top of a revised surplus of $8.3-billion for 2018-19.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...oming-economy/

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Pinus

And let's be clear here. There is no real hatred of Western Canada from those in the east. But there is certainly hatred of eastern Canada from Alberta and Saskatchewan.

Also, just another point about Western Separation. Many include all four western provinces in this. But could someone explain to me how they feel Manitoba and Manitobans would benefit from this? I mean, we are classified as a "have not" province based on economic performances and are basically the forgotten province in the country (this is why I won't give Albertans sympathy because as "badly" as they claim to be treated by Ottawa, they have been treated like royalty compared to us). Should we be stupid enough to join this foolish rebellion, how would it benefit us and make us a stronger province by having law and policy making dictated to us by the kings in Edmonton and/or Calgary? (Because we all know that the capital of this mega faux-pas would be placed in Alberta somewhere) We would still be the whipping boy of the newly formed dominion and treated horribly, probably even worse that we are being treated right now.

Dominion? The main (only?) reason we're in this mess is because the Brits saddled us with policies and institutions meant for subservient colonies. Damn near every major problem in the world can be traced back to those stupid assholes and you want to keep emulating that shit? Manitoba would be a million times better off separated from Canada. How many more times do you need to get fucked over by the Liberal elites in the east before you understand that? For you personally the best solution is probably to move back to Britain since you think they have such a shit hot system.

[vid]

I hope all of your ideas are met with the same enthusiasm as the solutions proposed by the paper and lumber industries in Ontario in the 1990s.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

I'm also not a he, but that doesn't matter, seems everyones a male online unless proven otherwise.

You can at least give me credit for realizing that you're female. I do listen to all sides but when I know something is wrong and/or pure bullshit I'm calling it out.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by vid

But, take it from me. Economic depression isn't too bad. I make less each year than the average Albertan spends on blow in a month and I'm on track to buy a house.

Ya..Tell me about it.I have a cousin who works at a parts desk in a remote Alberta mine making well over 6 figures for it. All the power to him.His job is safe for now, but even though he's originally from Ontario, he bleeds Alberta and is now part of that separatist movement. I sometimes think he forgets that he makes almost a doctor's salary with no professional designation or degree, and often whines about all the taxes he has to pay out when other people doing the same job in other parts of the country and around the world for that matter are earning 1/3 or less of what he makes..I mean. All the power to him, but quite whining about all the taxes you have to pay out when your mouth is full and you are making stupid money for what you do. His isn't isolated either.

Originally Posted by Corndogger

Ottawa's money? Let's see how long the rest of you last when you realize that either your taxes will have to increase dramatically or the benefits you receive need to be severely cut. The sense of entitlement from some of you is just about reason enough for AB and SK to leave.

See above your quote and tell me about entitlement. ^

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Hali87

The impression I get is that nothing other than increased pipeline capacity will placate AB/SK, and that's a tough sell to the ROC. I don't really see this issue going away anytime soon.

This is compounded by the fact that many in AB/SK seem to believe that anthropogenic climate change is a hoax designed to destroy Canada's economy, so the logic behind not supporting pipelines is interpreted as a direct "we literally just hate AB/SK and want them to fail", because they assume that everyone else also assumes that GHGs don't actually matter.

Poll after poll shows that a sizeable majority of Canadians are in favor of more pipelines. As for climate change, just because the MSM refuses to report on data manipulation and data deletion doesn't mean it's not happening. Don't get triggered by what I said. Prove that I'm wrong.