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  #13921  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 8:06 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is online now
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Originally Posted by left of center View Post
allowing the Forest Park and O'Hare branches to split into 2 separate lines (which would loop around the Congess/Dearborn/Lake/Clinton 'superloop', much like the Orange, Brown, Purple and Pink lines currently do on the elevated Loop).

This will allow the CTA to balance out the two lines. Currently, the O'Hare branch has packed trains while the Forest Park branch runs a bunch of empty trains. The CTA can then focus more train service for the Northwest Side and the airport, as opposed to the underused west side line, which has duplicate service with the Green line half a mile to the north.
The blue line O'hare's problem isn't that they don't have enough train cars.
It's butting up against capacity for three reasons. Electricity, headways and train length.
They don't have enough electricty to move any more cars or trains even if they wanted to. The headways are down to 3 minutes now. I doubt that they could ever get below 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 is probably where they will end up. Which will get two more trains an hour.

CTA rail already has the capacity to give every resident of the city their typical 6 mile trip every hour. The problem is they all want to ride the same six miles of the same three rails in the same direction.
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  #13922  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
^ Expand the blue line to accommodate 10 car trains? It’s been talked about with the red line. How about blue as well?
Does anyone know if the new stations along the red line built to load/unload 10 car trains?
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  #13923  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2017, 11:58 PM
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^That's been the standard for decades.
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  #13924  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
The blue line O'hare's problem isn't that they don't have enough train cars.
It's butting up against capacity for three reasons. Electricity, headways and train length.
They don't have enough electricty to move any more cars or trains even if they wanted to. The headways are down to 3 minutes now. I doubt that they could ever get below 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 is probably where they will end up. Which will get two more trains an hour.

CTA rail already has the capacity to give every resident of the city their typical 6 mile trip every hour. The problem is they all want to ride the same six miles of the same three rails in the same direction.

And we cannot produce or obtain more electricity why?
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  #13925  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:38 AM
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^That's been the standard for decades.
Really? Weren't the brown line stations extended for 8 cars not too long ago? Were they built out for 10?
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  #13926  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:39 AM
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CTA trains don't run on batteries. Electricity at 600 volts DC has to be distributed to points all along the lines. That means constructing new substations and distribution lines.
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  #13927  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 2:48 AM
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And we can't do that why again? Is it only cost or will, politics, or even the dreaded shadows?

Or is there a physical reason why we cannot produce enough electricity for the said line?
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  #13928  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:09 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
Really? Weren't the brown line stations extended for 8 cars not too long ago? Were they built out for 10?
I believe they were built such that they could relatively easily be extended again, but that they can't berth ten car trains at present.
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  #13929  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:23 AM
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Cue the transit electric traction engineer wonk with all the DC this AC that and 13,000 Mhz this and 25,000 Mhz that... god knows I don't understand most of it...
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  #13930  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 3:56 AM
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Originally Posted by bnk View Post
And we can't do that why again? Is it only cost or will, politics, or even the dreaded shadows?

Or is there a physical reason why we cannot produce enough electricity for the said line?
Money, mostly.
The kind of money it takes a decade to get and the kind of money that get put off whenever you go, hat in hand, to beg for money to deal with any of the other emergencies that will happen during that decade.
Here, read this:
http://chi.streetsblog.org/wp-conten..._FINAL_002.pdf
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  #13931  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 5:19 PM
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Not to push my version of the Clinton/Larabee subway, but I think branching it from the red line would make the most sense initially. I'd eventually like to see it extended beneath Clybourn along the North Branch. The North Branch won't truly be competitive as an office market until it's more easily accessible to people who don't live on the north side or in north shore suburbs. Allowing people to get there from Union and Ogilvie at a minimum is crucial in my opinion.
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  #13932  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2017, 8:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Downtown View Post
^That's been the standard for decades.
No, 8 cars is the (general) CTA standard. New stations like Morgan, Cermak-McCormick, etc all have 8-car platforms even if they don't see 8-car trains in normal service.

Oakton was kind of a special case... I believe it was value-engineered down to a 4-car platform, but was designed in such a way that it can be expanded to 8 cars later by converting a walkway leading to the north headhouse.

On the Red Line specifically, CTA has been doing some advance planning for ten-car trains. I believe Howard was the first station to open with an actual ten-car platform, the length is 520'. The new Wilson also has a 520' platform. Probably the new 95th will, as well, and any new stations built as part of RPM.

Fullerton and Belmont only have a 420' platform, but have the structure in place to extend the platforms later at minimal cost. They may choose to build this extension as part of the Belmont Flyover contract.
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  #13933  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 6:36 PM
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Because its so well served, I dont see major tenants with hundreds or thousands of employees leaving the Loop any time soon. I feel that the West Loop/Fulton Market will remain more of a niche office market, with smaller tenants and fewer employees. It won't realistically be able to sustain more than that. It will compliment the Loop, rather than rival it.

The Clinton Street subway would be a huge help with transit connections. The best aspect of it is that it would create a huge underground Loop for the Blue Line, allowing the Forest Park and O'Hare branches to split into 2 separate lines (which would loop around the Congess/Dearborn/Lake/Clinton 'superloop', much like the Orange, Brown, Purple and Pink lines currently do on the elevated Loop). This will allow the CTA to balance out the two lines. Currently, the O'Hare branch has packed trains while the Forest Park branch runs a bunch of empty trains. The CTA can then focus more train service for the Northwest Side and the airport, as opposed to the underused west side line, which has duplicate service with the Green line half a mile to the north.
Your comment about the Blue Line Franklin Park trains being empty is patently incorrect. Or, maybe I just am not noticing this at the Washington Blue Line stop I cannot find a seat on the train to sit down on my way toward Forest Park in evening rush.
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  #13934  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2017, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
Your comment about the Blue Line Franklin Park trains being empty is patently incorrect. Or, maybe I just am not noticing this at the Washington Blue Line stop I cannot find a seat on the train to sit down on my way toward Forest Park in evening rush.
I commuted from Forest Park to the Medical Center between 2002 and 2009, and I usually never had too much of an issue with finding a seat. I would board the inbound trains at 7:30 am and outbound at 5:30 pm. Compare that to the O'Hare blue during rush; forget finding a seat, try to fight for a spot to stand.

Outside of rush hour, the Forest Park trains are pretty lightly used, especially in the overnight hours. The trains literally run empty along Congress between 11 pm to 5 am. Service adjustments could be made independent of the volume on the O'Hare branch if they were 2 separate lines. It would give the CTA a lot more flexibility.
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  #13935  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 6:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
On the Red Line specifically, CTA has been doing some advance planning for ten-car trains. I believe Howard was the first station to open with an actual ten-car platform, the length is 520'. The new Wilson also has a 520' platform. Probably the new 95th will, as well, and any new stations built as part of RPM.

Fullerton and Belmont only have a 420' platform, but have the structure in place to extend the platforms later at minimal cost. They may choose to build this extension as part of the Belmont Flyover contract.

Are the non-loop subway platforms on the 420' format (so Clybourne, Division, Chicago, Grand, Harrison, Roosevelt)?
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  #13936  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2017, 7:54 PM
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Don't they turn some Forest Park trains back West of Racine or IMD to reduce excess capacity on Forest Park line? I know they can, and I thought they actually do.

Edit: off-rush, they do turn back half of the trains West of Halsted according to the published schedule.
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  #13937  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 6:24 AM
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What blows my mind is that the Pink Line only runs 4 car trains. You'd think a line plowing through the heart of super dense areas like West Loop, IMD, Pilsen, and Little Village (not to mention all the way out into Cicero) would have the ridership to require bigger trains. That line quite possibly has the most slack for TOD type developments out of any in the system besides the Green Line which just runs through vacant lots for 75% of it's course.
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  #13938  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JK47 View Post
Are the non-loop subway platforms on the 420' format (so Clybourne, Division, Chicago, Grand, Harrison, Roosevelt)?
It’s been discussed before in this thread... I can’t easily measure underground platforms in Google Maps, but I’ve heard the subway platforms are just barely long enough for ten cars, which would put them around 480’-500’. There’s no room for error, which causes problems when human motormen have to berth the trains. Some kind of assist technology would probably be needed to berth the trains quickly and reliably without trapping the folks in the last car...

As for the Pink Line, all platforms are already capable of 8 car trains. I have to imagine CTA would run longer trains in a heartbeat if they thought the demand was there. The only limitation is the size of the fleet, but with a new rail car order in process, now would be the time to order more. We’ll see what CTA does once the new 7000s get delivered.

I ride the Pink Line a decent amount, and it’s rarely crowded to the point of being uncomfortable, even at peak. Yes, it goes through dense neighborhoods, but not ones with a ton of downtown workers who commute at the peak of the peak. A lot of the commuters on the Pink Line are medical workers, students, and service workers who probably don’t work a regular 9-5. I’m worried that CTA will eventually decide to run 6-car trains, but less often, to free up more spots for the Brown and Purple Line on the Loop. I’d rather cram into a more crowded train that comes more often, if I get where I’m going sooner.
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  #13939  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2017, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
What blows my mind is that the Pink Line only runs 4 car trains. You'd think a line plowing through the heart of super dense areas like West Loop, IMD, Pilsen, and Little Village (not to mention all the way out into Cicero) would have the ridership to require bigger trains. That line quite possibly has the most slack for TOD type developments out of any in the system besides the Green Line which just runs through vacant lots for 75% of it's course.
That’s because it hasn’t been “discovered” yet by evil developers and their evil armies of yuppies who drink fancy cocktails
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  #13940  
Old Posted Dec 24, 2017, 9:18 AM
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Van Buren Street Bridge Reconstruction

November 29, 2017



December 21, 2017

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