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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2008, 12:57 AM
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One thing I notice is that on the map in the newsletter they show that part of South Park will be included, but only halfway down the block between SGR and Brenton Pl. Given the Trillium development this doesn't make sense.

The map also says "Dresden Road".

There are obviously tons of simple improvements that can be made - bury the lines, re-pave the street, widen the sidewalks, add new lighting and street furniture.

Beyond all this I'd like to see a future plan to expand the area a bit. Dresden Row should also be improved. South Park to South St and SGR between South Park and Robie could be developed somewhat so that they're more along the lines of what already exists along the main stretch of retail. Both Dresden Row and South Park have already on their own developed somewhat more without involvement of the city, and there's room for another building on the Clyde Street lot. That could accommodate a significant retail tenant.
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2008, 10:38 AM
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Spring Garden: Upgrade or ‘die’
Malls winning retail fight, architect warns
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Thu. Sep 18 - 4:46 AM



People gathered Wednesday night for the Spring Garden Street Scape Project meeting were able to view some possible changes proposed for the area by viewing photographs and street plans from around the world. (Ted Pritchard / Staff)





Halifax’s key shopping street needs a major overhaul to fend off death at the hands of suburban malls, a local architect says.

"If we don’t start paying attention to Spring Garden Road, then it’s going to die," Hugh Davison said.

The downtown architect was one of about 100 people who turned out Wednesday night to a streetscaping workshop for the busy commercial street.

Members of the Terrain Group planners from Dartmouth and from Alan Baxter & Associates, an urban design firm from London, England, were on hand to explain some of the changes they’re proposing, based on public input and one-on-one interviews with street merchants.

"The window dressing is great, but the fact is, the street is pretty ugly," Terrain’s Barry Yanchyshyn told the group gathered in a ballroom at the Lord Nelson Hotel.

The South Park Street hotel anchors one border of the Spring Garden Road streetscape plan, while the other lies four blocks down at Queen Street.

At a projected cost of about $3 million, the upgrades focus on the street’s busiest parts and could include underground wiring, wider sidewalks outfitted with pavers, new street furniture and lights, upgraded bus shelters and installations of public art.

The street needs a major upgrade, Mr. Davison said in an interview after the presentation.

"Everyone at the city is always saying that Spring Garden Road is the busiest shopping area east of God knows where, and look at the place, it’s a dump."

While the proposed cosmetic changes would tidy up the street’s cluttered appearance, some of the other proposals — like integrating loading zones into a newly expanded sidewalk area — are also good news, said a Spring Garden storeowner.

"The trucks, the loading and the parking on Spring Garden Road are huge problems but easily fixed," Kurt Bulger, owner of Jennifers of Nova Scotia.

It would help if the city came up with some rules and guidelines, like permitting loading only before 11 a.m., he said.

"Somebody needs to take ownership in this town. Currently, there’s no control."

Mr. Bulger was hesitant to point to too many other drawbacks.

"Spring Garden Road, for all its foibles and screw-ups, still works," he said. "So, be very careful about the changes that you make because small changes in a town like this could be huge."

The executive director of the Spring Garden Area Merchants Association echoed those words. Bernie Smith said he has a list of retailers ready and willing to set up shop on the street as it is.

"Oh, if only I could enter into leases, we could lease 40,000 square feet right away," he said in an interview. "So we just want to make sure that we don’t kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

"We need to get the right combination and we’ll just be mortified if we don’t."

Mr. Smith does allow that some quick fixes are in order.

"Some of the poles on the street are certainly left over from the electric trolleys and, I would claim, streetcars. So it’s time we brought it into the present century."

Input from the meeting will go into the final design for the street. The plan is then expected to be presented to council for advanced budget approval in the coming months.

( apugsley@herald.ca)
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 22, 2008, 8:39 PM
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So has anybody heard anything on this during the last few months?

I was down the street today and i can say for sure that this needs to be upgraded. The sidewalks are way too narrow for the amount of people on them.
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 1:10 AM
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So I was in the barbers the other day, getting my head buzzed on #2 clip as usuall, and my attention was drawn to a tall and lanky, old English bloke with a bald head. He was holding a roll of blueprints, which he then proceeded to unroll and show to all the people sitting, waiting for there turn. Turns out they where blueprints of the proposed changes to SGR. And he turned out to be the president of the SGR business assosiation...or something like that. Anyways, he went on quiet a rant to everyone preasant about how he was seriosly opposed to the proposal and told everyone that there was going to be a "major row" over these changes. He said he was for a slight widening of the street...but everything else he was against. He didn't want any loss of parking "where are the customers going to park?" he said. And he was staunchly against any tree's "can you imagine TREE'S on spring garden?!!" he asked everone (and they all agreed like spineless jellyfish) He then said...and "worst off they want to put BENCHES along the street"..."Can you imagine all the KIDS that will be sitting on them?" he asked, sounding like a typical grumpy old man. and I'm thinkin' to my self...WTF!!...is this city ever going to progress with deadwood like this at the helm...don't get me wrong though...I know I have revealed that I grew up in Toronto, and so to some it might sound like an upper Canadian complaining about the way things work around here, so let me assure you, I love this city and plan to raise a family here, it's my new home. But when you have the head of the second most important street in pennisular Hali, moaning about IMPROVMENTS to his street, I just end up saying to myself....WTF
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 1:18 AM
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That would have been Bernie Smith. Bernie is a smart fellow, a good guy, and I can understand his point of view. After all, he represents the businesses that are located there, not the city at large. Some things that are good for the populace at large are bad for his members: loss of parking, inability for trucks to make deliveries, increased number of loiterers on benches outside said businesses, trees that get in the way of pedestrian flow, etc. He has every right to say what he said, because he's just doing his job. I'm not saying he's correct, but I understand where he's coming from.
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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
He has every right to say what he said, because he's just doing his job.
never did I say he didn't have the right to toot his own horn...this isn't Stalin's Russia...I just think that if he had the LONG term health and vitality of SGR road in mind, then he would see the many benifits of this project. We are not trying to reinvent the wheel here...take a look at some of the most succsesfull retail street's across North America and Europe. SGR is a bit dumpy comparied to the best examples, and the best is what we should be striving for. Lack of street parking?...what is this the 1950's?...check out the 4th st. proaminad in Santa Monica...there's no parking at all!!...in fact there's no veicles at all!!. I remember reading a plaque when I was there, that said when it was first proposed that no traffic shoud be allowed on 4th st., that it should be for pedestrians only, the business owners where very concered that the lack of parking for there customers would result in such a loss of business that they would go out of business...well they couldn't have been more wrong...in fact there was SO much increaced business that all the property owners raised the rent in the retail units so high that none of the origanall occupants could afford to remain in businsess. It all became high end which is what I think SGR road should be. and yes they have pleanty of tree's and benches.and just check out european shopping districts...No tree's or benches?...no, that would be more remanisant of Stalin's Russia
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 2:03 AM
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I am all for this redevlopment. I think widening the sidwalks and putting the the wires underground improving the public realm need to be done for sure. However, I worry changing things to much might hurt whatever is working for Spring Garden currently to make it such a successful street.
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 2:58 AM
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I'm hearing from a very knowlegable source that the whole thing may be abandoned for at least this summer. Lot of pissed off shop owners talking about ruining their most profitable time of the year. And the sheer lack of ability for city officials to decide what the hell they want to do with SGR.
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  #29  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 3:33 AM
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I think this is a great project, but I must say I always thought that the idea of tearing apart SGR in the middle of tourist season didn't make a whole lot of sense. If I recall, the start date of the project is right in the middle of summer, when those shops are probably doing the most business.

That being said, I think this project will be great for the district in the long run, and while I'm not looking forward to the mess that we will likely have while the project is going on, I definitely think it will be worth it.

I would like to see less vehicle traffic on Spring Garden, although I'm not sure where it would go instead...
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  #30  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 3:35 AM
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The story of Halifax... complain and delay until it's dead.

How much benefit does on street parking really offer most of the businesses on SGR? Parking is minimal, and most of the businesses on SGR aren't quick stops, so I'd argue that 90%+ of the people spending time on SGR during a given day aren't parking there anyway. Improving things for pedestrians and making it a more pedestrian friendly environment can only help.

I -can- sympathize with the disruptions it would cause while under construction, especially given the economic situation and needing every customer they can get, but... putting it off isn't going to help in the long run.

Not understanding most of his complaints.

I'd love to see the city take some bold, positive steps for a change.
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2009, 4:00 AM
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I don't take it as an insult. Look how developed, prosperous, and cultural Toronto has become. Halifax needs a kick in the pants...
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 2:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
The story of Halifax... complain and delay until it's dead.
And that seems to be where it's going. Spring Garden Road is being bumped. Spring Garden's loss is South Park, Quinpool and Octerloney's gain. Here's a link to the staff report that council will be considering tomorrow.
http://www.halifax.ca/council/agenda...0224ca1114.pdf
The Spring Garden Road Merchants are really behaving like small-thinking dinosaurs. As has been said, parking on Spring Garden is of minimal benefit. It's the same story concerning the lots behind them on Clyde Street. The SGRMA seems to be scared of everything and as a result doesn't want to see anything change, even if it could be change for the better. It's really unfortunate since Spring Garden could really be great, but it's not going to live up to its potential as long as the merchant's hold onto the space wasting ashfault.

Last edited by spaustin; Feb 24, 2009 at 2:14 AM.
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 2:13 AM
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Its sad to see this not go ahead this year but hopefully one of the others can proceed.

Whats the plan for the South Park Fares project?
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  #34  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 3:22 AM
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They should at least be burying the lines on all above mentioned streets regardless of futher development plans.
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  #35  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 3:24 AM
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It never really made sense to do this at the height of summer.

I agree that the short term parking obsession is silly. Who exactly relies on finding a parking spot right in front of a store on Spring Garden Road? Are there even that many spots? Are they at all reliable?

Deliveries are important, sure, but on-street parking is not for downtown retail. Most people are not parking there at all and those who are can use structured parking. There could be MORE parking for the area if they replaced those lots with buildings. Residents also contribute far more to business than a surface lot.

The people who won't pay the $5 to park and can't walk a few blocks won't go downtown to begin with.
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  #36  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 4:28 AM
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My question is can you even park legally on SGR? The last I checked it was all loading zones or bus stops.

Really if the city invested some money it could fix the parking problems. They could;

-Add more parking to Park Lane (might not be possible due to the condo building on top),

-Redevelop the Clyde Street lots and require more parking be built,

-Or I was having a look on Live Maps and the building footprints on the Park Lane block leave a L-shaped gap in the middle. The city could make layered parking of some sorts in that area.

There is one thing I hope happens though for SGR. The four or so buildings on the corner of SGR and Dresdon should be redeveloped into a small mid-rise residential building (where Tim Hortons is located).
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  #37  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 5:41 AM
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Does the existing Park Lane parkade even fill up? It has something like 11 levels. Many of the other major developments in the area also have extra underground parking.

The city doesn't need to pay to put in parking as developers are happy to build in the area. As for the Clyde Street lots, those should have been built up years ago. There's no real argument for artificially keeping underdeveloped surface lots in an area that is increasingly packed with large scale developments.
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  #38  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 12:12 PM
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'Nuts' to no cars idea
Spring Garden Road business owners don’t want street restricted to pedestrians only
By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Tue. Feb 24 - 5:35 AM

CLOSING SPRING GARDEN Road to cars and turning the busy Halifax shopping street into a pedestrian mall would kill it, a store owner says.

"It’s nuts," Ross McNeil, the owner of Dugger’s Menswear, said Monday.

"The whole benefit of the street is to make it easy access for the customer. And the mere fact that (shoppers) can drive down and pick up a parcel, or drop somebody off right at the door, is why it works."

A recent consultant’s report recommends taking cars off the street to make the area more pedestrian-friendly. Buses and taxis could stay. But at a public workshop last fall, consultants unveiled their vision for the street and there was no mention of getting rid of cars or widening sidewalks.

In fact, the $3 million in upgrades proposed for the stretch of Spring Garden between South Park and Queen streets focused on underground wiring, sidewalks outfitted with pavers, new street furniture and lights, upgraded bus shelters and installations of public art.

That’s all good, Mr. McNeil said.

"It’s just a few million dollars. In the big picture, it’s peanuts," he said. "So clean up the sidewalks, put in some nice lighting and make it esthetically pleasing."

Taking away cars would mean taking away business, another shop owner said.

"That’s what makes Spring Garden Road vibrant — the traffic, the buses, the hustle and bustle," said Rick Pratt, who has owned Winsbys Shoes for 16 years.

"There are lots of pedestrian malls around North America that are disaster areas, no one goes there anymore. They become bar and restaurant only," he said, citing the Sparks Street Mall in Ottawa as an example.

"I was there last year and it’s a joke. You think, ‘Whatever happened to all these people?’ Well, they all went bankrupt."

Restricting Spring Garden Road to just taxis and buses would be a mistake, said the head of the street’s merchants association.

"You can’t do things like that to a main street without putting supports around it," Bernie Smith said.

Spring Garden Road is a main shopping and retail district that merchants have spent a lot of time trying to enhance, he said.

"We’re ready for some sort of a makeover, but this is radical stuff."

No traffic model has been done on the street to determine exactly where the prohibited cars would go, Mr. Smith said.

"Why would we sign on to that when we don’t know what the impacts are?" he said.

"It’s a busy place in an urban setting and we don’t think that de-urbanizing it is to be entered into lightly."

The merchants association put the kibosh on the plan at a meeting last week, and Mr. Smith is worried that the money allocated for it in this year’s city budget will go to another project.

"We’re worried that we won’t get the issue put on the agenda for a long, long time," he said.

The councillor for the area echoed those concerns.

"Right now, the street works," Coun. Dawn Sloane (Halifax Downtown) said Monday.

"People love flocking to the area."

She said city staff tried to push for the "whole enchilada," even though the consensus on the street is it needs only cosmetic upgrades.

Now the money could be lost to streetscape projects on Quinpool Road and Ochterloney Street, she said.

Mr. McNeil said Spring Garden Road store owners aren’t "a bunch of moaning retailers. This is local merchants who put a ton of money into their buildings and who pay the highest tax base in the province. And so (just fixing) potholes and broken curbs doesn’t cut it."

He said he pays about $10,000 a month in commercial taxes to the city.

"Fix up the road, bury the wires and give us something nice," he said.
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  #39  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 1:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ View Post
There is one thing I hope happens though for SGR. The four or so buildings on the corner of SGR and Dresdon should be redeveloped into a small mid-rise residential building (where Tim Hortons is located).
You should check with SPAUSTIN about that, he modelled most of those buildings for SimCity4. He might not like it.
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  #40  
Old Posted Feb 24, 2009, 10:42 PM
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"Fix up the road, bury the wires and give us something nice," he said.
What the hell??? I thought that's exactly what the plan was!! Last I heard, they wanted to bury the wires, make nicer and wider sidewalks for pedestrians, and make it a nice place for people to come to. Did I completely misunderstand the plan for SGR? I never heard anything about getting rid of cars on the road.

Ugh this city drives me crazy sometimes!!
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