Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

IMO, the line should NOT be extended - ridership potential is too low. Maybe during peak periods to Leitrim, but that is it.

On the other hand, an extension the other way - to Gatineau - would be much more valuable and important.

yes, Ottawa taxes should be spent on an extension to Gatineau. This makes a whole lot of sense.

Regardless, it was also stated that there is no money to do this extension until AFTER 2031. Isn't this a surprise? I think I was missing something when the TMP was approved that included complete electric service BEFORE 2031. But hey, haven't I said that we are blowing the budget on the Tunney's to Blair project and no further additions will be built for many years.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

yes, Ottawa taxes should be spent on an extension to Gatineau. This makes a whole lot of sense.

Ottawa taxpayers travel to Gatineau in the thousands every workday.

Let's take your sarcument further: Gatineau taxes should be spent on an extension to Ottawa. This makes a whole lot of sense.

In other words, since no one's taxes should be spent on transit crossing the river, transit shouldn't cross the river. Set up a transfer station - for buses, naturally - EXACTLY on the border, right on the bridge, and preserve each city's and province's precious taxes.

Regardless, it was also stated that there is no money to do this extension until AFTER 2031.

There are better things to blow money on, apparently, then eminently logical, sensible, and relatively cheap transit projects.

This town is so ass-backwards and conservative it's not even funny.

Hey - by the way, anyone seen the NCC's interprovincial transit study that was scheduled for completion LAST year?

[reidjr]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Ottawa taxpayers travel to Gatineau in the thousands every workday.

Let's take your sarcument further: Gatineau taxes should be spent on an extension to Ottawa. This makes a whole lot of sense.

In other words, since no one's taxes should be spent on transit crossing the river, transit shouldn't cross the river. Set up a transfer station - for buses, naturally - EXACTLY on the border, right on the bridge, and preserve each city's and province's precious taxes.



There are better things to blow money on, apparently, then eminently logical, sensible, and relatively cheap transit projects.

This town is so ass-backwards and conservative it's not even funny.

Hey - by the way, anyone seen the NCC's interprovincial transit study that was scheduled for completion LAST year?

The way money is spent in Ottawa i don't think you can say its conservative.

[Aylmer]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

yes, Ottawa taxes should be spent on an extension to Gatineau. This makes a whole lot of sense.

Well, every trip made to Gatineau turns a profit for Ottawa. It makes as much sense as building an extension in Ottawa.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Well, every trip made to Gatineau turns a profit for Ottawa.

Not saying this is false, but in light of the usual transit revenue and financing rapports, why would this be the case?

[toaster]

Has Gatineau explicitly stated they wouldn't help fund an O-Train extension? I know people thought the approval of Rapid-bus was essentially saying No to Ottawa and O-Train, but not sure if it was said outright.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by toaster

Has Gatineau explicitly stated they wouldn't help fund an O-Train extension? I know people thought the approval of Rapid-bus was essentially saying No to Ottawa and O-Train, but not sure if it was said outright.

I am pretty sure it is not even on the table.

[KHOOLE]

Are there any recent studies existing that would have studied the potential ridership of the O-Train by passengers arriving at the airport as well as going to the airport?

Col By Driveway is saturated with taxis and private vehicles doing these trips via Bronson and the Airport Parkway. The Airport Parkway is itself pretty much close to maximum capacity and no relief in sight.

Somebody somewhere must be doing some kind of cursery study because the writing is on the wall and planners are hired to do just that: to plan ahead!

If one can land at Schiphol Airport and take the train to downtown Amsterdam for lunch and a beer between two flights, why can't the international airport of Canada's Capital City not have equivalent amenities to accomodate travellers?

The same goes for Gatineau. It has been estimated (studies anyone?) that 50,000 Gatinois and 25,000 Ottawans cross the Ottawa River bridges in our region TWICE a day on workdays alone. Ottawa owns the Prince of Wales Bridge and it is sitting there rusting away and totally unused.

Is there any logic to all of this?

[BlackRedGold]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Ottawa taxpayers travel to Gatineau in the thousands every workday.

Let's take your sarcument further: Gatineau taxes should be spent on an extension to Ottawa. This makes a whole lot of sense.

In other words, since no one's taxes should be spent on transit crossing the river, transit shouldn't cross the river. Set up a transfer station - for buses, naturally - EXACTLY on the border, right on the bridge, and preserve each city's and province's precious taxes.

Increasing transportation links between the two cities improves Gatineau property values which decreases Ottawa property values.

[lrt's friend]

It defies logic that OC Transpo would profit from extending the O-Train into Gatineau beyond the Government buildings. Basically, we would assume the cost of running the service, while most Gatineau passengers would continue to pay their fares to STO to reach the O-Train. Sure a small percentage would be walk on and pay to OC Transpo, but the lack of density in Gatineau would mean that most passengers would use a bus and then transfer. It would be a money loser. If we were ever to do this, there would have to be a cost sharing arrangement. I am not opposed to extending rail service into Gatineau but I think cost sharing would absolutely be necessary.

What is more worrisome is the whole concept of extending the O-Train and offering a service that bypasses downtown. Do you not realize the impact? What we ultimately would be doing is creating an enormous transit bottleneck at Bayview. Studies have already indicated that the tunnel cannot handle both Gatineau and Ottawa passengers. We would be foolish to do this? It also illustrates the total folly of our 2006 decision to cancel the surface rail line downtown. That could have served as a second rail line into downtown that could have served Gatineau passengers as well as those from Ottawa South. So much for the stupid comments that surface rail would be redundant when a tunnel was built. We do need two major transit routes into downtown and for another reason. We cannot be left with only one transit route through downtown in the event of any disruption. As long as Rapid Bus funnels into downtown Ottawa, we have it. But if we push everybody into the tunnel and something goes wrong, we would face almost total transit paralysis. The remaining bus system and the loss of downtown Transitway connections would leave us in a total mess.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Increasing transportation links between the two cities improves Gatineau property values which decreases Ottawa property values.

This is not a good reason for not improving transportation links and this includes new bridges. In any event, Quebec language laws will always hold property values in Gatineau down.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This is not a good reason for not improving transportation links and this includes new bridges. In any event, Quebec language laws will always hold property values in Gatineau down.

That and other factors: political uncertainty, higher income taxes, concerns about health care...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Increasing transportation links between the two cities improves Gatineau property values which decreases Ottawa property values.

This is an unfortunate and properly inaccurate mindset. Property values can very well increase in both Gatineau and Ottawa. They do not necessarily evolve in proportionately opposite directions.

[waterloowarrior]

LRT Improvement Updates

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...%20OLRT%20.htm

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

This report provides an update on some design improvements on Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit (OLRT) project and seeks approval to advance the bundling of the Highway 417-Widening project with the OLRT project.

Design Updates
The following provides an update on some of the design modifications that have been undertaken to improve the OLRT project. Design refinements will continue throughout the procurement process and a final design will be presented to Council for approval at contract award in December 2012.

Rideau Station Alignment

As directed by Council, work has advanced to meet Council’s objective of minimizing the depth, and expanding the catchment area of Rideau Station. This work included a focused engineering review of the Rideau Station area of the tunnel alignment. This review determined it was feasible to shift Rideau Station’s location from under the Rideau Canal to east of Sussex Drive. This shift grants increased flexibility to Proponents as they continue to optimize station placement, entrances and construction methods to meet the project budget.

Moving the station eastward on Rideau Street will also give access to the ByWard Market, reduce the depth of the station, and increase the station catchment area. It will also provide a better transit solution by balancing the ridership at the station entrances and by providing entrances closer to transit riders’ origins and destinations.







Other Design Updates

This report also provides updates on design improvements at Train and Bayview stations and on the alignment at the West Portal, where the line enters the Escarpment.







Design changes will continue to occur throughout the procurement process as the private sector teams competing to construct the system are responsible for advancing and completing the preliminary or indicative designs previously presented to Council. Council will have ultimate approval of the design prior to contract award in December 2012. This approval will occur after Infrastructure Ontario has led the evaluation of the three submissions, the selection of the Preferred Proponent and the negotiation of a final agreement. Each Proponent team has full flexibility to propose the best design and construction plan/schedule on which they can guarantee delivery and price. This flexibility is the foundation of the Alternative Financing and Procurement (AFP) delivery model.

Highway 417 Bundling

To eliminate the risk of costly delay, mitigate transit disruption and to maximize innovation, the City has requested that the Province of Ontario consider bundling the Ministry of Transportation’s (MTO) Highway 417-Widening project together with Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit project. With the support of Infrastructure Ontario, the City proposed undertaking these projects together with a single competition and single responsible private sector team charged with constructing both projects on a common schedule. This would allow the selected Proponent full control of both project schedules and consequently allow the City to hold a single party responsible for performance. The Province supports the proposed bundling approach. This report seeks Council authority for the Deputy City Manager, Planning and Infrastructure to negotiate and enter into an appropriate agreement with the Ministry of Transportation Ontario (MTO) on the City’s behalf to bundle the Highway 417-widening project with Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit Project, as described in this report and to direct staff to make appropriate amendments to the OLRT project procurement documents.

[kevinbottawa]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

LRT Improvement Updates

http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/cit...%20OLRT%20.htm

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

This report provides an update on some design improvements on Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit (OLRT) project and seeks approval to advance the bundling of the Highway 417-Widening project with the OLRT project.

Design Updates
The following provides an update on some of the design modifications that have been undertaken to improve the OLRT project. Design refinements will continue throughout the procurement process and a final design will be presented to Council for approval at contract award in December 2012.

Rideau Station Alignment

As directed by Council, work has advanced to meet Council’s objective of minimizing the depth, and expanding the catchment area of Rideau Station. This work included a focused engineering review of the Rideau Station area of the tunnel alignment. This review determined it was feasible to shift Rideau Station’s location from under the Rideau Canal to east of Sussex Drive. This shift grants increased flexibility to Proponents as they continue to optimize station placement, entrances and construction methods to meet the project budget.

Moving the station eastward on Rideau Street will also give access to the ByWard Market, reduce the depth of the station, and increase the station catchment area. It will also provide a better transit solution by balancing the ridership at the station entrances and by providing entrances closer to transit riders’ origins and destinations.







Other Design Updates

This report also provides updates on design improvements at Train and Bayview stations and on the alignment at the West Portal, where the line enters the Escarpment.







Design changes will continue to occur throughout the procurement process as the private sector teams competing to construct the system are responsible for advancing and completing the preliminary or indicative designs previously presented to Council. Council will have ultimate approval of the design prior to contract award in December 2012. This approval will occur after Infrastructure Ontario has led the evaluation of the three submissions, the selection of the Preferred Proponent and the negotiation of a final agreement. Each Proponent team has full flexibility to propose the best design and construction plan/schedule on which they can guarantee delivery and price. This flexibility is the foundation of the Alternative Financing and Procurement (AFP) delivery model.

Highway 417 Bundling

To eliminate the risk of costly delay, mitigate transit disruption and to maximize innovation, the City has requested that the Province of Ontario consider bundling the Ministry of Transportation’s (MTO) Highway 417-Widening project together with Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit project. With the support of Infrastructure Ontario, the City proposed undertaking these projects together with a single competition and single responsible private sector team charged with constructing both projects on a common schedule. This would allow the selected Proponent full control of both project schedules and consequently allow the City to hold a single party responsible for performance. The Province supports the proposed bundling approach. This report seeks Council authority for the Deputy City Manager, Planning and Infrastructure to negotiate and enter into an appropriate agreement with the Ministry of Transportation Ontario (MTO) on the City’s behalf to bundle the Highway 417-widening project with Ottawa’s Light Rail Transit Project, as described in this report and to direct staff to make appropriate amendments to the OLRT project procurement documents.

I don't usually comment on transit 'cause I don't know anything about it, but I like the changes to Bayview Station and the changes at the Train Station make sense. With moving Rideau Station east of Sussex it looks like there will no longer be a subway entrance near the NAC; too bad. I wonder if the NAC will still want to add an atrium on the Elgin side without that foot traffic. But I like that they have a proposed subway entrance on the William Street pedestrian mall. That will be amazing for the market.

On a side note, are they proposing to have entrances on Rideau Street where the stores are supposed to be? If so, that's weird.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by reidjr

The way money is spent in Ottawa i don't think you can say its conservative.

Why not?

Ottawa a VERY fiscally conservative town, to the point of stupidity. People here are utterly convinced they pay the highest municipal taxes in the country (they don't), and scream like banshees at even the smallest tax increase.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold

Increasing transportation links between the two cities improves Gatineau property values which decreases Ottawa property values.

I'd like to see some objective stats on that. Thanks!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It defies logic that OC Transpo would profit from extending the O-Train into Gatineau beyond the Government buildings.

Indeed it does! I'd like to get my hands on whoever suggested that.

[Uhuniau]

So the shitty connection between LRT underground, and trunk bus routes on Bank, is still on the drawing board?

Damn, it'd be nice if some people who use transit had some say in the design of our transit system.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kevinbottawa

But I like that they have a proposed subway entrance on the William Street pedestrian mall. That will be amazing for the market.

No, it *would* be.

"Proposed".

Is this another of those "in the future" "by others" features?