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  #21  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 7:15 PM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Originally Posted by Stingray2004 View Post
Yeah, the Cariboo Connector is projected to come in around $2 billion, but that twinning won't be completed for at least another 30 - 40 years due to relatively lower traffic counts.

And even then it will not be freeway standard -there will be no new interchanges - it will just be a "junior" 4-lane expressway standard highway.
And that's a complete and utter joke. Any other jurisdiction in the western world would be building a freeway, but not BC. Nope, they cheap out for long term pain. Look at highway 1 though Hope, Chilliwack, Abbotsford and Langley. Imagine if they had cheaped out by putting all the lanes together. Then when land is very expensive, it would cost triple to price to expand to 3 lanes each way. They have the luxury of adding lanes in the middle because of the grass median.

BTW, the Cariboo connector has more traffic than Hope to Abbotsford had when the properly twinned the highway.

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Originally Posted by Mininari View Post

That makes complete sense.

But what about Cache Creek to Kamloops?

Or is the eventually 4-laned Caribou Connector going to be "disconnected" from the rest of the 4-lane network?
The original plan was to actually build a new 4 lane highway from 70 Mile House straight down to Kamloops where it would cross the Thompson at Singh Street and up Summit Dr. to highway 1 with another good connection to the Halston Connector (over to highway 5). Local politics means the governments are unwilling to bypass Cache Creek since they still feel bad about the Coq. doing so.
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  #22  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 7:33 PM
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240glt 240glt is offline
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I'm all for highway improvements in the area, but I have to wonder, is there that much traffic coming west on the #1 to warrant that kind of infrastructure ? Anyone coming via Northern Alberta would go hwy 16, and even from southern Alberta it'd probably be faster to travel north on hwy 2 to Edmonton and go west from there.

If they're expecting that kind of volume increase on 97 from Cache Creek to PG then inevitably they're going to need to consider upgrades to the old Hwy 1 through the canyon as well

FWIW, I drive 16/5/24 from Edmonton to just east of 100 Mile house all the time, and with the exception of long weekends generally the traffic is not too bad
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  #23  
Old Posted May 17, 2018, 8:06 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
And that's a complete and utter joke. Any other jurisdiction in the western world would be building a freeway, but not BC. Nope, they cheap out for long term pain. Look at highway 1 though Hope, Chilliwack, Abbotsford and Langley. Imagine if they had cheaped out by putting all the lanes together. Then when land is very expensive, it would cost triple to price to expand to 3 lanes each way. They have the luxury of adding lanes in the middle because of the grass median.

BTW, the Cariboo connector has more traffic than Hope to Abbotsford had when the properly twinned the highway.


The original plan was to actually build a new 4 lane highway from 70 Mile House straight down to Kamloops where it would cross the Thompson at Singh Street and up Summit Dr. to highway 1 with another good connection to the Halston Connector (over to highway 5). Local politics means the governments are unwilling to bypass Cache Creek since they still feel bad about the Coq. doing so.
I assume you wrote that article? BC's way of doing things is a little strange, but as long as you put in a concrete barrier (which BC doesn't do a lot of the time), it's fine and is what is done in most places with higher population density. Building 100m medians is incredibly wasteful of space, and despite what that article claims, also incredibly ugly.

This would be fine for 95% of the long distance roads in Canada essentially forever:



It's also completely false that very other jurisdiction in the western world would be building a freeway to a small town of 74,000 people. For example, the road to Aberdeen from Edinburgh is a fairly low standard 4 lane highway. The road from Newcastle to Edinburgh isn't even 4 lanes. There's plenty of examples of what you would perceive to be under built roads - BC isn't some anomaly.
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  #24  
Old Posted May 18, 2018, 6:58 PM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Highway 97 is a very busy highway. It's the major route to the Yukon and Alaska from the Western USA. It's the major route to the BC oil patch. It's the major route to the BC north coast. It gets a lot of truck traffic.

No, greenspace is NOT ugly! If you look at areas of cities where all the rich people live, they chose the greenspace areas with lots of trees and grass. The poor end up living in the wall to wall houses and concrete with very little vegetation.
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  #25  
Old Posted May 18, 2018, 10:06 PM
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I wonder what the traffic counts are on 97 north of Cache Creek?
I would like to see the Kootenays connected to the rest of southern BC via a 4lane highway.
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  #26  
Old Posted May 23, 2018, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
Highway 97 is a very busy highway. It's the major route to the Yukon and Alaska from the Western USA. It's the major route to the BC oil patch. It's the major route to the BC north coast. It gets a lot of truck traffic.

No, greenspace is NOT ugly! If you look at areas of cities where all the rich people live, they chose the greenspace areas with lots of trees and grass. The poor end up living in the wall to wall houses and concrete with very little vegetation.
Of course green space is great, no one would disagree with that. But median space isn't green space, it's just wasted space that didn't need to be taken from the land. The space in the middle is just muck.

This:



Is nicer than this:




So from the information I see, that highway has an AADT of ~5000 south of Prince George. Like it or not, that isn't much traffic. In an ideal world, sure it would be upgraded, but BC has the harshest terrain in Canada, they have to prioritise and this road does not appear to be top of the list.
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  #27  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 6:34 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
So from the information I see, that highway has an AADT of ~5000 south of Prince George. Like it or not, that isn't much traffic. In an ideal world, sure it would be upgraded, but BC has the harshest terrain in Canada, they have to prioritise and this road does not appear to be top of the list.
The land between Clinton and Prince George is almost prairie like. It's some of the easiest land in Canada to build highways on. It's mostly rolling hills with lots of open grassland. The last little bit to Cache Creek is a little tougher, but still nothing compared to what the Trans Canada goes though from the Alberta border to Hope.

If putting the lanes together is better, why do they separate the lanes on "interstates" and most freeways in Canada?
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  #28  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 7:09 PM
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It is better to have a median in between lanes rather than a concrete barricade, it’s a lot less dangerous to wipe out into a median than it is to pile your car into a concrete barrier. If the need to twin 97 up to PG is warranted there’s lots of room for a separated feeway
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  #29  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 7:48 PM
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Dengler Avenue Dengler Avenue is offline
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Oh yea, a slight digression (and sheer curiosity): Why is the speed limit on AB-1 through the nation park 90 kph instead of anything higher? Too many animals around the highway?
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  #30  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 8:05 PM
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^ Wildlife, and congestion.

At least on AB1 it's twinned, all 90kph and they have bypasses at the gate so you don't need to wait in line if you're driving straight through. On the Yellowhead through Jasper, you have to wait at the gate to get in, it's single lane each way and the limit drops to 70kph a bunch of times through wildlife areas. In the summer it's ridiculously slow and you have to deal with all the idiots that will literally park their cars on the highway, let their kids run around in traffic so that they can take a photo of a big horn sheep. Driving through Jasper is the single most painful stretch of highway on my regular route from Edmonton to our cabin near 100 Mile House
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  #31  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 9:14 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
The land between Clinton and Prince George is almost prairie like. It's some of the easiest land in Canada to build highways on. It's mostly rolling hills with lots of open grassland. The last little bit to Cache Creek is a little tougher, but still nothing compared to what the Trans Canada goes though from the Alberta border to Hope.

If putting the lanes together is better, why do they separate the lanes on "interstates" and most freeways in Canada?
Maybe the 97 doesn't have the worst terrain, but overall BC has an immense amount of mountainous roadway and a taxpayer base of only 4M people. The point is, that while it would be nice if every road we used was upgraded to the standard we wanted, there is only a limited amount of money and other roads may rightly have priority.

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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
It is better to have a median in between lanes rather than a concrete barricade, it’s a lot less dangerous to wipe out into a median than it is to pile your car into a concrete barrier. If the need to twin 97 up to PG is warranted there’s lots of room for a separated feeway
My comment was primarily pointed at the false notion that trash filled grass between lanes is 'green space'. It isn't, it is space taken away from actual green space and ugly. However, you are correct it is probably marginally safer (I don't have any data either way), so is a fine choice in places where land is cheap and ugly like the prairies. However in places where land is expensive, hard to build on and precious, wide medians are a waste.
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  #32  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 9:17 PM
milomilo milomilo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Oh yea, a slight digression (and sheer curiosity): Why is the speed limit on AB-1 through the nation park 90 kph instead of anything higher? Too many animals around the highway?
They will claim it is animals but that is BS. The Trans Canada is fenced and a high quality road, there are plenty of roads with higher speed limits with more risk of animal strike. The real reason is Parks Canada being Parks Canada, by being obstructionist and annoying purely for the sake of it.
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  #33  
Old Posted May 29, 2018, 9:48 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post

My comment was primarily pointed at the false notion that trash filled grass between lanes is 'green space'. It isn't, it is space taken away from actual green space and ugly. However, you are correct it is probably marginally safer (I don't have any data either way), so is a fine choice in places where land is cheap and ugly like the prairies. However in places where land is expensive, hard to build on and precious, wide medians are a waste.
I think it comes down to traffic volumes ultimately. I remember watching a study a while ago about highway safety and the safety benefits of an un-divided vs. divided vs. separated lanes and the separated highway was much safer than even a divided highway. So if the traffic volumes warrant a twinned highway then you might as well separate it where you can.
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  #34  
Old Posted May 30, 2018, 4:24 PM
Glacier Glacier is offline
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Originally Posted by 240glt View Post
I think it comes down to traffic volumes ultimately. I remember watching a study a while ago about highway safety and the safety benefits of an un-divided vs. divided vs. separated lanes and the separated highway was much safer than even a divided highway. So if the traffic volumes warrant a twinned highway then you might as well separate it where you can.
If you don't separate the highway when you go to 4-lanes, you never will because they will let private land be developed right up to the highway. Best to separate now when the land is undeveloped. That's what they did with highway 1 from Vancouver to Hope. At the hope end traffic was lower than 97 is today, and they still did it because they had the forethought.
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  #35  
Old Posted May 30, 2018, 5:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Glacier View Post
If you don't separate the highway when you go to 4-lanes, you never will because they will let private land be developed right up to the highway. Best to separate now when the land is undeveloped. That's what they did with highway 1 from Vancouver to Hope. At the hope end traffic was lower than 97 is today, and they still did it because they had the forethought.
Except right around Agassiz, it's just separated with a concrete barrier. But I think that's just because there's not enough room between the hillside and the river

But yes, if volumes warrants making it a 4 lane road it makes sense to separate it where possible.
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  #36  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2018, 9:26 PM
Mishpet1 Mishpet1 is offline
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Hi guys, just took a drive up to PG and took a few photos of the construction going on between Red Rock and Stoner. All traffic is now on the newer section of highway while they re-do the original roadway above. There is also a 6 Km section of road being widened south of Williams Lake which might be ready later this fall as well as a small section just north of the intersection of 97 / 20 (between Carson and Toop)





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  #37  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2018, 5:45 AM
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Thanks for the photos!
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