New "Downtown" Arena location?

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There has also been a bit of a buzz in the Quebec sports media recently about the Sens possibly moving To Quebec City.

That should surprise nobody.

If that were to happen, it would be a disaster for the City of Ottawa, that is 50% bigger than Quebec City.

[Marshsparrow]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Um, the junction of three transitway sections, and within 1km of Vanier Parkway interchange with the 417 (AND directly on the new Walkley-to-Nicholas parkway that NIMBY's have been fighting for years). Arguably WAY better transportation options to get to Hurdman than to Lebreton.

Hurdman has a snazzy masterplan for future development. Someone else will be quicker to post it though.

The walkley-nicholas parkway is being built? Another Ottawa brownfield that will remain wasted for 50 years

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

That should surprise nobody.

If that were to happen, it would be a disaster for the City of Ottawa, that is 50% bigger than Quebec City.

Almost twice as big at this point...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There has also been a bit of a buzz in the Quebec sports media recently about the Sens possibly moving To Quebec City.

Shocker.

The Sens won't be moving to Quebec City.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Shocker.

The Sens won't be moving to Quebec City.

I mostly agree but stranger things have happened.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mostly agree but stranger things have happened.

Such as?

The NHL gains nothing by relocating the Senators to Quebec City. It's still a Canadian market, smaller in market size, and unlike Montreal is dominated by a language that isn't spoken by 95% of the rest of the league. If you thought Winnipeg was poorly received by players Quebec would be a whole different stratosphere altogether.

QC will continue to be used as bait to raise expansion and relocation fees further. That's about it.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Such as?

The NHL gains nothing by relocating the Senators to Quebec City. It's still a Canadian market, smaller in market size, and unlike Montreal is dominated by a language that isn't spoken by 95% of the rest of the league. If you thought Winnipeg was poorly received by players Quebec would be a whole different stratosphere altogether.

QC will continue to be used as bait to raise expansion and relocation fees further. That's about it.

Erik Lindros notwithstanding the Nordiques didn’t have any particular problem with players refusing to play there..

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There has also been a bit of a buzz in the Quebec sports media recently about the Sens possibly moving To Quebec City.

The NHL has at least three teams that have consistently struggled for the past 10-20 years that would be better candidates for re-location. Ottawa has only been a problem for the past three years and those issues can be pin-pointed to the Phoenix Pay System initially, increased emphasis on the terrible location with the dream of a new LeBreton arena (fueled by the owner's comments, selling LeBreton as a solution to the current distant location instead of just a natural step forward for the franchise), followed by the owner's vague threats, insulting fans, destroying the team's core and finally killing the LeBreton deal and killing it again last week.

The NHL knows Ottawa can be a great market, possibly a top 10 market. They've seen it before when the arena was sold out nearly every night for 10 years. They just need to find a new owner and push for a new arena downtown.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The NHL knows Ottawa can be a great market, possibly a top 10 market. They've seen it before when the arena was sold out nearly every night for 10 years. They just need to find a new owner and push for a new arena downtown.

I am not sure that is a widely held view around the league. Ottawa has consistently struggled with a myriad of sports franchises and Sens had problems long before Melnyk showed up.

[YOWflier]

It doesn't need to be a widely held view anywhere but inside the commissioner's office, which it is, and around the BOG table.

The Quebec threat continues to be cute.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Such as?

.

In my book, Atlanta to Winnipeg for starters. To the smallest, coldest market in the league with the smallest arena, and where the previous incarnation of the Jets didn't exactly have stellar attendance all the time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Erik Lindros notwithstanding the Nordiques didn’t have any particular problem with players refusing to play there..

I don't think it's likely the Sens would move to Quebec City, but I agree with this and the idea that Winnipeg is significantly above Quebec City as a place to play is ridiculous. Not to knock on the Manitoba capital but Quebec City is a much nicer, livelier and fun city than Winnipeg. Better restaurants, shopping and (arguably) culture. Also not as brutally cold though yes a lot snowier. It's also in a better location which is not just fun for weekend getaways but of specific importance for players as it means less time spent travelling on road trips. Many of the flights to other NHL cities are just short hops in the part of the continent.

A significant and growing chunk of NHLers are also not North Americans so while European players do all learn English for their on-ice and dressing room hockey activities, they're a lot more likely to not give a shit whether the cashier at IGA says "bonjour" as opposed to "hi". Anyway, do they even do their own groceries? I betcha for most of them their wives don't even do the groceries and errands themselves. I'd also even give the benefit of the doubt to our North American boys and say that today's generation of NHLers might be a bit more worldly and isn't going to break out into hives at the freakish notion of a city where McDonald's and Walmart operate in French. I hope I am right.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Anyway, do they even do their own groceries?

I've seen Alfredsson do groceries.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Acajack

In my book, Atlanta to Winnipeg for starters. To the smallest, coldest market in the league with the smallest arena, and where the previous incarnation of the Jets didn't exactly have stellar attendance all the time.

The previous incarnation of the Jets had an outdated arena and no ownership group with enough money to keep them in town. That's why they moved. Similarly, the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg because the ownership group had no interest in continuing operations and had kicked them out of their own arena in Atlanta. It was either fold the franchise last minute or move to the quickest suitable location. Winnipeg fit that bill.

Originally Posted by acottawa

Erik Lindros notwithstanding the Nordiques didn’t have any particular problem with players refusing to play there..

Yes and no.

Originally Posted by Washington Post, 1982

Although all announcements are made in French and all signs and all program stories are in French, the fans root by their heart, not by nationality. Weir, Dale Hunter and Peter Stastny invariably draw more applause than Real Cloutier, Michel Goulet and Marc Tardif.

Although they are treated well by the fans and the club arranges for French lessons, the language problem can make life difficult for English players here.

John Wensink, since dealt to Colorado, found that his family felt isolated and uncomfortable.

"My son was watching Sesame Street and he told me, 'The bird talks funny,' " Wensink said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...=.474a966d077b

Originally Posted by Sports Illustrated, 1981

The influx of Europeans has only exacerbated what was already a bit of a language problem for the Nordiques, whose dressing-room door has a sign that reads DRESSING ROOM, VESTIAIRE (French) and SATNA (Slovak). Two Nordiques, Rochefort and Dave Pichette, speak French but precious little English and maybe two words of Slovak. Hunter and Dale Hoganson speak English but no French, as does Robbie Ftorek, the team captain, who is Czechoslovakian by descent but grew up in Massachusetts. Frycer is lost in both English and French. All three Stastnys get by in English, but only Anton knows enough French to wander into downtown Quebec City. "Sometimes I walk into the locker room and it sounds like the League of Nations," says Bergeron, throwing up his hands. In a serious moment he says, "I can't imagine this team without the Stastnys."
...
To that end, Aubut leaves no stone unturned. Quebec City is overwhelmingly French-speaking. It has only one English-speaking movie theater and no daily paper printed in English. As a result, a lot of English-speaking NHL players want no part of being a Nordique

https://www.si.com/vault/1981/12/14/...ow-big-winners

Not only would Quebec be on its own regarding its first-language policies amongst other NHL teams but it has not-so-great winters and one of the highest tax regimes for income tax for athletes (only behind Ontario). Places like Winnipeg and Edmonton are two of the least-favoured cities to travel to on the calendar and Winnipeg is frequently the most mentioned team that players don't want to be traded to.

Quebec would be a poor destination for free agents, its players would be heavily taxed, and their families would have a difficult time living there. Imagine combining Winnipeg's hopeless free agency efforts with Montreal's language police problems and you end up with Quebec City. Sounds like an ideal "No" candidate for the NHLPA and its members.

[khabibulin]

Originally Posted by JHikka

The previous incarnation of the Jets had an outdated arena and no ownership group with enough money to keep them in town. That's why they moved. Similarly, the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg because the ownership group had no interest in continuing operations and had kicked them out of their own arena in Atlanta. It was either fold the franchise last minute or move to the quickest suitable location. Winnipeg fit that bill.

The Winnipeg ownership group also paved the way to take advantage of this opportunity. The professionalism of this group impressed the NHL BOG's as well as the Commissioner, and allowed the decision makers to approve the move without having to worry about the future of the team. Also having the richest Canadian as part of the ownership group didn't hurt.

[Acajack]

I pity the poor son of John Wensick, whose parents didn't even know they just had to change the channel to the local CBC station so he could watch Sesame Street in English in Quebec City in the 1970s...

Hopefully he got over that childhood trauma.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No way Gatineau, Québec or Loto-Quebec would offer anything close to a free arena.

They would get a lot of money back in income and sales taxes given the inter-provincial move. The Quebec taxes on payroll alone would be 10s of millions of dollars a year which could pay a hefty mortgage. Add the sales tax on tickets, parking and merchandise and you are talking real money. I guess politically they wouldn't want to spend much to get a team that would play in a city other than Quebec City. Also I guess a name change might be required a la Anaheim Angels.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

They would get a lot of money back in income and sales taxes given the inter-provincial move. The Quebec taxes on payroll alone would be 10s of millions of dollars a year which could pay a hefty mortgage. Add the sales tax on tickets, parking and merchandise and you are talking real money. I guess politically they wouldn't want to spend much to get a team that would play in a city other than Quebec City. Also I guess a name change might be required a la Anaheim Angels.

If it were such a slam dunk then cities across Canada would be building free arenas for NHL teams without much hesitation. But most of them don't.

Also, if by payroll taxes you mean player salaries I doubt Quebec would get much of that as you pay taxes in the province you live in, not the one you work in. I suspect most Senators players even if they played in Gatineau, would still live in Ottawa.

Finally, I don't see the name change as a certainty.

[J.OT13]

The team name wouldn't change. It didn't change when they moved to Kanata. People know Ottawa. Ottawa is part of NHL history. Ottawa is the region's metropolis. If they changed the name to the Gatineau Senators, everyone outside Canada would ask "what the hell is Gatineau and why did they get a team?"

Also, if they changed it to the Gatineau Senators, the team would lose a large chunk of its Ottawa fan-base.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The team name wouldn't change. It didn't change when they moved to Kanata. People know Ottawa. Ottawa is part of NHL history. Ottawa is the region's metropolis. If they changed the name to the Gatineau Senators, everyone outside Canada would ask "what the hell is Gatineau and why did they get a team?"

Also, if they changed it to the Gatineau Senators, the team would lose a large chunk of its Ottawa fan-base.

And Ottawa-Gatineau Senators sounds very awkward.

Capital Senators? There is already a team called the Washington Capitals based in another capital city.

I guess there might be an opportunity to be very "21st Century" and rebrand them with an indigenous name that works for both sides of the river, like Kitchissippi Senators or Atawe Senators, but my money would still be on them still being called the Ottawa Senators.