Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Waverley and McGillivray also have what are essentially service roads (Buffalo Pl, Gamble Pl, etc.)... Not sure why city planners always get the bad rap for these types of issues though.

Because people think planners work in a vacuum.

The misconception is that planners simply say "we'll put a road here" and that's the end of the story. Unfortunately , what tends to happen more often than not is that some stuffed shirt somewhere decides that the land that was reserved for one thing or another could be put to much better use as a field to showcase a for-sale sign.

An example would be Bishop Grandin at Dakota. For years the city hung on to the land around the intersection because the plan was to put a grade separation in place. Then some putz decided that since the overpass was at least twenty years away , it made more sense to sell the land to a developer whose development would then lock up the land for the next fifty years or whatever. While we could argue that the planning department gave the green light to the sale , we also have to remember that they don't necessarily get that option.

I don't really know exactly what transpired in the example cited. No clue obviously. I do know that if the idea was to save room for an interchange then any cheaper versions of it sailed with the rest of the ship.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Because people think planners work in a vacuum.

The misconception is that planners simply say "we'll put a road here" and that's the end of the story. Unfortunately , what tends to happen more often than not is that some stuffed shirt somewhere decides that the land that was reserved for one thing or another could be put to much better use as a field to showcase a for-sale sign.

An example would be Bishop Grandin at Dakota. For years the city hung on to the land around the intersection because the plan was to put a grade separation in place. Then some putz decided that since the overpass was at least twenty years away , it made more sense to sell the land to a developer whose development would then lock up the land for the next fifty years or whatever. While we could argue that the planning department gave the green light to the sale , we also have to remember that they don't necessarily get that option.

I don't really know exactly what transpired in the example cited. No clue obviously. I do know that if the idea was to save room for an interchange then any cheaper versions of it sailed with the rest of the ship.

Exactly - it's as though some think the planning department is a group of people playing real life Sim City. Road goes here, mixed use towers go here, land over there is preserved as ROW or even expropriated...It's like we expect planners to overrule council, overrule budgets, override land economics, override Public works/other city departments, override existing policies, and ignore public input as well...

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Exactly - it's as though some think the planning department is a group of people playing real life Sim City. Road goes here, mixed use towers go here, land over there is preserved as ROW or even expropriated...It's like we expect planners to overrule council, overrule budgets, override land economics, override Public works/other city departments, override existing policies, and ignore public input as well...

That is the thing though. Having spoken with a lot of city planners, they are not stupid. They know how things should be designed and planned out. In effect they do plan like being in a real life Sim City only reality sets in when they plan things properly.

After this, some politician steps in with the realities that there is no money or his/her constituents wont stand for not being able to have their own private access to a new freeway. Then the plan gets engineered down to - just put in a 4 way stop sign or if we can find it in the budget, maybe a set of lights.

..........here in Winnipeg anyways.

[bomberjet]

Dang these conversations can get depressing fast!

Biff, completely agree with your concepts there. As I mentioned previously, also add a road under the existing rail overpass, south of the tracks would be amazing! That would eliminate the funny Ravelston/Reenders connection, allowing access from the north side. That's the transportation engineer in me talking. Pie in the sky right?!

Big bucks for that whole stretch of Lag though. The interchange at Regent would be huge for all the Saturday shoppers that tie up that intersection.

[cllew]

Looks like so far Chief Peguis is holding up fairly well with the spring thaw coming. I have not see any big chunks of pavement coming out of it yet.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Waverley and McGillivray also have what are essentially service roads (Buffalo Pl, Gamble Pl, etc.)... Not sure why city planners always get the bad rap for these types of issues though.

Your right, it's the politicians and local groups that tend to decide, trouble with that is that there is never a comprehensive plan for the whole city. I personally know retired engineer that still shakes his head at some of the decisions made.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by cllew

Looks like so far Chief Peguis is holding up fairly well with the spring thaw coming. I have not see any big chunks of pavement coming out of it yet.

Take a look at the far right lane coming off the Disraeli going towards Main.

[bomberjet]

I know someone's going to freak about being off topic.

But I totally agree the Disraeli roadworks are not very good. Bridges are okay, expansion joints are a little rough. But all the roads are bumpy up and down. Patched 3 or 4 times before it even opened. The northbound median lane approaching the first bridge from Main st is the worst.The lane is a couple inches higher than the rest. On the inside of the curve is where it's been patched multiple times. And you can clearly tell the median barriers off the bridges were finished by hand.

I don't like to be a complainer though. It's a new bridge everyone will have to live with for a long time. Serves it's purpose for now.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Take a look at the far right lane coming off the Disraeli going towards Main.

Where about, I'll try and see if I can spot it on my way to work tonight. I know the transition back to 3 lanes right at the south end of the bridge feels a little rough going downtown but that was like that from when they opened the bridge.

The north bound side (and yields @ Heslper) is still under construction as it was not completed before the paving plants shut for the season, and will be bad until they can apply the final coat later this spring.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The northbound median lane approaching the first bridge from Main st is the worst.The lane is a couple inches higher than the rest.

I drive in this lane 3-4 times per day. I can't see this, at all.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by Spocket

Because people think planners work in a vacuum.

The misconception is that planners simply say "we'll put a road here" and that's the end of the story. Unfortunately , what tends to happen more often than not is that some stuffed shirt somewhere decides that the land that was reserved for one thing or another could be put to much better use as a field to showcase a for-sale sign.
.

This is one reason, among many, that I decided to switch degree programs and give up being an urban planner. Yes, we can study and design an urban utopia to our hearts' desire, but there are so many factors that decide whether the vision you create actually comes to fruition. And even then, the amount of politics and paperwork that goes into one project is just ridiculous. I suppose that's normal of anything, but I played too much simcity as a kid, and that is definitely what being an urban planner is NOT.

[original]

So if Ed Schreyer Parkway is going to be built along with with Genstar's new housing development, CP Trail has to also be extended East so that Ed Schreyer Parkway has something to connect to... Prhaps we'll see the East CP Trail built before the West extension?

And I'm guessing no interchange at CP Trail and Ed Schreyer Parkway? Another huge multi-lane at grade intersection?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by original

So if Ed Schreyer Parkway is going to be built along with with Genstar's new housing development, CP Trail has to also be extended East so that Ed Schreyer Parkway has something to connect to... Prhaps we'll see the East CP Trail built before the West extension?

And I'm guessing no interchange at CP Trail and Ed Schreyer Parkway? Another huge multi-lane at grade intersection?

Really don't why the CP Trail isn't just extended east to Plessis, most of Plessis is now 4 lanes, seems to me building another artery like Ed S Parkway is redundant.

[alittle1]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Really don't why the CP Trail isn't just extended east to Plessis, most of Plessis is now 4 lanes, seems to me building another artery like Ed S Parkway is redundant.

Firstly, the east side of Plessis and north of the CP tracks is Mun. Of Springfield, not COW property.

Secondly, the right-a-way is ONLY 99 feet wide, therefore lane width would not be much more than a ox cart.

Thirdly, I'm sure the residents on the Eastside of Plessis don't want the truck traffic that will be using it 24 hours per day. Ask the people on Grassie Blvd. how they liked the tow trucks and trailer dropping junk and garbage as they went by their property.

Fourth, That would cause traffic to flow somewhat, Winnipeg drivers are used to abrupt stops and direction changes in their freeways. My understanding is that the City engineers played with that thought while re-designing the new Disraeli Bridge; they did give Disraeli drivers a year to test that concept during re-construction. How did you like it boys and girls?

My favorite question about Winnipeg has been: Name me, one street that runs right through Winnipeg, East to West, or North to South?

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Firstly, the east side of Plessis and north of the CP tracks is Mun. Of Springfield, not COW property.

Secondly, the right-a-way is ONLY 99 feet wide, therefore lane width would not be much more than a ox cart.

Thirdly, I'm sure the residents on the Eastside of Plessis don't want the truck traffic that will be using it 24 hours per day. Ask the people on Grassie Blvd. how they liked the tow trucks and trailer dropping junk and garbage as they went by their property.

Fourth, That would cause traffic to flow somewhat, Winnipeg drivers are used to abrupt stops and direction changes in their freeways. My understanding is that the City engineers played with that thought while re-designing the new Disraeli Bridge; they did give Disraeli drivers a year to test that concept during re-construction. How did you like it boys and girls?

My favorite question about Winnipeg has been: Name me, one street that runs right through Winnipeg, East to West, or North to South?

Main Street/St Mary's in Winnipeg runs continuous from Netley Creek Provincial Park (Lake Manitoba) almost to Letellier, Manitoba. Approximately 150 km.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by alittle1

My favorite question about Winnipeg has been: Name me, one street that runs right through Winnipeg, East to West, or North to South?

North/South would be PembinaOsborneMemorialColonyBalmoralIsabelSalter St. No actual turns (right or left) just gentle curves.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Firstly, the east side of Plessis and north of the CP tracks is Mun. Of Springfield, not COW property.

Secondly, the right-a-way is ONLY 99 feet wide, therefore lane width would not be much more than a ox cart.

Thirdly, I'm sure the residents on the Eastside of Plessis don't want the truck traffic that will be using it 24 hours per day. Ask the people on Grassie Blvd. how they liked the tow trucks and trailer dropping junk and garbage as they went by their property.

Fourth, That would cause traffic to flow somewhat, Winnipeg drivers are used to abrupt stops and direction changes in their freeways. My understanding is that the City engineers played with that thought while re-designing the new Disraeli Bridge; they did give Disraeli drivers a year to test that concept during re-construction. How did you like it boys and girls?

My favorite question about Winnipeg has been: Name me, one street that runs right through Winnipeg, East to West, or North to South?

Aside from the Main St./St. Mary's that was already mentioned, Lag is the obvious one that comes to mind. In 2 years, you can add Route 90 to that list.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Bdog

Aside from the Main St./St. Mary's that was already mentioned, Lag is the obvious one that comes to mind. In 2 years, you can add Route 90 to that list.

How could I miss Lag!! Lol Only drive it everyday. But yeah, those are good ones. Route 90 will be, like you said, next fall.

And then Chief will be east to west in 20 millennia when it is completed. From the east perimeter all the way through CCW to #1 via the Headingley bypass.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by Biff

North/South would be PembinaOsborneMemorialColonyBalmoralIsabelSalter St. No actual turns (right or left) just gentle curves.

Except that Salter ends just north of Lelia so it fails to cross the Perimeter twice.

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by alittle1

Firstly, the east side of Plessis and north of the CP tracks is Mun. Of Springfield, not COW property.

Secondly, the right-a-way is ONLY 99 feet wide, therefore lane width would not be much more than a ox cart.

Thirdly, I'm sure the residents on the Eastside of Plessis don't want the truck traffic that will be using it 24 hours per day. Ask the people on Grassie Blvd. how they liked the tow trucks and trailer dropping junk and garbage as they went by their property.

Fourth, That would cause traffic to flow somewhat, Winnipeg drivers are used to abrupt stops and direction changes in their freeways. My understanding is that the City engineers played with that thought while re-designing the new Disraeli Bridge; they did give Disraeli drivers a year to test that concept during re-construction. How did you like it boys and girls?

My favorite question about Winnipeg has been: Name me, one street that runs right through Winnipeg, East to West, or North to South?

Plessis is the dividing line between Winnipeg and the RM of Springfield, so yes the CP Trail could have been extended to Plessis within city limits. Anything west of Plessis is the COW.