CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[Buckman821]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The no-build option.

Simply decline to approve more than 2000 dwelling units, or more than 100,000 sf of office, and certainly decline to approve any sports venue. If Sterling Bay complains, remind them that they purchased land in a PMD, with no transit access. Therefore, they should be grateful that townhouses and midrises are permitted.

You want to build a new downtown? Choose a site that's served by transit.

I hate to say it - but I think Mr. D is right.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

^ Heck, there are more wealthy and powerful people living in the Chicago area than DC these days. Same with LA

Point being, locating an entire company's HQ near DC to be near "powerful lawmakers" is a dumb idea. All you need is a good lobbying office. Lets not forget that congressmen are still strongly held to their obligations to their home states, not some company based in Virginia or Maryland.

Yep. I think the notion of having to be right in or near DC to influence government is extremely outdated. Politicians are traveling all the time whether it's for home district obligations, speaking engagements, conferences, etc. Same with powerful executives of major companies. The home base for the CEO of a bank may be NYC, but they are probably actually at home less than half the year. Business is done more without "borders" or bases these days and people who are worth this much play but much different rules then me or you. Traveling is a norm, and where they say their home is, is a mere suggestion to where they actually can conduct business. Also, where the hq office is..is the same story. With hq2, it would be dumb to actually assume this is where Bezos is going to spend most of his time. The guy is probably traveling all over the place. He really has no problem being influential to government from Seattle. Same for Bill Gates. Look at deliveries. He was able to get packages delivered on Sundays....just saying

[Khantilever]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The no-build option.

Simply decline to approve more than 2000 dwelling units, or more than 100,000 sf of office, and certainly decline to approve any sports venue. If Sterling Bay complains, remind them that they purchased land in a PMD, with no transit access. Therefore, they should be grateful that townhouses and midrises are permitted.

You want to build a new downtown? Choose a site that's served by transit.

Is the Armitage CTA Station at capacity? If so, do you know if improvements/enlargements to the station are possible, or are things limited by the its historic nature and the landmarked area around it? On a more exploratory note, is adding a Red Line stop there anywhere near the realm of possibility? I realize red line trains run on the center tracks, and the beautiful homes next to the station may limit the addition of central platforms. But just wondering.

We see two recent proposals down in the Clybourn Corridor for ~700 units, in total. They are alone adding 35% of what you think Sterling Bay's should be allowed on the residential side to an area that already has a fair amount of density, while contributing essentially nothing to local infrastructure the way SB is.

These Clybourn Corridor developments are about 8-10 minutes walking from the North and Clybourn station. Meanwhile, the heart of SB's residential area is 10-12 minutes from Armitage, and perhaps less depending on the paths they create. So I'm not sure I see the disconnect.

[west-town-brad]

Originally Posted by marothisu

Lol...yeah the same people who claim Bezos is going to be there because he has a mansion there. Life is a lot different when you are a multi billionaire. To be powerful in government, you don't need to live in DC if you have billions. There are arguably more powerful people living in NYC than DC in some ways. If this was really a big deal, you would have seen a bunch move to DC. It hasn't happened. I think the people who think these things don't truly understand that the world is different with those amounts of money and they think in terms of how they would do it if it was them on their money, not billions.

Bezos is going to put hq2 in an area that's best for the business. To influence DC, you don't have to live there. With his money, it really doesn't matter as much. He could snap his fingers and get a private jet right now. This isn't the common person needing to plan a trip to a city a month in advance. Life is much different down to travel from one place to another.

Also, getting a level of influence in the federal government based on geographic location would at least likely require having voting representation in the Senate and House. Of which DC does not have because it's not a state.

[IrishIllini]

I cannot imagine a world where the CTA is interested or has the support for a new elevated rail line. Especially along Armitage. Any new lines will get buried unless they're running on tracks that are already existing.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

I cannot imagine a world where the CTA is interested or has the support for a new elevated rail line. Especially along Armitage. Any new lines will get buried unless they're running on tracks that are already existing.

The Belmont Flyover is getting built despite the objections of neighbors, and requiring significant demolitions in one of Chicago's wealthier neighborhoods. I don't think NIMBYism would necessarily sink other proposals for elevated rail.

From an engineering standpoint, many of the issues have been solved. Elevated isn't the clattering rumbling beast it used to be. Orange Line included pretty big chunks of new elevated viaduct. Stand under the tracks at 18th/Wentworth, the train pretty much glides by with a whoosh. The tracks are laid on top of gravel ballast over a concrete deck, which addresses the rumbling, and the viaduct has concrete parapet walls to block any screeching sound coming off the wheels.

The new structure on the Pink Line is admittedly loud, but only because CTA was replacing an existing century-old structure and they didn't have to make it any quieter than it was before, so they took the cheap route and just built an open steel structure without a ballasted concrete deck or parapets.

From an urban planning standpoint, I think CTA would need to be careful with new elevated structures to make sure they don't create a blight. They should only be used on very wide streets, existing rail corridors, or (in some cases) through greenfield areas like Lincoln Yards where the entire neighborhood can be designed to provide light, air, and separation around the tracks.

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by Khantilever

Is the Armitage CTA Station at capacity

Even if the trains stopping there had additional capacity, Armitage is three-quarters of a mile away (measuring from the center of the Cortland bridge.) That's simply unrealistic without a high frequency shuttle.

[marothisu]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Even if the trains stopping there had additional capacity, Armitage is three-quarters of a mile away (measuring from the center of the Cortland bridge.) That's simply unrealistic without a high frequency shuttle.

My office entrance is 1/3 mile away from the nearest Penn Station entry point and still take 7+ minutes as a walk. I'm used to it, but 5 minutes more would be annoying. I have some coworkers who walk closer to 3/4 of a mile after getting off the train but they complain a bit when it's winter out. I think at that distance it's kind of pushing it.

[JK47]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The Belmont Flyover is getting built despite the objections of neighbors, and requiring significant demolitions in one of Chicago's wealthier neighborhoods. I don't think NIMBYism would necessarily sink other proposals for elevated rail.

Lack of funding sources is a bigger issue in my opinion. The RPM project managed to secure Federal funds in the nick of time but going forward those kind of capital grants are going to be hard to acquire. The state's fiscal position is precarious and the ill-conceived tax cuts at the Federal level have blown an absolute hole in Federal finances and we're bleeding red ink at this point (even the OMB had to acknowledge that CBO projections were accurate with regard to widening deficits which will reach a Trillion dollars annually in a few years).

[SIGSEGV]

Add a few artics to the 132 and extra runs on the Armitage bus and that should be enough for a moderate size development. Maybe some midday/evening Metra runs to Clybourn might be justified as well.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by marothisu

My office entrance is 1/3 mile away from the nearest Penn Station entry point and still take 7+ minutes as a walk. I'm used to it, but 5 minutes more would be annoying. I have some coworkers who walk closer to 3/4 of a mile after getting off the train but they complain a bit when it's winter out. I think at that distance it's kind of pushing it.

When I lived in Lakeview my walk to Belmont was 3/4ths of a mile and I did it twice a day. Many people in my office also walk that distance from CUS. Armitage would be at least somewhat useful to a decent number of people at this site.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Originally Posted by ardecila

What subway route in Chicago would run through contaminated soil along most or all of its length? In any case, the pollution wouldn't change the engineering qualities of the soil. You'd just pay more to dispose of it, and depending on what kind of contamination, might need certain precautions for the workers.

That's absurd, the soil here is not that contaminated. Also, even if there was contamination, there's no way it would be "everywhere" because our dense clay actually does a great job of containing most contaminents near the source. I was just reading a NFR letter about the removal of a oil railcar that had been pushed into a hole and buried to be used as an underground storage tank for about 70 years. The contamination barely got 20' from the car because of the thick clay. In Sandy soils that type of situation would be FUBAR.

Also if there really were that much contamination it would inevitably become a Superfund site and the cleanup would be covered by them and the responsible party.

Originally Posted by Buckman821

I hate to say it - but I think Mr. D is right.

Guys he absolutely is right. As I said earlier, the only way this should be approved as is is if SB is going to pay for all transit connections deemed necessary out of their own pocket. They are coming asking for a handout that will make them billions overnight just by drastically increasing the highest and best use of this land. They don't get to have a handout like that and trash all the surrounding areas with gridlock. Buck up or propose something more in line with the existing conditions.

[the urban politician]

Probably the only scenario where I would agree to go along with SB’s proposal for Lincoln Yards is if Amazon decided to locate HQ2 there.

Otherwise, I think it’s bad for the city, and terrible planning, to approve this.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Probably the only scenario where I would agree to go along with SB’s proposal for Lincoln Yards is if Amazon decided to locate HQ2 there.

Otherwise, I think it’s bad for the city, and terrible planning, to approve this.

Literally the only reason their proposal looks the way it does currently.

[AlpacaObsessor]

In Q&A, Alderman Brian Hopkins makes it clear Sterling Bay’s $5B project won’t start without his blessing.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by JK47

Lack of funding sources is a bigger issue in my opinion. The RPM project managed to secure Federal funds in the nick of time but going forward those kind of capital grants are going to be hard to acquire. The state's fiscal position is precarious and the ill-conceived tax cuts at the Federal level have blown an absolute hole in Federal finances and we're bleeding red ink at this point (even the OMB had to acknowledge that CBO projections were accurate with regard to widening deficits which will reach a Trillion dollars annually in a few years).

I think that goes without saying. But if we want to build more rail lines in the future (regardless of where the money comes from) we should have some idea of what those lines look like. The Red Line South extension, for example, is proposed as an elevated structure - not directly over streets, but in or next to a railroad right-of-way. We know what this looks like, the Orange Line is like this from Kedzie to Cicero and it doesn't seem to act as a blight on neighborhoods. So maybe that's an acceptable place for a new elevated structure.

However, I do think extending the E. 63rd branch of the Green Line back to Stony Island would in fact produce a blight and continue to stymie the development of that street even if Woodlawn as a whole is on the upswing. A modern structure with ballasted deck and parapets would throw the whole street into shadow. An open structure like CTA's historic steel structures would allow a little more light down to the sidewalk but would bring noise issues and probably would violate environmental regs. If CTA wants to extend the Green Line again, they should really build a subway or, more realistically, create an off-street ROW 150' north or south of 63rd. Then it would run over or adjacent to alleys.

[Randomguy34]

Ald. Hopkins released result of Lincoln Yards feedback from neighbors: http://www.aldermanhopkins.com/lincolnyards

Public support was much higher than I expected: 40% positive, 22% neutral, 38% negative. Those aren't great results, but news articles made it sound like it was majority negative opinions on the proposal.

[Kumdogmillionaire]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Ald. Hopkins released result of Lincoln Yards feedback from neighbors: http://www.aldermanhopkins.com/lincolnyards

Public support was much higher than I expected: 40% positive, 22% neutral, 38% negative. Those aren't great results, but news articles made it sound like it was majority negative opinions on the proposal.

Also, people are complaining about the right things. Transportation and open space issues.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

Ald. Hopkins released result of Lincoln Yards feedback from neighbors: http://www.aldermanhopkins.com/lincolnyards

Public support was much higher than I expected: 40% positive, 22% neutral, 38% negative. Those aren't great results, but news articles made it sound like it was majority negative opinions on the proposal.

Now this is how community feedback should be solicited. No cranks monopolizing a Q&A at meeting much of the actual community might not be able to attend.

If SB is going to get the density and program they're looking (seems not to be a major issue from the results) for I'm sure they'll be more amenable to working on the open space and transportation issues in coordination with the city.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by k1052

Now this is how community feedback should be solicited. No cranks monopolizing a Q&A at meeting much of the actual community might not be able to attend.

If SB is going to get the density and program they're looking (seems not to be a major issue from the results) for I'm sure they'll be more amenable to working on the open space and transportation issues in coordination with the city.

SB is almost certainly in a holding pattern right now waiting for Amazon's announcement. If Amazon decides to go elsewhere, then SB will probably be open to creating more open space on site and lean more residential with the development instead of high-rise office. Right now they will not commit to anything that might make Lincoln Yards less well-suited to Amazon's needs.

On the other hand, if Amazon does choose Lincoln Yards, then SB doesn't have to worry about the community's concerns or about Hopkins; Emanuel will just steamroll all of them to make the project happen and reel in that monster fish.