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  #561  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 2:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Honest question: in the 50s, 60s and 70s, the old "anglo" Toronto ceded its place to a mix of anglo plus Italian, Greek, Portuguese, etc. Plus West Indians too.

That's the *old* Toronto (of 30 or so years ago) that some people say had a more non-descript persona, and that T-dot these days is allegedly leaving behind.

But the Toronto of the 70s and 80s wasn't the old Scots-Presbyterian Toronto either. It had already undergone a significant transformation by then.

So why do people think today's Toronto is so different and will produce a significantly different result?
I'd say that up until the 'new' Toronto started to emerge over the past two decades, the city did very much have a persona that could be described as uptight and button-down WASP businessman (see John Tory). It wasn't an exciting or alluring persona but it certainly was a persona. "Toronto the Good". "The City That Works". After the war, even as immigrants came into the city from Mediterranean countries, the power, money and influence flowed out of Forest Hill and Rosedale, not College Street or the Danforth (and it still does to a great extent).

These days that persona is still present but getting ever smaller, and the 'new' Toronto is coming to be defined by the yuppie children of Chinese, Filipino, south Asian, Middle Eastern and Caribbean immigrants who have moved into the city from the 905, and who have widely adopted the (obviously less embellished) mannerisms and accent identified in the video that isaidso posted and which is very well portrayed by Drake below:

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  #562  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 3:32 PM
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^ Toronto, like most Canadian cities, has done integration of culture very well. With only a few limited exceptions, this is a notable Canadian trait we should be proud of.
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  #563  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 4:08 PM
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Holy shit I know it's an exaggeration but Drake nailed it with that accent. An acquaintance of mine who's a hip hop producer in Toronto sounds almost exactly like that, with the same mannerisms and all. And all of his friends I met at a party - it was an interesting experience compared to the hipster Toronto I usually hang out in haha.
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  #564  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by niwell View Post
Holy shit I know it's an exaggeration but Drake nailed it with that accent. An acquaintance of mine who's a hip hop producer in Toronto sounds almost exactly like that, with the same mannerisms and all. And all of his friends I met at a party - it was an interesting experience compared to the hipster Toronto I usually hang out in haha.
That's just it. We all live in our perspective bubbles!

That Drake accent thing is completely foreign to me...
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  #565  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 4:19 PM
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That's just it. We all live in our perspective bubbles!

That Drake accent thing is completely foreign to me...
Yeah when we are talking about vibes of cities it's very hard to actually nail down something precise when it comes to larger places. You get bubbles where you can comfortably live your life without experiencing or seeing other stuff. Aside from work I don't really ever go to Bay street or interact with the stereotypical business types.

Take NYC, which most would say undeniably has a distinct identity can vary hugely. Of my last two trips to NYC one we stayed in a sort of dodgy loft in Bushwick, the other we stayed in a fancy ass apartment in SoHo and generally stayed in those respective areas. I can't stress how different the experience was - it's basically two different worlds. The overlap in experiences was actually pretty minimal.
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  #566  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The numbers will likely be higher today because the population has increased, but I think in much of the country we're simply going back to where things were in the late 80s. In those days (when I worked in tourism) there were TONS of American visitors in Toronto. In the Niagara-Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City corridor, it may just be an impression but it arguably felt like there were even more then than there are these days. Though I agree there are probably more in sheer numbers now as our cities have grown and their tourism infrastructure has grown considerably.

For some reason in the 1990s things started to drop off. Probably initially due to American cities upping their game and shaking off years of blight. Then Sept. 11 happened and our tourism industry took a big hit, which was further compounded by many years of a high C-dollar.

I think many of our cities were also resting on their laurels a bit and it's been good in recent years to see cities like Toronto and most of the others stepping up their tourist and urban offerings significantly.

All in all, things are looking up.
You're spot on to point that out. Believe it or not Canada was once the 2nd most visited nation on earth. We owed that lofty position to post war Americans being monied and geography. Canada slowly fell down the rankings but the numbers remained strong.

Americans continued visiting Canada but began to look further afield too. It bears mentioning that in the 80s, twice as many Americans came here as today. So we're building but really just trying to climb back to where we used to be.
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  #567  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 9:43 PM
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Perhaps superficially, but not really in terms of who set the standards and controlled anything of consequence. Today you have huge numbers of post-war immigrants, their descendants, and at least some more recent arrivals, all on a more-or-less level playing field. It seems to me to be a very different dynamic from the Toronto I remember as a young man.
In addition to this, Toronto's demographic make up is far broader than it's ever been. We still have Scots, Italians, and Chinese, but now we have lots of Carribeans, Africans, and latin Americans. They're adding another layer to the dominant culture but are also changing the culture at the same time.

Cities like Toronto are always in a state of change and that will continue. Toronto's going through a bit of an identity crisis because the pace of change has been so rapid. Eventually things will settle down a bit and a new culture will appear.

As Toronto matures as a city and the rate of growth slows like it did in Chicago and New York, the culture will cement itself and grow stronger roots. If Toronto continues to change demographically at a quick rate, that can't happen I suppose.
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  #568  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Is it my imagination or is US media covering Canada more than it used to? It's still next to never but before it was literally never. And it's publications like the New York Times doing news stories rather than Fox, which is heartening.

Our recent sporting successes in tennis (Raonic, Bouchard) and golf (Henderson), the Raptors, last year's Blue Jays post season play, the NBA All Star game, the election of Trudeau, the rise of Toronto, Keystone XL, the Vancouver Olympics, the Ottawa terror attacks, TIFF, Canadian musical exports (Drake, The Weeknd, Justin Bieber, etc.), the spread of our brands (Tim Hortons, Joe Fresh, Aldo, TD Bank, etc.) and even our reality tv industry (Love It Or List It, Holmes on Homes, etc) would never register by themselves. Collectively, they might just have piqued interest in Canada.

It's culture, more than anything else, that brands a city/country. We've always been culturally rich (and a big contributor to the shared Canada/US culture) but seem to have reached a tipping point where Canada is having an impact beyond our borders. How will that raise the profile of cities like Toronto?

The number of Americans visiting Toronto is growing rapidly. It makes me wonder if Toronto will become known for more than the CN Tower. The 'TORONTO' sign, Dundas Square, City Hall, the street cars, TIFF, and even some things less obvious things like Hudson's Bay might develop into things Americans associate with the city.
I lived in Florida from 87 to 2002 and in those days you heard about Canada about once a year or 2. I moved back to Florida from Canada 2 years ago and I am quite a news junkie, I hear about Canada several times a day, sometimes just an actor talking about doing a movie in Toronto and other times just about anything. Canadians are well respected in the USA from Trudeau on down to just about but not quite Beiber - just kidding Beibs
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  #569  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2016, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
It bears mentioning that in the 80s, twice as many Americans came here as today. So we're building but really just trying to climb back to where we used to be.
Interesting. I never would have thought that. I wonder how Canadians' travel patterns have changed over the same period.
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  #570  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2016, 2:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
I'd say that up until the 'new' Toronto started to emerge over the past two decades, the city did very much have a persona that could be described as uptight and button-down WASP businessman (see John Tory). It wasn't an exciting or alluring persona but it certainly was a persona. "Toronto the Good". "The City That Works". After the war, even as immigrants came into the city from Mediterranean countries, the power, money and influence flowed out of Forest Hill and Rosedale, not College Street or the Danforth (and it still does to a great extent).

These days that persona is still present but getting ever smaller, and the 'new' Toronto is coming to be defined by the yuppie children of Chinese, Filipino, south Asian, Middle Eastern and Caribbean immigrants who have moved into the city from the 905, and who have widely adopted the (obviously less embellished) mannerisms and accent identified in the video that isaidso posted and which is very well portrayed by Drake below:

Video Link
Great video! Thanks!
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  #571  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2016, 2:42 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
You're spot on to point that out. Believe it or not Canada was once the 2nd most visited nation on earth. We owed that lofty position to post war Americans being monied and geography. Canada slowly fell down the rankings but the numbers remained strong.

Americans continued visiting Canada but began to look further afield too. It bears mentioning that in the 80s, twice as many Americans came here as today. So we're building but really just trying to climb back to where we used to be.
Canada should absolutely positively be a huge travel destination for Americans.

Yes they need a passport to come here but they need one to go everywhere else too.
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  #572  
Old Posted Sep 18, 2016, 2:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dreambrother808 View Post
Interesting. I never would have thought that. I wonder how Canadians' travel patterns have changed over the same period.
I have no stats, but I'd assume that Canadians have continued to travel more, both to the USA and elsewhere, although the exchange rate of the $CDN vs $US probably has some impact. Last year, for example, Mexico was a "better buy" than the USA if cost factors in to your winter holiday decisions.
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  #573  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2016, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
You're spot on to point that out. Believe it or not Canada was once the 2nd most visited nation on earth. We owed that lofty position to post war Americans being monied and geography. Canada slowly fell down the rankings but the numbers remained strong.

Americans continued visiting Canada but began to look further afield too. It bears mentioning that in the 80s, twice as many Americans came here as today. So we're building but really just trying to climb back to where we used to be.
The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (Passport rules) imposed by the Department of Homeland Security within the last 10 years significantly reduced the number of Americans travelling to Canada and visa-versa. A larger percentage of Americans than Canadians do not have passports.

It was interesting how the American Government buried the negative statistics on cross-border travel and spending and how they emphasized statistics on petty cross-border entry violations with the guise that it was preventing terrorism.
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  #574  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2016, 12:42 AM
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I know a guy that lives downtown that sounds exactly like that Drake accent. I should ask him if he's from TO.
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  #575  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 4:47 PM
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Uh-oh, spaghetti-oh.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...re-for-people/

Gotta love all the posts about equalization in the comments section! They never miss a beat.
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  #576  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 6:24 PM
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Meh, Denise Balkisoon is a dumba$$. There have been plenty of articles the other way but we in Toronto are not trolling the web with those articles (even some prominent Montrealers say Toronto is better, whether it's their most famous chef or most famous director). Why? Because we know Toronto wipes the floor with Montreal, in every way Quebecers (in particular Montreal chauvinists) need to quit obsessing and hating on Toronto, we don't even think about you, we're making our own moves baby!
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  #577  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 6:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Uh-oh, spaghetti-oh.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opin...re-for-people/

Gotta love all the posts about equalization in the comments section! They never miss a beat.
I thought that was a bad article, indicative of the lazy "what I did for my summer vacation" journalism that the Globe pumps out from its op-ed writers; a reminder of why I don't subscribe to that paper.

It's not because the author dumps on Toronto and elevates Montreal. Quite the contrary.

It's because every Torontonian knows that Montreal has more affordable housing and childcare than Toronto, and those who bicycle in this city are keenly aware of how bad our cycling infrastructure is for a major city, let alone a city that once sang its progressive bona fides from the rooftops. None of this is news.

What would have been more revealing is a more in-depth look into why that's the case. I don't think it's because Torontonians are ignorant about other cities, nor because they are defeatist or masochists. I don't even think it's [primarily] because Ontarians elect Conservative slash-and-burn politicians at inopportune moments. Some of it is a legacy of things that are hard to change.

To take the easiest of those things to change - bicycle infrastructure - Toronto is a hard city to build a bike network in.

For starters, most North American cities that have been successful at building a comprehensive network of separated bike lanes and bike boulevards have a grid, where you can dump the bike lane in a lesser-used side street just off the arterial road. The wonderful bike lane that parallels St. Laurent along Clark would not be feasible paralleling, say, Queen St. Where there is the opportunity to do so - like along Richmond/Adelaide - Toronto city planners have jumped at the bait already.

Also, most of those arterials have streetcar lines cemented into them, so it's not a simple measure of repainting the road and shifting the lanes over a couple of feet. The streetcar system also precludes the ability to convert streets into one ways, so you can't have something like: Clark for bikes, St. Laurent for buses/cars going north, St. Urbain for buses/cars going south.

Finally, those arterials are a lot narrower than they are in Western Canadian cities, so between the streetcar lane and the parking/rush hour lane, there's not much space to squeeze anything in.

There are other political factors like the fact that these things have to be voted on by city councillors, 2/3 of whom are suburbanites, and the whining of local shopowners averse to losing parking spaces, and so on, but those are true of most other cities and probably not insurmountable. It's the built form of Toronto that's challenging.

If that's the challenge facing bike infrastructure - which is entirely local in scope - imagine how difficult it would be to fix housing affordability, which is a perfect storm of forces operating at so many levels: global property markets, interest rates, historical built form, rental laws, etc. Montreal is not that affordable anymore, either.
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  #578  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 7:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Quebecers (in particular Montreal chauvinists) need to quit obsessing and hating on Toronto, we don't even think about you, we're making our own moves baby!
Hum, the article was written by a Torontonian in a Toronto newspaper and posted by a resident of Ottawa.

Also, I don't know a single Montrealer among my friends and relatives who doesn't love Toronto. Seriously.
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  #579  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 8:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mistercorporate View Post
Meh, Denise Balkisoon is a dumba$$. There have been plenty of articles the other way but we in Toronto are not trolling the web with those articles (even some prominent Montrealers say Toronto is better, whether it's their most famous chef or most famous director). Why? Because we know Toronto wipes the floor with Montreal, in every way Quebecers (in particular Montreal chauvinists) need to quit obsessing and hating on Toronto, we don't even think about you, we're making our own moves baby!
Toronto certainly leads the nation when it comes to laughably delusional residents!
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  #580  
Old Posted Jun 30, 2018, 8:44 PM
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Toronto certainly leads the nation when it comes to laughably delusional residents!
Ten years ago Montréal was compared to Toronto as the aging woman against the young hot school girl. I would say that the old woman got much plastic surgery to be a hot cougar and the now young adult has gotten fat and wears fleece pants all day long.
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