Phoenix CityScape Thread

[CANUC]

Originally Posted by PhxPavilion

The BofA tower is 23 floors at 360', the Wachovia tower was originally going to be 26 floors, what about 368' sounds so absurd? If you calculate the height of each floor at those numbers the BofA's is about 15' 5" per floor and Wachovia's would be about 14' per floor assuming it's still 26 floors.

First I’m not doubting the height of the condo/hotel tower as it may never even get built my skepticism was with his information on the Wachovia tower. Yes to me it does sound absurd. First you can’t calculate the numbers the way you did. I’m pretty sure the BofA building does not have 15 foot tall ceilings. It’s the height of the lobby in conjunction with the rest of the floors. Still when you compare it to more recently built office towers the numbers don’t make sense. BofA at 23 stories is 360’, the Sheraton with shorter hotel floors is 31 floors at 360’ and the under construction OCPE is 26 stories at just over 380’ with ten of those floors built with shorter garage heights. If you are going to build a Class-A office tower I doubt you’d build it with floor heights proportional to a hotel. So for me once I doubted his info on the Wachovia tower the rest of his info IMO is suspect.

[gymratmanaz]

At least there is rebar above ground level sticking up out of the hole. It is coming along well....whatever it will be...it is at least happening.

[Urban Rising]

I hate to correct your facts, however OCPE is only 341'-8" in height to the top of structure. You are correct in the building is 26 stories. Additionally both structures (OCPE & Wachovia) include a crown at the top of the building that covers the mechanical equipment. OCPE for example caps out at 320' for the office structure and then continues to its final height including the mechanical screen. The average floor height on OCPE is 13'-3" at the office levels.

Regardless of whether you question the facts. Both buildings will be stunning additions to the Phoenix skyline.

[HX_Guy]

Wow, that seems awfully short for One Central Park East. I remember a article in the paper a while back that pegged it at 383', which is where we had been getting our number from.

It does seem a bit off, especially when you compare it to other recent high-rises such as BofA at 23 floors/360' and Phelps Dodge at 20 floors/289'.

[DER-XE]

Hi all, i am new to this so i will try and keep up and i do have a little insite, which btw is not to diff to get, RED has many local leasing people that have had many many mtgs with local, regional and national tenants and there is a ton of very updated info that can be had on a daily basis........we should expect new retail and restaurant tenant anoun soon, including a major loc restaurant doing a steak/chop house, a large drug store and major soft good urban retail tenants.......park has not slowed to much but has lost apartments, they may not have worked financially, 60 units makes for high rent costs.....AJ's is now one story and half the size........so they went back to drawingboard to re-layout some new 2nd level spaces they have, will most likely be entertainment uses.....but park will look the same from a "layout" of buildings standpoint and can catch up quick as it is only 2 stories and can be build with bricks and sticks.........its exciting to see and hear all the progerss and interest in the project, it has the chance to be very cool

[Vicelord John]

so let me get this straight, they are going to build 2 story buildings on one of the 4 center blocks of the city?... Shame.

[DER-XE]

park can only support up to 6 stories because of crappie underground garage, rt now buildings are 2 stories

[HX_Guy]

Everything just sounds more and more scaled down...I can't believe the AJs will be half the size, it was already something like half the size of a normal sized AJs, now it will basically be 1/4 the size of one.

I don't even know how I feel about it. On one side, it completely sucks that the bare minimum is being built, but on the other side, with the way things are going economically and such, it's amazing that anything is being built at all.

[DER-XE]

that may have sounded wrong........half the size of the 2 story original.......so 10000sf v. 20000sf.........and only one story..........i think anything is better than nothing, in mast cases

[CANUC]

Originally Posted by Urban Rising

I hate to correct your facts, however OCPE is only 341'-8" in height to the top of structure. You are correct in the building is 26 stories. Additionally both structures (OCPE & Wachovia) include a crown at the top of the building that covers the mechanical equipment. OCPE for example caps out at 320' for the office structure and then continues to its final height including the mechanical screen. The average floor height on OCPE is 13'-3" at the office levels.

Regardless of whether you question the facts. Both buildings will be stunning additions to the Phoenix skyline.

I would take your information more seriously if you could just cite some of your sources e.g. permits, press releases, advertisements, industry newsletters etc. My reason for continued skepticism; you have stated in a very specific, down to inches, the heights of three buildings many on this forum have been watching closely. Yet most have been unable to secure the very figures you provided with the exception of OCPE which you know have stated is incorrect. My points:
• BofA is 23 floors at 360’ and comparable in height to other recently completed office buildings. From this it is reasonable to calculate the height of future office building such as the Wachovia tower.
• You claim OCPE is actually topping out at 320’ and reaches 341’-8” to the top of the mechanical screen. However FAA permits showed the tower crane reaching 440’ and when compared to 44 Monroe the tower crane only reached 438’ yet 44 Monroe reached 378’ in height. Why would they need so much clearance for the tower crane if the building itself is a full 100 feet shorter?
• Sources? I understand you state you cannot for whatever reason divulge your position but seeing as to how you have made some pretty tantalizing statements and understanding this is an anonymous forum with faceless members I don’t see the risk in directing others to your source of information or providing something more tangible than simply saying “I’m right your wrong”?

[AZ KID]

I find it incredibly hard to believe that OCPE will only be 341' feet. Although after looking at many pictures and comparing what has been built to what is going to be built it looks like it might not reach 385 or whatever the original thought was.

[plinko]

Interesting. I think we'd all taken the 383' figure for OCPE because that was all we had.

BUT, for those of you who don't like math:
9 parking floors at 10'-6" + 17 office floors at 13'-3" + 21'-8" for mechanical screen = 341'-8"

Disappointing that it is that short. It's still a lovely building. I thought it had higher than normal (like 15') floor to floor heights because they were going for LEED certification. I'm likely wrong about that.

Urban Rising, can you do a similar breakdown for the two Citiscape towers?

Methinks you work for one of the exterior or structural subcontractors on the job. You don't have to say, but thanks so much for the great info. Most of the press people (and realtors and developer people) tend to not pay attention to those details so much. That and they get a number from an early scheme and that's the number that gets repeated and repeated and repeated, despite the fact that it is wrong.

CANUC, if you don't believe him, take yourself down to the city Building Department and ask for permit information. It's public record and both are current projects so it should be no problem.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a sidenote, building two story buildings on the datum block of the city is f*cking travesty. What a waste. A 10,000sf AJ's? That's tiny! Entertainment uses? The Arizona Center and Collier Center already have enough of that crap. Yea! Another meat market club with uber sushi and $12 beers!

[Vicelord John]

Originally Posted by plinko

Yea! Another meat market club with uber sushi and $12 beers!

I'd be fine with that as it is something we actually do not have as of now.

[kevininlb]

Originally Posted by DER-XE

that may have sounded wrong........half the size of the 2 story original.......so 10000sf v. 20000sf.........and only one story..........i think anything is better than nothing, in mast cases

The average Fresh & Easy is about 10000 square feet, so this doesn't sound bad and actually makes a lot of sense.

[RichTempe]

Originally Posted by kevininlb

The average Fresh & Easy is about 10000 square feet, so this doesn't sound bad and actually makes a lot of sense.

All things considered, I'd rather it was a Fresh & Easy instead of AJ's in the first place.

[neworleans]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

All things considered, I'd rather it was a Fresh & Easy instead of AJ's in the first place.

AJ's is more well known though

[PHX NATIVE 929]

Originally Posted by neworleans

AJ's is more well known though

Huh? In Phoenix maybe. Tesco is a wee bit bigger than Bashas...

[HX_Guy]

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929

Huh? In Phoenix maybe. Tesco is a wee bit bigger than Bashas...

And what city is this project in again? I personally think AJ's is a great choice, nice to have local representation in our own downtown.

[andrewkfromaz]

How do you delete posts? I didn't realize I wasn't at the end of the thread yet...