Transit Fantasies

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

omg!!!

whats funny is some of it is true...

Yeah... like Navel Girl, Snot Paper (near Hospital), All bum Co. (New West), Coincidental Sewer Terms (DES)...

[worldwide]

the only accurate one is royal oak

[Bureaucromancer]

Originally Posted by djh

Now if somebody could turn Lightrail's topological map into a google map, we could see it relative to the road maps and major destinations. That would be amazing!

Here you go. Obviously the rapid bus routes are best guesses, but I think that its pretty close to what Lightrail was thinking. http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...9,1.768799&z=9

Personally, I'd also like to see the additonal rapid busses Lightrail mentioned later, and a cross harbour tunnel for the Howe Sound service ending at Pacific Central Station (although not an immediate priority, so maybe it shouldn't be on this map). A peak only extension of one of the WCE lines to Chiliwack also seems worthwhile. As for streetcars, I fully support the project, but it should probably stay a purely City of Vancouver project; yes, Translink should operate it, but this isn't something thats in any way regional, and that puts it off this map in a perfectly reasonable way. Finally, should the Port Mann bus perhaps run to Langley before moving north to the TCH?

The only other things I'd really like to see are the 41st and Hastings rapid busses operated with trolleys. They both would both need major extensions, but about half of each route is already wired. Add to that a Marine drive trolley (strategic reasoning, ties together all the southern trolley loops) and conversion of the Stanley Park internal shuttle to trolley service and you can justify a second order of "BRT" styled trolleys buses.

PS, the other thing that strikes me about a cross harbour tunnel is that VIA could then run real service to Prince George; hopefully extending on the Alaska Railroad to Whitehorse, Fairbanks and Anchorage if we ever get around to building the Alaska connection.

Oh, and finally, with a tunnel, wouldn't frequent service to Horsehoe Bay, connecting to the existing ferry make more sense for Langdale, and maybe even Bowen? I like the idea of direct service from Downtown, but have two big questions: should we really try to combine Langdale and Bowen Island routes and do we really want to market such a limited service as Seabus? I'd call Park Royal Seabus and run it about ever half hour, but the Sunshine coast thing seems much more commuter oriented, better to call it something else I think.

[spitkicker08]

i don't think they can run the 41st rapid bus on trolly. the future underground bus loop cannot accommodate trolly busses. the existing routes will be left above ground for the time being but will eventually all trolly routes to ubc will terminate before crossing into ubc and people will have to transfer.

[deasine]

Running 41 on trolley is better than running trolley RapidBus on 41st Avenue

[arashi_1987]

Hey everyone, vancouver is back today (the rain) which means time to sit at home and doodle:



I've only had time to do the downtown portion so far...I don't know how to use Photoshop properly so I am having a hard time drawing this stuff.

My fantasy map will have a very extensive network throughout Vancouver as you can probably guess from the many lines going into Downtown Vancouver. Go densification!!

Some things to note

1) Burrard and Granville will become 1 mega station with some underground mall in place connecting the 2

2) There's still the WCE from Waterfront...I just forgot to draw it in.

3) I also have some streetcars or trams in mind on 6 routes within downtown to make up for the gaps in between

It's my first attempt so I would appreciate your comments!!

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by arashi_1987

Hey everyone, vancouver is back today (the rain) which means time to sit at home and doodle:



I've only had time to do the downtown portion so far...I don't know how to use Photoshop properly so I am having a hard time drawing this stuff.

My fantasy map will have a very extensive network throughout Vancouver as you can probably guess from the many lines going into Downtown Vancouver. Go densification!!

Some things to note

1) Burrard and Granville will become 1 mega station with some underground mall in place connecting the 2

2) There's still the WCE from Waterfront...I just forgot to draw it in.

3) I also have some streetcars or trams in mind on 6 routes within downtown to make up for the gaps in between

It's my first attempt so I would appreciate your comments!!

Well, nice job... but a few comments.

The likelihood of the M-Line going from VCC and turning North to go downtown along Granville is unlikely... at least as an extension of the M-Line it's unlikely. You MAY see an extension of a street car across granville, but your diagram shows it as the M-Line.

The M-Line IS the UBC line. Users will have to transfer.

The downtown Pink line is interesting. Vancouver used to have a transit line along that path a little over 20 years ago (well, to the foot of Granville). It was sold, however, and now it's here. The Hastings line is somewhere on the roadmap I'm sure. However, who knows when. I always wondered where they would put a stop for Stanley Park. I'd imagine it would have to be near the entrance of the park, or the east side of the Aquarium. Also, I'm not sure how the Canada line would get across Burrard Inlet. I doubt they'd plonk a bridge there (EXPENSIVE) and a tunnel would be expensive and require the current station to be a LOT deeper than it currently is.

I also wouldn't terminate the Hastings line at Nanaimo. I'd take it to the Coliseum. I wouldn't go much further than that, however, for phase I of it.

[punkster1982]

wrt to a Park Royal seabus, Translink did studies a few years ago on the feasibility of it and (surprisingly) it couldn't compete time wise with buses over the Lions Gate. I'd be curious if limited water service from Park Royal to say Kits or something could work and avoid downtown altogether.

[fever]

Originally Posted by punkster1982

wrt to a Park Royal seabus, Translink did studies a few years ago on the feasibility of it and (surprisingly) it couldn't compete time wise with buses over the Lions Gate. I'd be curious if limited water service from Park Royal to say Kits or something could work and avoid downtown altogether.

I remember that being in some study, maybe the same one. I can't find it right now, though.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by punkster1982

wrt to a Park Royal seabus, Translink did studies a few years ago on the feasibility of it and (surprisingly) it couldn't compete time wise with buses over the Lions Gate. I'd be curious if limited water service from Park Royal to say Kits or something could work and avoid downtown altogether.

Not too surprising given the speed of those boats and the distance traveled. In addition, The Seabus terminals are away from the main streets.

[AKA-007]

I have my own transit fantacy:

some of those moving sidewalks they have in airports at the vancouver side of the seabus.

[arashi_1987]

Originally Posted by tintinium

Well, nice job... but a few comments.

The likelihood of the M-Line going from VCC and turning North to go downtown along Granville is unlikely... at least as an extension of the M-Line it's unlikely. You MAY see an extension of a street car across granville, but your diagram shows it as the M-Line.

The M-Line IS the UBC line. Users will have to transfer.

The downtown Pink line is interesting. Vancouver used to have a transit line along that path a little over 20 years ago (well, to the foot of Granville). It was sold, however, and now it's here. The Hastings line is somewhere on the roadmap I'm sure. However, who knows when. I always wondered where they would put a stop for Stanley Park. I'd imagine it would have to be near the entrance of the park, or the east side of the Aquarium. Also, I'm not sure how the Canada line would get across Burrard Inlet. I doubt they'd plonk a bridge there (EXPENSIVE) and a tunnel would be expensive and require the current station to be a LOT deeper than it currently is.

I also wouldn't terminate the Hastings line at Nanaimo. I'd take it to the Coliseum. I wouldn't go much further than that, however, for phase I of it.

Thanks for the comments!!

Just to make things clearer for my map. The M-Line extension I have proposed from VCC actually will run under (or beside) Burrard Bridge rather than Granville.

I actually have something else in mind for the UBC line which will run through Commercial (it will all be clearer when I have to time to finish the rest of the map). So the common concept of M-line extending from VCC to UBC won't apply on my fantasy map.

Yeah the Stanley Park stop probably can't be too far into the park anyway (protect the park!) and I actually drew the station next to the aquarium on the google map (which reminds me i can put that link up as well).

As for the tunnel to the north shore...I know it's probably going to cost a fortune and not very feasible but...you never know what can happen in the distant future! And I do love the seabus =)

And the East West line along Hastings doesn't actually stop at Nanaimo, it just happens to be the next stop after the one shown on the map i posted.

Maybe we can discuss more when I have the complete map ready!

[Distill3d]

Originally Posted by AKA-007

I have my own transit fantacy:

some of those moving sidewalks they have in airports at the vancouver side of the seabus.

mine includes a tube system ala Futurama...but...

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by Distill3d

mine includes a tube system ala Futurama...but...

the thing i've wondered about that tube system....how do you choose your stop?

[AKA-007]

Originally Posted by eduardo88

the thing i've wondered about that tube system....how do you choose your stop?

They explained it in the first episode. You say your destination when you enter the tube and it takes you there, kind of like a taxi.

[arashi_1987]

I decided to upload the rest of my fantasy map (without the nicer looking photoshop finish though unfortunately). Here it goes (click thumbnail then click "All Sizes" on Flickr to see pictures in full):

Overview Map showing most lines and their terminal stations



1. Express Lines (Very high speed commuter rail)
Valley Express (South Cambie to Chilliwack)
Mission Express (Waterfront to Mission...named changed from West Coast Express)



2. Expo Line (Waterfront to Langley Town Centre)

-above-ground except where it already is underground



3. Millenium Line (Waterfront to 22nd Street via Granville Island, Brentwood, Lougheed)

-Trains would U-turn at tracks between Edmonds and 22nd
-Underground in downtown section



4. North-South Line (Upper Lonsdale to Steveston via Waterfront)

-Renamed from Canada Line cuz...I simply hated the name from the very beginning =)

-unbelievably long and costly tunnel to North Van
-underground except in Richmond



5. Nevergr...Evergreen Line (Lougheed to Haney Place)



6. UBC Line (Commercial to UBC)

-completely underground
-maybe better named Broadway Line
-subject to further revision...I haven't quite made up my mind whether to extend the line east of Commercial...if the city ever drastically densifies!



7. Westminster Line (UBC to New Westminster via Kerrisdale, Central Park, Middlegate)

-mostly underground



8. Downtown Line (Denman to Gastown)



9. Second Narrows Line (Metrotown to 24th St West Van)

-above ground except underground where it intersects M-Line at Brentwood



10. Victoria Line (North Commercial to South Cambie)



11. Arbutus Line (Waterfront to South Cambie via Kerrisdale)



12. East-West Line (Stanley Park to Port Coquitlam Central)



13. Surrey LRT (Fleetwood to Newton via Guildford, Surrey Central, Scottsdale)

-sprawl is not transit friendly

[Bureaucromancer]

There hasn't been much talk about the trolleybusses in here so I thought I'd bring them up in their own post. Basically I've been thinking about what could be done to make the network fit into the overall system better, and in so doing (hopefully) ensure we don't have any questions about preserving trolleys next time new busses are needed. On the preservation theme, it also wouldn't hurt their prospects that a second order would be needed to do this, spreading the fleet age out a bit.

Anyway, http://tinyurl.com/5pqby9 is what I've come up with. There are certainly other possibilities for conversion, but I really was trying to limit myself to building a better network, rather than recomending a general conversion of heavily used routes (not a bad idea, but not what I'm going for). The Stanley Park thing is just a conversion of the existing shuttle, and isn't included in my estimate of the route miles, it should probably not be paid for by Translink anyway (I would do it the same way I would the downtown streetcar, city built, city owned and city funded but contracted to Translink for operations). Really it just bugs me to have diesel buses running through the park when we have a wire connection already, and I HATE those faux streetcar bus things (even worse here in Toronto where Grey line runs the things along real streetcar lines *sigh*).

The only thing I'm not convinced of is the route across the Second Narrows (do people here think its possible to get wires onto the bridge?), but the connection up Willingdon seems important, and is hard to justify without going to Capilano, so I put it it. The whole thing comes to about 90km of new wire, plus about another 10 if you continue the quad wire on Hastings, so I suspect the infrastructure cost would only be around 100 million.

Aside from that, I would keep all the routes that get duplicated by SkyTrain extensions as local service (Cambie is already secure, so mostly this applies to Broadway with a U line), reconvert 41st to trolley operation (pretty obvious when you see the map, but not actually included since wires are still in place, and not going anywhere anytime soon) and run the B Lines with trolleys where possible (SFU and 41st, as well as UBC untill the SkyTrain line is built) Thoughts and comments?

PS, for anyone who missed the URL in all the text, here it is again:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&...8,0.11055&z=13

[deasine]

Originally Posted by Bureaucromancer

The only thing I'm not convinced of is the route across the Second Narrows (do people here think its possible to get wires onto the bridge?), but the connection up Willingdon seems important, and is hard to justify without going to Capilano, so I put it it. The whole thing comes to about 90km of new wire, plus about another 10 if you continue the quad wire on Hastings, so I suspect the infrastructure cost would only be around 100 million.

With trolley wires, your bus can only operate a certain speed before they dewire. So, placing wires across a freeway bridge isn't the best idea.

[fever]

The speed limit on the Second Narrows is only 70 km/h, isn't it? Only 10 km/h more than the Granville bridge. Still questionable.

Those are some good route choices, btw. You've put the trolleys mostly on routes with steep hills where electrics would outperform diesels.

[deasine]

Originally Posted by fever

The speed limit on the Second Narrows is only 70 km/h, isn't it? Only 10 km/h more than the Granville bridge. Still questionable.

Those are some good route choices, btw. You've put the trolleys mostly on routes with steep hills where electrics would outperform diesels.

Oh is it? I thought it was more... =P See clearly I'm not a driver.